[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Alex Holland]

Alex Holland and kingtk3, can you share your lists that i want to test the Stompy version too; i started to play MUD in march with the Kuldotha version, then some weeks ago i tested the Welder version, now i'm back with a colorless Kuldotha version that's giving me good games, at least on cockatrice; it works, i rarely mulligan, and i'm overall happy with my choices and the side; i'll test it in a real tournament in 2 weeks; i'll share it below if someone wants to test it/share some thoughts.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Buried Ruin

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Voltaic Key
3 Lightning Greaves
2 Thran Dynamo
1 Staff of Nin
1 Bottled Cloister

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Emperion
-----------------
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Trinisphere
3 Defense Grid
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Nin

I have no cards against graveyard cause graveyard's strategies are not really prevalent here, i would play Faerie Macabre if i were to.

This what i run:

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 cavern of souls
4 wasteland
2 rishadan port
4 mishras factory

4 lodestone golem
4 phyrexian revoker
4 wurmcoil engine
4 batterskull
4 metalworker

2 all is dust
3 karn liberated

3 thran dynamo
4 grim monolith
4 chalice of the void
2 ratchet bomb

Cheers!

[kingtk3]

Alex Holland and kingtk3, can you share your lists that i want to test the Stompy version too; i started to play MUD in march with the Kuldotha version, then some weeks ago i tested the Welder version, now i'm back with a colorless Kuldotha version that's giving me good games, at least on cockatrice; it works, i rarely mulligan, and i'm overall happy with my choices and the side; i'll test it in a real tournament in 2 weeks; i'll share it below if someone wants to test it/share some thoughts.

Here's my latest list (though it's been sometime and I may change something)

Locks
3 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
3 phyrexian revoker
4 lodestone golem

Beaters
3 wurmcoil engine
2 steel hellkite
2 godo, bandit warlord
2 batterskull

Utilities
3 phyrexian metamorph
1 sword of fire and ice

Mana
3 metalworker
4 grim monolith
3 thran dynamo

Lands
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
3 mountain
4 cavern of soul

SIDE
1 phyrexian revoker
2 Karn liberated
3 spine of ish sah
3 tormod's crypt
3 ratchet bomb
1 trinisphere
2 flex slot


My favorite target for phyrexian metamorph is lodestone: it almost always wins you the game landing a turn 2 golem and cloning it the turn after.

Swap the crypts for faerie macabre if your meta is full of reanimators.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I haven't played this deck in a while, but my last stompy list looked something like this. I will probably play it again soon depending on my meta, I always liked the deck.

4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Batterskull
2 Karn Liberated

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Buried Ruin

Sideboard
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust
2 Trinisphere

[Snapback]

Has anyone tried the 12-Post manabase in MUD? I switched over to that, and have generally been enjoying it. My meta is filled with Elves, URx Delver, Jace decks, and Goblins. However, I'm going to GP DC in a few weeks, and want to tune this list for a more general meta(unless I just play Merfolk). Is Duplicant the best card vs Sneak & Show? Any general suggestions from someone who's tried a similar manabase?

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Steel Hellkite
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Karn, Liberated

4 Grim Monolith
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Nin
1 Staff of Domination
1 Mox Diamond

Sideboard
2 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Karn, Liberated
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Crucible of Worlds

[Esper3k]

Spine is a more versatile card against them since it can hit Sneak Attack but Duplicant is more of a blowout if it works.

[astormbrewing]

@Snapback

Here is a list that got top 8 in a SCG IQ. It played 12-post lands.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=59228

This is the list I'm looking at playing in DC.

/Creatures
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Duplicant
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
4 Wurmcoil Engine

/Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Karn Liberated
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
1 Trading Post
2 Trinisphere
2 Voltaic Key

/Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Wasteland

/Sideboard
1 All is Dust
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Silent Arbiter
2 Spellskite
1 Sundering Titan
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Witchbane Orb

[Alex Holland]

Nobody likes all is dust main deck? Against Everything that plays permanents its awesome. Sometimes i like it more then karn or spine as removal. It wipes their board and doesnt target. I am never not happy to draw it, plus when i dont have 7 mana turn 3-4 (when its most useful to drop one) im dead anyway.

[astormbrewing]

Nobody likes all is dust main deck? Against Everything that plays permanents its awesome. Sometimes i like it more then karn or spine as removal. It wipes their board and doesnt target. I am never not happy to draw it, plus when i dont have 7 mana turn 3-4 (when its most useful to drop one) im dead anyway.

If I could play All is Dust off Show and Tell, and All is Dust killed Emrakul, then I'd be a bit more inclined to play it. I'm anticipating a decent amount of Sneak and Show and Omni-Tell decks in DC.

[Alex Holland]

If I could play All is Dust off Show and Tell, and All is Dust killed Emrakul, then I'd be a bit more inclined to play it. I'm anticipating a decent amount of Sneak and Show and Omni-Tell decks in DC.

