I'm thinking it was supposed to be a plains.Originally Posted by Woe_Bringer
Sorry, I recently had a water hazard at my house and my Plains all look like Islands...
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Qweerios, how are the Storm and Show and Tell matchups?
This is what I'm thinking of playing for Champs. It's got a few things that are a little different about it. Interested to hear your thoughts.
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Burning Wish
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Slaughter Games
4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badlands
3 Mountain
3 Bayou
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
//SB
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Scapeshift
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Slaughter Games
Catalog of changes:
-1 Phyrexian Tower +1 Bayou
Reduces variance. Phyrexian Tower is a high-variance power-play enabliing turn 2 stupidity. The BUG Pod list without Tower got me thinking, though, what else are we using Tower for, really? There have been some extreme corner cases with Reanimator + Tower to trigger multiple Explorers ending in a kill chain, but more often than not, I think that I would just rather have better mana. There have been a few times since shaving down to 2 Bayous where I've felt like I wanted a 3rd, so that's where I'm angling at the moment.
Also, note that I'm back on the 3rd basic Mountain at the moment. I'm still torn between this and the 3rd fetch. For Champs, I think that the 3rd Fetch will probably get the nod. For DC, though, once more testing has been done with From the Ashes, we might want the 3rd mountain more.
-2 flex spot +2 Slaughter Games
Yes, maindeck. I'm forecasting a heavy combo/control-tempo dichotomy at Champs, and Slaughter Games is good against both (well, not tempo, but meh. if people are playing a lot of Miracles, I want them there, too). Sneak Attack is, once again, very well positioned, and I don't feel like having a worse matchup against that than necessary. I considered the Thoughtseize option, but decided that that just isn't hateful enough. I don't feel like losing to RIP/Helm. I don't feel like losing to Sneak Attack. I don't feel like losing to [random combo deck x]. Get [key combo card Y] out of your deck, and fuck off while we're at it.
I wouldn't have considered this except that I've been testing the From the Ashes in these slots, and I realized that there's something to be said for Scapewish being a super hateful deck. This deck is already an asshole, and can be made even more so pretty readily. It has the raw power to punch through most random fair/aggro decks, and my losses tend to be Miracles players who sandbag the combo and then unleashed it at 7 mana, and legit combo decks.
It's also worth noting that it opens up a bit of sideboard room.
Speaking of.
Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Scapeshift
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Slaughter Games
A Slaughter Games stays in the board as a wish target.
The pair of Rakdos's Returns switch with the Slaughter Games against non-combo decks, since Return is good against basically everything that Games is bad against. Toxic Deluge is a strict upgrade for Virtue's Ruin / Perish, as previously noted. Two Carpet of Flowers to help shore up blue combo and Delver tempo decks, as well as to come in in lieu of 2 Explorers against basic-heavy blue control (aka, the same purpose that they have everywhere). Also, the thought of fueling a big Rakdos's Return with a Carpet gets me excited.
I'm still unsure about some of these changes (like cutting the Reanimate, which makes logical sense but I have an irrational fear that it's going to bite me in the ass), but from a theoretical standpoint they make sense, and from an expected meta standpoint they make sense. Interested to hear thoughts.
The lack of a Tower wasn't ever a problem. I enjoyed the added consistency that the fetchland provided. Basically, looking back, all my losses were to mana screw, so anything to help that would be great. The sideboard helped with the combo matchups a lot.
Sea Gate vs. Wood elves - I agree Sea Gate could be good, however Wood Elves is a lot better than you are giving it credit for. The ability to ramp a land into play is quite relevant even if you haven't missed a land drop. It can let you fire off a therapy or activate a pod or have a deathrite activation open. But Sea Gate is blue and has a moderately better power/toughness so I could see it.
The jitte is great in any grindy creature based matchup. Shardless, RUG, Jund, Elves. You have all these extra creatures lying around like baleful strix and explorer, suiting those up with a jitte just creatures a huge incremental advantage every turn. You don't want to risk having a second I don't think since it can be a dead card, but it creates a huge advantage when it connects in the right matchups.
Yeah I was debating between 2/2/2 and 3/2/1, ultimately I went with the three forests just because they cast the most important cards in the deck - Explorer, GSZ and Shaman. Those can then get you the blue you need afterwards. That's the theory anyway.
Envelop is run over Swan Song because you are often boarding in Riptide Pilferer in the matchups where you bring it in, and the swan blocks and kills the poor pilferer so that really isn't an option. Envelop counters basically everything you want anyway except Sneak Attack itself. I wouldn't want to board in either card against BUG (I assume you mean shardless but tempo BUG would be the same). It's just too conditional. I only want it if the sorcery they are planning to cast is one that will kill me by itself (reanimate, show and tell, infernal tutor).
