In a deck with no wastelands and runs price of Progress, stifle shouldn't be there. You have to pick a plan. Either stifles and wastelands or price or progress and more basics.
A 3/2 with stapled on shock per spell doesn't look that scary honestly. I'd rather have Snapcaster at 3cc. Flashing back a stifle or spell pierce can be gamebreaking.
What if we look at it this way:Originally Posted by ivanpei
Stifle could prevent some fetching of basic lands, and as a result the opponent could be forced to play nonbasic lands from hand, rather than shuffle them away.
That's like saying you should wasteland an opponents white sources and then thoughtseize their green cards so they can't play any spells. Yes, in clutch situations this might be a good idea, but why are you playing both of these cards in a tempo shell in the first place?
Do you want them to have a lot of nonbasics in play and then PoP them to death? Or do you want them to have no mana for spells? You can't have both, pick one
Why not just play more Vortex?Miracle and UWR matchups seems to be a bit difficult; do you think this dude could help, maybe as a 1of in the SB?
It makes our clock even faster, especially combined with vortex and he beats well. The 3 mana is of course not the greatest for the deck, but then again - snapcasters cost 3 almost everytime too.
EDIT: seems decent against omnishow and high tide as well.
Agreed. Vortez is really hard for them to remove.
I already play two vortexes, and they board in disenchant. Or still just make 4 angels at 6 life and beat me..
Its difficult to get past the top/CB combo if you dont have pyroblast or more counter than them.
I was thinking that this could support them, by hitting for more each turn. every damage point counts, so if they StP it, so be it. That just means a delver lives to fight.
You know they have more ways to remove creatures than they have to remove Vortex, right?
I do yes. If we're talking miracles. Just that that more creatures would be helpful, and since Im not fond of snapcaster and I value early and quick damage I thought this could work.
Snapcaster is just so much better. Not only is the damage more guaranteed, he also can be a much less narrow card in other matches like flashing back a spell pierce
New to the thread and can't find anything on izzet charm; is it just too slow for the more mid range lists?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
It's Spell Pierce for 2 mana, Kills Deathrite which needs to be killed with this deck, looting helps when flooding out bad.
I have myself tested one in past, every mode is useful, but I don't know if the two mana for those efects and the fact it doesn't go to upstairs if needed is why people don't play it.
At that point don't you just filter for burn or action? At the point where you need burn you will no longer need spare lands so trading them out for action seems like the tits.
Obviously in the faster lists it matters but in anything but pure has I would think it would see play.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
tried the Kendrick Lentini list tonight at my $10 weekly. was intrigued by the inclusion of Nivmagus Elemental. played this deck in summer 2012 for a bit (see report here).
i had some really clunky openers with the deck. had to keep 4 land, brainstorm, 4 fetch on the play in one game, for example; a naked Nivmagus without protection feels terrible. managed some nice plays (dazed a bolt, exiled the daze to pump elemental, swish!), but wasn't a fan of the card overall. i like this deck as counter-burn. missed the extra ponders, missed the spell pierces, missed the extra main deck price of progress, missed snapcaster, etc.
probably will shelve it for the time being to get some storm training in but i'd go back to the snapcaster build and include vapour snags to deal with goyfs. this deck is still waiting for the replacement for Goblin Guide as far as i'm concerned.
i think the UWr is the strongest delver list out there right now—full tempo package and the stoneforge package plus geist for fast clock and a decent long game.
@warfordium on twitter.
Isn't RUG the strongest delver deck?
I think ur can be faster or slower depending on the build but if you want to play straight tempo delver, RUG is the way to go.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
warfordium:
I like the play of bolting my opponents guy in response to wastelanding me, dazing the bolt and exiling the daze with Nivmagus, so saving my land from waste. That feels like magic.
I having played Nivmagus list a lot and have had some success with it, I would very much like to see your list, since I have made myself so, that I still have my burn, not gone full Nivmagus with all suboptimal spells, since I don't feel like that's way to go.
I linked my list from last summer in the post. Here is the Kendrick Lentini list.
@warfordium on twitter.
Thank you. I meant Kendrick Lentinis Nivmagus list, didn't occur to me that I could just google it.
This is the list I played before: Decklist
I have now cut Clouts, Vendilion Clique and second mountain and play 3 Price of Progress main, along with few other changes.
I have yet to test Young Pyromancer, but I think it's less good topdeck than Snapcaster and I don't like playing gitaxian probes. Also I find that 3 dazes is enough since even if good with elemental, it loses a lot of actual countering value fast since I don't play wasteland. I play two stifles though for moment, but I have plans to change that soon.
Edit. Don't know why I didn't post update list straight here, maybe I wanted to boast with Mtgtop8 entry ;)
Lands: 17
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
Creatures 13
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
Sorcery 6
3 Chain Lightning
3 Ponder
Instant 23
4 Force of Will
4 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Daze
3 Price of Progress
2 Stifle
Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Divert
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Shattering Spree
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Forked Bolt
Thinking about playing two True Name Nemesis
Why does everyone hate Goblin Guide so much in this thread? The amount of times that I have seen a guide deal 6 damage for 1 mana is ridiculous.
Don't hate the guide, just didn't get any results with it anymore around here, so I adapted. But yeah, he's getting bashed around here pretty much. But must admit that he's less good for us than for burn.
Meh. This is burn. WIth force of will and brainstorm... If you have a Dlever and a Guide on T1 you play the guide and battle. Get more aggressive!
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