So rishadan ports instead of citadel to keep them away from u?
Away from u lol pun intended..

[Snapback]

@Snapback

Here is a list that got top 8 in a SCG IQ. It played 12-post lands.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=59228

Haha, that's me. Lost to the RUG Delver player in the top 8. Very close match - my opponent had 2 Price of Progress in the sideboard, and found it games 2 and 3 to put me away each time. 12 Post is definitely vulnerable to the spell. It was a small event - maybe 25 people. My one loss in the swiss was to a Belcher player. I misplayed and put Chalice on 1 T1, instead of zero. I hadn't analyzed Belcher before, and just assumed that you cast chalice for 1 if you could.

Your list and mine are very similar - mainly just the lands and voltaic key in the main deck. I've seen some players run a Bottled Cloister, and while I haven't tested it, that seems stronger than Witchbane Orb against discard; however, Orb would probably be more versatile.

I may start running Spine main deck again, to deal with Show and Tell.

[FlyingSkull13]

So last night Ice Imports in CT had a duel for Duals for TCG, it was a 6 round tourney i piloted this


4 Goblin Welder
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Blightsteel Colossus

1 Karn Liberated

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
2 Voltaic Key
2 Trinisphere - this is normally switched with blood moon, but i figured storm would be at the SCG more than BUG/jund.
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Nin - first time trying it and i absolutely LOVED it!
1 Staff of Domination - never combo'ed with it but tapping down Reanimator's lone guy is good.
1 Spine of Ish Sah

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Mountain

SB
2 torpor orb
2 trinisphere
3 ensnaring bridge
1 platinum emperion
3 tomod's crypt
2 rachet bomb
1 duplicant
1 spine of ish sah

this was solid all evening, the sideboard is for some of the combo matchups, i expected sneak and show and others. I was very surprised at what i played against.

thanks to Sunsatzu for posting, the sideboard was adapted for what i expected
37 players!!!

R1 EUREKA!!!!
so game 1 he starts game revealing daze guy, so it delays my chalice till turn 2, i play a turn two lodestone golem, he plays a show and tell and i play a wurm coil engine that goes the distance.

game 2 he again plays show and tell i get metal worker + lodestone golem online, he forgets an attack step giving me extra turn, i draw forgemaster, equip greaves, get blight and mike tyson him out of the game.

R2 Jund
G1-I thought i had the game, then he blood braid's into lilli, and he resets my board, Karn makes an appearance and wurm coil engine and tokens puts him away

G2-he kills my early excell, and maelstrom pulses my golem and kills me

G3-double lodestone golem is the bee's knee vs fair decks

R3 12 POST
G1-chalice on one plus lodestone gets there, i gave him an extra turn by not comboing out with metal worker and forgemaster

G2-I dont get my excell in time, he counters chalice, and he gets big fatty and kills me

G3- ancient tomb does allot of dmg to me, then he BONFIRES me out of the game

R4-affinity
G1-i have metal worker in play, collosus in hand, he's ahead of me on clock by one turn, then i draw Staff and auto win

G2-Opening hand has metal worker and staff in it, he does not have removal spell

R5-ENCHANTRESS
G1-i somehow nearly punt 3 times while having the metal worker and staff combo in play, i squeeze the game out of my punts.

G2-He plays humility, i play staff and metal worker, he doesnt play 2nd humility, i draw 3rd sol land and kill him with spine.

R6-ID-storm?

QUARTERS-JUND
G1-lodestone golem x2 is just not fair

G2-I go all in on blightsteel, he has 3 turns to get another lilli and does not get there

SEMI-REMATCH WITH 12 POST
g1 he's on the play, i get chalice on 1 to stick and i beat him to death, i miss comboing him out 1 turn earlier

g2 he bonefires me out from 16

g3 he waits out my forgemaster, bonefires me, then plays emerkual, torpor orb does nothing against emerkual

Props-
RockLee, excellent matches, i learn more from those matches than any other
metalworker + staff, i do not know why i cut staff, but it is not leaving anymore
my opponents were all pleasant
staff of nin pulled its weight in slower matchups

Slops-
tourney started at 6 pm, did not get home till 3:40 in the morning, but was done as efficently as possible.

[Muddle_Worker]

Wondering what people sideboard in for their delver matchups.
I run 4 ratchet bomb and 3 defense grid. Trying to get a feel for what others are using.
I run forgemaster build myself. I've also tried 12 post lands and don't care for them
Nearly as much as I do my artifact lands.i do however think in a non-forgemaster build the land base is more feasible. Just my 2 cents

[Bionitech]

Is it me or has Lodestone Golem been underperforming? I Understand he's a key part of the deck, but when a metagame is flooded with midarange decks that can easily deal with it, I find it completely useless as it nearly dies to almost everything. RUG doesn't care about it, Deathblade decks don't care about it, really only decks that sort of care are storm decks. And in a meta like LA, midrange decks are everywhere, and the show and tell decks are the ones that seem to be keeping them at bay and storm I see maybe one person out of 40 operating it.