It seems far too conditional and slow against the combo decks you've mentioned. BUG doesn't need the help, though it's a blowout when it happens. Miracles and deathblade seem more reasonable, though if they have an active jitte going Notion Thief looks pretty awful. So I would be excited to sideboard it in about 1 out of the 5 matchups you mentioned. Doesn't seem worth an SB slot if that's the case.I tested different versions of Pod (BUG and Junk to be exact). I thought Notion Thief out of the board was actually quite relevant in several matchups such as SnT, ANT, TES, BUG, Miracles, and even Deathblade.
This makes more sense in a list running Academy Rector. In the list I ran, I was on the fence about running one, but I definitely wouldn't run 2, even if it weren't legendary.Phyrexian Tower is also very good and I would definitely play more than 1 copy if it wasn't Legendary.
You make some good points about not wanting to trade away strix. I haven't tried the white version so I guess I can't say for sure. However, Strix was extremely good, and traded with a few other cards you didn't mention like Tombstalker and Tarmogoyf. And while the point of the card may not be to trade with Delver, it's a nice option to have, one that Wall of Blossoms doesn't give you. This does make me want to find room for 1 Wall of Blossoms though to GSZ for.1) Strix isn't strictly superior to Wall of Blossoms, and is arguably worst for a Pod deck. Strix costs GB in a green-centric deck, it makes you more susceptible to land hate. Strix's strengths are in his ability to slow the pace of the game down and cantrip while providing a Pod body (value and CA). However, Pod decks don't necessarily want to trade their bodies with every swinging creature no matter the favorable exchange it may encounter because we need the 2 CMC body to convert it into a 3 CMC one and so on and so forth. What we are after when the time comes to play 2drops is time. Wall of Blossoms is Bolt/Grim-proof, blocks first strikers such as Thalia, and doesn't trade with Lackeys, Snapcasters, Mongoose, etc. Of course it doesn't block Delver, but that is not the purpose of a 2drop cantripping body in a Pod deck. Being GSZ-able is also very important considering every time I had a Pod in play with an empty board and would GSZ a Blossom, draw a card, and pod it out for a Witness or Bone Shredder and completely turn the game around. It is also nice to GSZ for a cantripping body when digging for a Land, Decay, Pod, or anything really.
I wouldn't want to play 4 Birthing Pods in the deck even if I wasn't playing Brainstorm. It's not a card you want multiples of until much later in the game (and even then not really necessary). Decay is another card I didn't really miss that much. It is more necessary if you are playing Wall of Blossoms over Strix and need something to handle Tarmgoyfs and Delvers. GSZ is pretty good and I could see running a few more of those. The brainstorms are more for the SB Force of Will plan than the Strix's. I have to admit I wasn't that impressed with brainstorm in this deck as I've been in some others. Still, it's a pretty great card overall.2) Cutting GSZ, Pods, and Decays for Brainstorm unnecessarily stretches you thin on colors. Compare it to splashing blue in Maverick for Brainstorm. Maverick is entirely capable of splashing another color, and Brainstorm is a good card. However, the costs of splashing into blue for a card you probably want to use on T2 are too great and including Brainstorm forces you to dilute the core of the deck. 4 Moms, and 4 GSZ is much more consistent than 3 Moms, 1 GSZ, and 4 Brainstorm will ever be. When I compare playing BUG to Junk Pod, it feels like Brainstorm is there because I play Strix > Blossoms, and because I find myself digging for colors more often than I should if I didn't have Brainstorm and Strix in the first place. The notion that you need Brainstorm to reshuffle Pod targets is negligible in practice because it is often easier to cast non-green creatures than it is to brainstorm them away to Pod into them;
I agree that white offers some pretty good targets. Harmonic Sliver would be amazing. Slime costs a lot, though blowing up Creeping Tar Pits was nice. Academy Rector is a great card, but gets a bit less exciting with all these deathrites running around since the trigger can be fizzled by it. Reveillark doesn't really seem like something the deck needs, although it is obviously a good card. I think you get plenty of card advantage once the engine gets going, lark or not. I have to flat disagree with you about Shriekmaw. I found the card to be quite good at both 5 and 2 mana. Sun Titan is another upgrade that functionally does not matter. It might be better by a little bit, but at that point in the game is almost certainly irrelivant, either of them is going to beat the opponent quite handily. Glen Elendra is amazing against combo. Most of them really have no way to win around it once it gets on board. The white options are good here as well, so I don't know which is better, but again being blue lets you run Force of Will. I don't really like Gilded Drake but Sower was incredible for me on the weekend. It's just a good card with or without Pod, which is a nice feature to have.3) Blue creatures as Pod targets are generally weaker than their white equivalent in terms of power and synergy. There are no equivalents to Qasali Pridemage and Harmonic Sliver in blue, and Acidic Slime is grossly overpriced. There is no equivalent to Academy Rector -> Nightmare/Deed at 4 CMC. Orzhov Pontiff has no equivalent either and he is extremely powerful (will be even more so when Nemesis is out). There is no equivalent to Reveillark and Shriekmaw is atrocious at 5 CMC. Sun Titan is superior to Grave Titan in almost every scenario. Glen Elandra and Swan Song compete with Canonist, Thalia, Teeg, and Sin Collector. Phantasmal Image is good but often competes with Restoration Angel. There are no counterparts to Sower and Gilded Drake but Redcap, Shredder, Fleshbag, are acceptable replacements and more often than not, are better.
Anyway the white version seems good too and you make some good arguments for it. I'll try it out if I get the chance. However the blue version with the updated sideboard impressed me a lot when I played it over the weekend.
RE: Kevin
Maindeck: This is a really interesting and aggressive anti-combo change. I like it, particularly if you expect a lot of Sneak/Show at those events, which given the Invitational results would not surprise me. It does make your tempo matchups game 1 a bit worse, but we're already favored there, so that seems fine. It might convince me to go back to 61 cards, since the 3rd Scapeshift is probably not strictly necessary. I might even consider relegating the 3rd Deed to the sideboard to make room. Removing Phyrexian Tower is something I've thought about before, whenever it being a colorless land mattered, but then I'd have games where it was the stone nuts, so I'm still not entirely sold on that. I will be keeping an eye on how often I want the 3rd Bayou, however, and for the sake of consistency I may end up making that swap. I'd like to make a point that losing Tower does make it harder to beat Jitte or Batterskull without a Deed, since you can't block-sac with your Wood Elves, wolf tokens, etc. That might not be important enough to make it get the nod over the Bayou, but that's been a big point in favor of Tower for me so I figure it's worth mentioning.
The sideboard changes I'm not as sure about. Losing Reanimate- sure. Seems fine, especially with all the Deathrites everywhere. It really didn't come up very often anyway. Carpets, I know they're really good, especially against RUG and UWR, and it's nice to have something else to do against Miracles/Omni when you need to bring out Explorers. I definitely want them against Omni and Miracles, since they let us keep more hands by giving more ways to get to Slaughter Games. But, are they enough better than the 4th copy of Games, additional Thoughtseizes or Red Blasts? My instinct is probably, but I'm not sure.
I'm pretty uncomfortable with Rakdos' Return, however. I recognize that it's a pretty powerful card, but at the same time I really don't think it's targeted enough. I don't want this card against UWR Delver, I'd rather be able to bring in a Pyroclasm and leave one in the board so I'm sure I don't die to their Geists, or am able to answer a turn 2 Mystic. I'd rather bring in Carpet against RUG. I don't like our game against Elves with that card in the board, because we've lost the flex spot you've used Charms and I've been using Clasms in. Basically I feel like rather than a card that's blanket decent against a lot of the field, I'd rather be able to bring in something more matchup-specific. The exception here being Shardless, because that's the deck I'd want Return against the most, but our matchup against Shardless is already really good, right? So I just don't think it's an optimal card to have there.
You've definitely got me thinking though. I'm going to try the maindeck Games tonight, going to 61 cards and cutting the 3rd Scapeshift from the main, with the following sideboard:
2 REB
2 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet
1 Innocent Blood
1 Scapeshift
1 Reverent Silence
2 Pyroclasm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Virtue's Ruin (which WILL become Toxic Deluge when it's released, it is just better)
1 Rakdos' Return (so I actually get testing with the card and can talk about it from experience- If I don't like it, I don't know what this will want to be)
1 Slaughter Games
Sounds good, Sam -- let us know how it goes tomorrow. My local is Vintage tonight, so I probably won't get anything meaningful in.
Storm is better than when I played BUG, and SnT is atrocious. Well, the only experience I've had with SnT decks was with BUG pod online, which was tight but I won the majority. As for real life play, I had already settled on the Junk version knowing that SnT was going to be hard. Over the last 2 tournaments I lost to Sneak Show in amazingly unfortunate circumstances. For example, I can empty my opponent's hand by T2-3, play Sin Collector and flash a Restoration Angel on it, put my opponent in lethal range, extract SnT, and GSZ for Teeg. However, each and every time I did that (consistently in every 5 games I played), my opponent would be left with a Through the Breach in hand and would topdeck a Grisselbrand the turn before I would play a Teeg. I could put my opponent to 2 life with a Sneak Attack in play, discard his entire hand and put him on a lethal 2 turn clock regardless of if he swings with a single Emrakul/Grisselbrand, but he would simply draw Emrakul and Grisselbrand in a row and sneak for lethal on his last turn. This matchup is almost impossible to manage when the game begins with a Leyline of Sanctity. I also have no outs to a resolved Grisselbrand.
@GtF,
Notion Thief isn't too slow for combo decks. It is a singleton that will give you a soft-lock. This deck has no problems whatsoever in slowing the pace of a combo matchup. Its difficulty lies in reliably preventing your opponent from going off when you are out of disruption and your opponent is given a few turns to recover. Glen Elandra isn't too slow either, in fact, she is one of your main and only lock-piece. While Glen invalidates enablers, Notion Thief invalidates cantrips. Thief is also more easily played from your hand than Glen. All you need to really appreciate Notion Thief is a story, that one time where he gave you a game you had absolutely no business winning. Notion Thief is one of the most rewarding creatures I have ever played, and as a SB silver bullet against very real common threats (AV, Jace, Brainstorm, Strix, Ponder, Sylvan Library(Yes it works)), he deserves his slot.
I don't understand why you wouldn't play 4 Pods. Having 2 Pods is better than having none as this is a Pod deck and we play a lot of sub-par cards that become exponentially better with an active Pod. Resolving a Pod generally propels you in a situation where you can abuse a second one, and 2 active Pods beat 1 any day. Against decks with counterspells, Pods are also prime targets, and boy are there a lot of decks with counterspells out there. Having a backup Pod for those situations is a life saver.
I also have mixed feelings about Reveillark but it does provide the most value for the mana. It has a "leave play" ability like Thragtusk that will proactively counter removal and sweepers. It also has a nice 4/3 Flying body that allowed me to close a lot of games. Poding into Reveillark offers a lot more inevitability and value than a Thragtusk because it generally brings back a combination of Redcap, Witness, Blossoms, or DRS into play upon removal or being Poded out for a Sun Titan or a Grave Titan. I like Shriekmaw a lot because it embodies a lot of what a Pod decks need: A specific mana cost, an advantageous EtB ability, early game application, and it is very zone flexible (GY or Board). What I dislike about Shriekmaw is that it has a low impact for a 5CMC card and is mostly available through Pod. It is the combination of his scarce accessibility (cannot be GSZ'd), low impact compared to his alternatives (Shredder@3 > Shriek@5 for Pod, Decay > Terror and Thrag/Rev > Shriek), that makes its opportunity cost too great.
Grave Titan and Sun Titan are both good with respect to what they do. I still juggle back and forth between the two, and so far Sun has the edge. When it comes to their mana cost, Grave Titan is more accessible. I used to play Grave > Sun for consistency. However, in practice when the time comes to play a 6drop, preparing WW vs. BB is a small leap, therefore it is negligible.
Another thing to keep in mind is that this card is our be-all, end-all solution to clogged boards. Grave Titan is raw, unadulterated size (a big Goyf). He can break through a lot of boards, but when he doesn't, you are shit out of luck. In my experience with Grave I would often be faced with cards like Batterskull equipped on Thalias, Wurmcoil Engines, and active Jittes that I could not always punch through. Grave Titan is also vulnerable to StP and leaves you with 2/2's while your opponent usually has a Batterskull or some other threat nearby. Sun Titan however, will allow you to re-use your previous cards to unmake any board position your opponent has mustered up. Instead of 2 zombie tokens, it usually gives you a Blossoms, a Witness, a Deed, a Nightmare, a Finks, and most often: a Shredder or a Harmonic Sliver. Shredder's echo cost is a boon here as it allows you to cast a Terror per turn while you swing with your Vigilant Titan. Vigilance is almost always better than Deathtouch for a 6/6. Yes it is vulnerable to GY hate, but the benefits are much greater. When Sun Titan is removed, he often left something more valuable than a pair of 2/2s behind.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
@Qweerios
My impression is that combo decks spend the first few turns cantripping,then they won't be doing it so much after that unless they got a really bad draw. After they're all done, you can play Notion Thief, but isn't the damage mostly done at that point?Notion Thief isn't too slow for combo decks. It is a singleton that will give you a soft-lock. This deck has no problems whatsoever in slowing the pace of a combo matchup. Its difficulty lies in reliably preventing your opponent from going off when you are out of disruption and your opponent is given a few turns to recover. Glen Elandra isn't too slow either, in fact, she is one of your main and only lock-piece. While Glen invalidates enablers, Notion Thief invalidates cantrips. Thief is also more easily played from your hand than Glen. All you need to really appreciate Notion Thief is a story, that one time where he gave you a game you had absolutely no business winning. Notion Thief is one of the most rewarding creatures I have ever played, and as a SB silver bullet against very real common threats (AV, Jace, Brainstorm, Strix, Ponder, Sylvan Library(Yes it works)), he deserves his slot.
I actually think it's those "stories" about Notion Thief that make it overrated. One time it will be a blowout but will that make up for all those times it replaced another card in your sideboard that could have helped you win more matches? You may be right and I haven't played with it enough, but pretty much every other card has proved its worth more than Notion Thief at this point. As for combo decks recovering, Glen Elendra and Riptide Pilferer make that pretty much impossible. So there's no need to try and "get them" on their cantrips with the way the rest of the deck is configured. Being able to beat white leyline is great.
I wouldn't play 4 pods because they do nothing until the midgame and are useless without a creature in play. The deck is already full of cards like that, so I'd like to play as few as I need. Once it gets going, sure it's good to have another, but it's really not necessary at that point. The deck is good at dragging out a game and giving you time to find a pod. The deck has 4 cabal therapies so counterspells are not really an issue imo. The blue version also has Brainstorm so it has more ways to find Pod when it's needed. If I weren't playing Brainstorm, then I guess I'd have to play 4, but I wouldn't be happy about it.I don't understand why you wouldn't play 4 Pods. Having 2 Pods is better than having none as this is a Pod deck and we play a lot of sub-par cards that become exponentially better with an active Pod. Resolving a Pod generally propels you in a situation where you can abuse a second one, and 2 active Pods beat 1 any day. Against decks with counterspells, Pods are also prime targets, and boy are there a lot of decks with counterspells out there. Having a backup Pod for those situations is a life saver.
I won't argue that Reveillark might be better than Thragtusk or that Sun Titan is better than Grave Titan. The idea of Sun Titan'ing back a Pernicious Deed sounds amazing. My main point though is that adding the blue gives the deck a lot more flexibility and a better combo matchup. Meanwhile the other matchups, while not as dominated by the Pod deck, are still good. So even if you don't win those games as hard, you'll still win. The two cards are also better if a Deathrite Shaman has been nibbling away at the graveyard, which is something that seems like it happens a lot in legacy. The other clogged board states you describe can be handled with pod activations for specific targets.I also have mixed feelings about Reveillark but it does provide the most value for the mana. It has a "leave play" ability like Thragtusk that will proactively counter removal and sweepers. It also has a nice 4/3 Flying body that allowed me to close a lot of games. Poding into Reveillark offers a lot more inevitability and value than a Thragtusk because it generally brings back a combination of Redcap, Witness, Blossoms, or DRS into play upon removal or being Poded out for a Sun Titan or a Grave Titan. I like Shriekmaw a lot because it embodies a lot of what a Pod decks need: A specific mana cost, an advantageous EtB ability, early game application, and it is very zone flexible (GY or Board). What I dislike about Shriekmaw is that it has a low impact for a 5CMC card and is mostly available through Pod. It is the combination of his scarce accessibility (cannot be GSZ'd), low impact compared to his alternatives (Shredder@3 > Shriek@5 for Pod, Decay > Terror and Thrag/Rev > Shriek), that makes its opportunity cost too great.
Grave Titan and Sun Titan are both good with respect to what they do. I still juggle back and forth between the two, and so far Sun has the edge. When it comes to their mana cost, Grave Titan is more accessible. I used to play Grave > Sun for consistency. However, in practice when the time comes to play a 6drop, preparing WW vs. BB is a small leap, therefore it is negligible.
Another thing to keep in mind is that this card is our be-all, end-all solution to clogged boards. Grave Titan is raw, unadulterated size (a big Goyf). He can break through a lot of boards, but when he doesn't, you are shit out of luck. In my experience with Grave I would often be faced with cards like Batterskull equipped on Thalias, Wurmcoil Engines, and active Jittes that I could not always punch through. Grave Titan is also vulnerable to StP and leaves you with 2/2's while your opponent usually has a Batterskull or some other threat nearby. Sun Titan however, will allow you to re-use your previous cards to unmake any board position your opponent has mustered up. Instead of 2 zombie tokens, it usually gives you a Blossoms, a Witness, a Deed, a Nightmare, a Finks, and most often: a Shredder or a Harmonic Sliver. Shredder's echo cost is a boon here as it allows you to cast a Terror per turn while you swing with your Vigilant Titan. Vigilance is almost always better than Deathtouch for a 6/6. Yes it is vulnerable to GY hate, but the benefits are much greater. When Sun Titan is removed, he often left something more valuable than a pair of 2/2s behind.
Mini report time (unfortunately didn't do well enough to warrant writing my more fun ones):
Here's the list I used on the weekend for reference (no changes since my last posted list)
// Deck: P-Fire Nic Fit (60)
// Lands
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
2 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
// Spells
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Punishing Fire
3 Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
The Invitational went less than well (Standard sux) and I went a disappointing 2-2 in Legacy. Lost round one to NO BUG? It was weird. Ripped NO out of his hand and he drew another one. Proggy killed me before I could find a Lily. Trounced UWR Delver R2. Trounced Jund R3. Lost a very close match to Miracles in R4. After Slaughter Gamesing his Jaces, nuking RIP/Helm and killing his Venser, I knew he was down to 1 Entreat in his deck left to win. He has a Humility in play vs my Wolf Run. I have him on a 3 turn clock with a creature but he miracles for enough dudes to put me on 2 turns. Sad panda.
Naturally for consolation, I played the same list in the Legacy Open on Sunday. I'll go into a bit more detail for these matches.
R1 vs Jacob on Slivers (2-1) (1-0)
G1- He kills me. His dudes get out of PFire range and I can't find a Deed in time.
G2- I shred his hand and Deed everything I didn't Therapy. Wasn't even close.
G3- I mull to 4. I rip running perfects. I play Explorer that gets Pathed and draw another one. I rip a Therapy after he plays Standstill to force through a Deed. It nukes his board and I stabilize at 13. I play a Thrun and have to keep him back on defense vs 2 more lord slivers and Mutavault. He finds a Galerider and slams me down to 3. I get to Deed him again but am forced into leaving back my Witness and Thrun vs 2 Mutavaults. He eventually draws a lord and goes all in. My last card is Punishing Fire to kill his lord and a Mutavault and block the other with Thrun. He scoops it up. Casual mull to 4 wins
R2 vs Ian on Shardless BUG (1-1-1) (1-0-1)
G1- Nothing too exciting. 35 minute long grindfest in which I flood out with active Top and he Forces a PFire on his lethal Tar Pit ftw.
G2- Goes much better. Unfortunately, he was able to hold off death for long enough that I was able to kill him on his turn with Huntmaster triggers (turn 5 in turns) so we don't have time for a G3 and have to take a draw. It sucks because he was playing a bit slow, though I don't think it was intentional. Frustrating
R3 vs Nick on Shardless BUG (2-1) (2-0-1)
G1- He gets a couple to many gigantic Goyfs for me to deal with
G2&3 were very anticlimactic and go the way the matchup typically does. All of his stuff dies, and I kill him.
R4 vs Nick on Lands (2-1) (3-0-1)
G1- I get to eat his Loam with an Ooze and he immediately draws a 2nd. I lose to a 20/20 Flying Indestructible monster.
G2- I lead with Therapy on Manabond revealing a hand of a few lands, PFire, Mox Diamond and a Loam. He draws and plays a T1 Dark Confidant obviously. I draw and play an Explorer and flashback the Therapy on his Loam, Surgical them and play a Lily and edict him. I manascrew him by Pulsing his Diamond next turn and win with Garruk. (remembering to pay for Tabernacle) I blind call Ensaring Bridge with Therapy before what would be his last turn and hit one. I flash it back on the EE that was also in his hand. Boom.
G3- Again Therapy, see a hand of garbage. Extract his Loams and start going to work. He runs out a Dark Depths and starts actually removing counters from it while I whittle his life total down. I kill him the turn before he makes a 20/20
R5 vs Greg on Imperial Painter (2-0) (4-0-1)
G1- Super long grindfest while I just never let him keep any chance of comboing on the board with Pulse, Deeds, and Decays. His Ancient Tomb did most of the damage to him and I finished him with a Witness and a Huntmaster.
G2- He scoops after he goes hellbent and I Deed him as there wasn't enough time for him to finish a game.
R6 vs Ben (Friedman) on UWR Delver (0-2) (4-1-1)
This entire match was super frustrating and is the first time I have ever lost to this deck. I just drew like garbage and died. He got me with a super aggro draw game 1 where I can't find a Fire or Deed. Game 2 goes super long and I flood out and die. He admitted after the match that he felt lucky to be able to win. He agreed if I draw Punishing Fire at any point in the games he would have lost handily.
R7 vs Adam on Sneak and Show (0-2) (4-2-1)
G1 was actually very funny. I blind Therapy on Brainstorm and see a hand of lands, 2 Emmys and 2 Sneaks. Hmmm. He does nothing. I flashback a Therapy on the Emmys then cast a second on the Sneaks. We then go back and forth for awhile. I cast Top, he hardcasts Force. I try a Zenith I draw next turn, he hardcasts Force. I stick a Deed. Try a Scavenging Ooze, he hardcasts Force. Draw and cast Witness, and... you guessed it! He hardcasts Force. All the while I'm pinging him for 1 then eventually 2 a turn with PFires as he's been drawing countermagic instead of combo pieces and I stop drawing threats. At 7 life he finally assembles Sneak Attack and Grizzelbeez and hits me and draws 7. I only had 7 mana up so I couldn't Deed the Grizzelbees. He draws 7 and I Deed Sneak Attack on the end step. I draw and resolve another Deed and a Thrun. He untaps and shows in Emmy. I untap and draw Explorer. I have Phyrexian Tower in play. I count it up. 13 mana. Can't quite Deed Emrakul. So close. I wouldn't have cared if I lost every match forever if I could have pulled that off but alas it was not meant to be and he kills me.
G2 I tank for a long time and keep this 7: Swamp, Swamp, Therapy, Therapy, GSZ, Explorer, Slaughter Games. I don't draw one of 16 green sources in the next 2 draw steps that I need to (or another land for the rest of the game but whatever) and I die to Sneak into Emmy + Gbeez. I stand by that keep though I would love to discuss it.
R8 vs Hans on RUG (2-1) (5-2-1)
Bye
R9 vs Micah on Death and Taxes (0-2) (5-3-1)
G1- I run a Deed out though I know he has a Revoker to make him commit it and more to the board. I Fire it and he Vials in a freshly drawn one. I have a Decay for it but it's too late as he was able to tick his Vial up to 3 and I knew he had Flickerwisp in hand. I die to Mirran Crusader and stuff.
G2- I mull to 5 and keep 1 land Top. I get to spin it once and see zero lands in the top 3 before I get Wastelanded and die uneventfully.
The deck is still very very good. Wouldn't have changed a thing. Some unfortunate things happened but that's the game. If anybody wants my sideboarding plans or whatever I'd be happy to oblige. Think that's it for now.. Peace out!
@GtF,
I can agree with you on Notion Thief being sub-par against combo if you have 3-4 Riptide Pilferers coming from the board.
I also agree that 3 Pods is acceptable with 4 Brainstorms. However, 4 Pods wouldn't be bad either. Finding a Pod is as easy as shuffling one away. As I mentioned earlier, it is a Pod deck after all. We need a Pod to go wild.
I am afraid you are missing the point about Sun Titan, Grave Titan, and Reveillark. It is not about being able to muster up the tools somehow else, it is about maximizing your options at a very low cost. Reveillark and Sun Titan are both extremely cost-effective in this deck compared to their counterparts in terms of CMC. You will have to deal with DRS, Ooze, and RiP if you want to be able to take advantage of Persist, Recurring Nightmare, and Witness. It is true that the white version has more reliance on the GY in the form of Sun Titan, Reveillark, and Rector, but it also has more tools to handle GY hate with 4 Decay, and 4 GSZ for Witness/Harmonic. It is also much easier for the white version to gain insurmountable board position after just 1-2 Pod activations.
Just a quick example of tonight's tournament; I had 2 Pods in play and a bunch of lands after fighting off a Junk and a Pox deck respectively that decimated my hand while I ramped as much as I could for safety.
-Against Junk I topdecked a GSZ that converted into a Thragtusk that was poded out for a Sun Titan returning a Witness in play for a recurring Nightmare, I poded out the witness for a restoration angel flashing Sun Titan for Witness again returning the poded out Thragtusk in my hand.
-Against Pox I had 2 Pods in play with 4 lands and an empty board. I drew a Witness, bringing back a land, poded witness out for Rector that I poded out for a Thragtusk, fetching a Nightmare. The next turn I Poded out Thragtusk for Sun Titan taking Witness back form the GY for another land. I then poded out Witness for Restoration Angel on Sun Titan that gave me witness back for a Decay. I used the Recurring Nightmare I got last turn to sac Resto to bring back Thagtusk. I recasted Nightmare sacrificing Witness to bring back Resto targeting Thragtusk. Thats basically how I came back from Liliana, Nether Spirit, and Lingering Souls when I was at 6 life with 4 lands 2 Pods and no cards in hand. I was losing both games very hard but I knew that if I could draw a creature I would be able to turn the game around. I never frown when I play 2 Pods in a row vs. an active Goyf or 2 because all it takes is 1 GSZ to make your opponent's jaw drop.
-Against UWR Delver I had 2 Pods in play at one point and was facing a 2 Delvers, a Grim and a Jitte after I had been stifled to death on my pod activations and managed to wipe a Geist with a Deed. I had 6 life, 6 Lands in play and drew a GSZ. My Harmonic was in the GY after destroying a Batterskull. I grabbed a finks that converted into a Redcap, killing Delver. Redcap killed Grim when he got poded out for a Reveillark. I then flashbacked a Therapy I had in my GY with Reveillark and used a Phyrexian Tower on Redcap bringing back Sliver destroying Jitte and Redcap destroying the second Delver.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Qweerios, some of these Pod machinations are very impressive and made me start experimenting with a greedy BUGw Pod list. One thing that came out of that is that Phyrexian Metamorph is a very decent Restoration Angel+2nd. Pod+Phantasmal Image all in one.
Another thing I tried is Necroplasm. Aside from the somewhat awkward BB it does so much and dredge is surprisingly often relevant.
Pod players, how many lands do you run? I'm at 21 with 0 Towers but I could see myself going to 22, maybe in the form of Dryad Arbor.
Hi guys,
Been a long time I haven't posted here.
I am playing Bazaar of Moxen this WE, and willing to run GtF's BUG pod list. (btw congrats Gtf for your two last results with the list)
Expecting a combo field I feel better a BUG list than a BGw, which I agree is completely nuts vs fair decks (being a long time BGw player myself) but weaker vs Combo in general.
I am considering a few changes though:
MD:
- Wood Elves into Sea Gate Oracle seems relevant to me, as it also increases the U card density for FoW post-SB
- 4th DRS into the 4th Brainstorm or 2nd GSZ ?, if it were for creatures I am tempted to change that into a Clique (UU could be annoying though) or a Mulldrifter (isn't it too cute ?). Again I am interested in increasing the U card density to have better opportunities to cast the Pilferers naturally drawn.
There it could be the 4th Pod as suggested, but I would rather increase the Brainstorm slots over the Pod first.
- I am tempted to turn the Grave Titan into a Reveillark, although I wouldn't change the manabase. W should be too hard to generate with DRS, and it should be Pod into most of the time. Reveillark is meant to do the same thing as the Titan, get the board back with 2 creatures instead of Zombies. All the more when the creatures brought back have impact on the board.
I just don't know how awkward it is to not have a 6ccm target, and this may be why I would not run the Lark.
or maybe the Lark would be into the 4th DRS slot ?
SB:
- Notion Thief into a 2nd Thoughtseize
- 3rd Deed into Toxic Deluge: I just feel better to not optimize the opponent's Pithing Needle/P.Revoker
If you guys have comments on my thoughts, I'd be happy to hear. Especially about the 4th DRS slot.
- I am convinced that Sea Gate Oracle over Wood Elves is as much of a strict improvement as it gets. I don't think it is close which one is better for the deck.
- Cutting the 4th DRS sounds reasonable, but I am not a big fan of DRS in Nic Fit to begin with.
- For Reveillark, in my experience it was not the card I expected it to be when I tested Pod. I thought Reveillark would be a main reason to play white but in testing it was never that relevant. Good card, but in my testing it was not as good as it sounded in theory. Against UW many creatures get either exiled or put on bottom, then there is DRS and RiP and Ooze, then there are Combo decks that don't care and then there are matchups like RUG in which Lark into Titan is just overkill. Maybe other people have different experiences. If I was playing white Pod anyway I would play it but I would not recommend splashing for it.
- I would not cut the Notion Thief. Completely shutting down the cantripping of Combo decks is great and he is insane against BUG and very good against Miracles and Blade. If I were to cut anything it would be the Jitte.
- I don't think Toxic Deluge is a good SB card.
- DRS: I am not either a fan of DRS in Nic Fit, but the Pod mechanics makes it different. Since you can Pod it into a Strix, I think it makes sense at least to have 2 of them. Currently thinking about cutting the 3rd.
- Lark: it sure became tricky since Miracles because of Terminus. Apart from that StP is not that much an issue I think. But for other fair MU, it is actually between Thragtusk/Grave Titan/Sun Titan slot. But I still see it difficult in the U shell. Maybe just Recurring nightmares is enough GY-value.
- Notion Thief: I am not really fond of Notion Thief given Gtf's SB. We already have Glen Elendra, which is I think the main goal vs Combo. I see how it would shine vs UW or BUG, but is it really necessary ?
- Toxic Deluge: Can you develop on why you think it is not good ? I usually play Infest in that slot, and I see the Deluge to be more versatile in that slot.
Notion Thief could be cuttable with the second Glen Elendra, that is true.
For Toxic Deluge, it is best against Aggro but that is also a matchup in which paying life sucks. In which matchup would Deluge be better than Infest anyway?
Well, it is more about the casting cost that I see Deluge being "better" than Infest.
It is easier to cast 2B early game than 1BB, might be relevant vs Goblin, Belcher, Merfolk, to have a fast sweep.
I am not very concerned with life loss, since we play Finks and Thragtusk, with some recursion engine. Though I might be wrong practically.
@Gtf: do you feel the life loss would have been an issue on your previous tournaments ?
Obviously we will never pay more than -2/-2. But if the life loss is real concern I might stick to Infest, or Damnation/E.Explosive things.
Please stop talking about how awesome these pod decks are. You're going to make me pick up this deck again lol.
I feel like we're the only ones still talking about this build anymore. But that's fine because the Pod decks are sweet too.
Thoughts from last night:
I'm sold on maindeck Slaughter Games. My main concern was that it would dilute our deck against fair opponents game 1, but it did a lot more work than I expected against random fair decks. I took a Goblins opponent's Ringleaders so I knew he wouldn't be able to recover from my Deed, I took Revokers away from Death and Taxes to make sure my Deed would let me stabilize, I took away Punishing Fire from my Punishing Nic Fit opponent to make sure he couldn't grind me out, and I had the potential to cast it turn 3 game 1 against my Sneak/Show opponent (never saw a black source, but I felt much more in it than I would have without that). It will still come out more often than not against non-combo, but having it in game 1 is way less of a hindrance than I expected it to be.
I never saw Rakdos' Return, nor did I ever really want to. I think I'll be going back to 3 Pyroclasm, since that makes boarding feel way more effective against fair opponents like Goblins, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, etc- I bring out 2 Slaughter Games, bring in 2 Clasms, and still have one to Wish for.
Carpet was awesome and made me remember why it was in the deck in the first place. I only cast it once but it was so strong, and I realized that it's pretty much exactly what we want to make sure we can cripple blue combo with our Slaughter Games. This is especially true now that we once again have the 3rd Games in the sideboard to Wish for, so we're more likely to be able to cast Games, we just need to make sure we can get the mana to do it.
The Phyrexian Tower vs Bayou never came up, but there were some cases where drawing Tower would have been way worse than drawing Bayou. Going to either the 3rd Bayou or the 3rd fetchland is probably something I'll do before DC.
This puts my sideboard at:
2 REB
2 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet
3 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Innocent Blood
1 Reverent Silence
1 Slaughter Games
This configuration makes boarding much easier for me as well. Games come out for Pyroclasms against creature decks, Tusks Titans and Deeds become Seizes REBS and Carpets against blue combo, Games can stay in against Miracles and Explorers/a Therapy turn into REBs and Carpets, etc. It feels much cleaner and I'm less apt to shave numbers when I have a more definite plan. This is partly a call I'm making because of the way I personally approach sideboarding, and partly because I've been so happy with 3 Pyroclasm in the board.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