It's a 5/3 for 4 and come out turn two, possibly turn one. Ok, what else can come out at the same speed? Copper Gnomes. More fragile but would you rather have a blightsteel or a silly golem that is basically a wall? I would be happier to have more aggressive hands than a midrange card that gets outclassed a turn later.

I understand some of you have had exceptional games where lodestone golem LITERALLY stole a game. But think about this: How often does this happen and why? If it's not a card that can consistently accelerate the game and beat the opponent down then it's not a card worth including anymore. The extra doesn't hurt anyone playing Deathrite Shaman. And most decks play it. At best he can hit once and then die, when a copper gnomes for the same mana can put into play a wurmcoil engine, which does a heck of a lot more.

I for one have taken him out and put the gnomes in and a full set of wurmcoils. So far it has worked for me.

[kingtk3]

About Lodestone Golem:
I think it depends if you are playing the stompy or the combo version, here's an old post with the analisys for the combo version:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post687380

Basically I don't think it's strictly necessary in forgemaster builds but still it's playable.

For the stompy builds, however, it's the backbone of the deck.
RUG is a tempo deck that plays only 18 (at most 19) lands and wins with cheap and free spells (the only CMC2 is tarmogoyf): you land a golem and their strategy is ruined.

Deathblade plays only vendilion and batterskull as 3 power creature otherwise they have to block with 2 creatures to kill the golem, which would still be a faster clock than thos creatures. And if the have to use DRS to pay the tax that means that they cannot use it to ramp in something bigger or to play another spell, which is basically what MUD wants.

Golem makes bloodbraid elf nearly unplayable (it will costs a total of 6 mana), prevents omnihall from winning on the spot and I could name more of specific situations, but the important thing it's that it messes with the opponent deck building: when you build a deck you choose how much lands to play basing on your casting costs, but if they're incremented even by one your deck will not functions optimally (ie you will not be able to play a spell or play 2 on the same turn when needed, especially good for counter decks).

Golem is also disruption AND threat at the same time, the best "hate bear" if you look at from this prospective, and can win you games alone.

And remember that golem is often supported by wasteland and rishadan port (other great cards that double as mana and "resistors")...

[Alex Holland]

About Lodestone Golem:
I think it depends if you are playing the stompy or the combo version, here's an old post with the analisys for the combo version:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post687380

Basically I don't think it's strictly necessary in forgemaster builds but still it's playable.

For the stompy builds, however, it's the backbone of the deck.
RUG is a tempo deck that plays only 18 (at most 19) lands and wins with cheap and free spells (the only CMC2 is tarmogoyf): you land a golem and their strategy is ruined.

Deathblade plays only vendilion and batterskull as 3 power creature otherwise they have to block with 2 creatures to kill the golem, which would still be a faster clock than thos creatures. And if the have to use DRS to pay the tax that means that they cannot use it to ramp in something bigger or to play another spell, which is basically what MUD wants.

Golem makes bloodbraid elf nearly unplayable (it will costs a total of 6 mana), prevents omnihall from winning on the spot and I could name more of specific situations, but the important thing it's that it messes with the opponent deck building: when you build a deck you choose how much lands to play basing on your casting costs, but if they're incremented even by one your deck will not functions optimally (ie you will not be able to play a spell or play 2 on the same turn when needed, especially good for counter decks).

Golem is also disruption AND threat at the same time, the best "hate bear" if you look at from this prospective, and can win you games alone.

And remember that golem is often supported by wasteland and rishadan port (other great cards that double as mana and "resistors")...

Plus often you will accidentely play a second golem wich will make them scoop.
Only downside is that it makes karn and all is dust more expensive. I had lodestones commit suicide just so i could drop karn liberated :)

Stoneblade actually is easy for stompy. All they have is swords to plowshares wich is killed by chalice swiftely. Yesterday i faced a t3 batterskull. I just placed down 2 myself true worker followed by a wurm. Scoop!

I think i got delver positive now too, 2-3 ratchet bomb maindeck is wort it in 2013> delver, tarmogoyf, kor, lavamancer, shaman. A early bomb is almost as good as a t1 chalice!

[Bionitech]

I guess since going for a more combo route I've started seeing more and more cards leaving the deck because of a completely different game plan. In my meta the combo version works wonders because fewer people are prepared for it and has multiple threats that can be cheated out quickly so I'm not as afraid of FoW as I used to.

My list (to be tested)

Land
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod

Creatures
4 Metalworker
3 Copper Gnomes
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster

Artifacts
4 Grim Monolith
2 Mox Opal
2 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinishphere
2 Voltaic Key
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Crucible of Worlds

Planeswalker
2 Tezzeret, the Seeker


I might be switching back between stompy and combo depending on what kind of plays I see most. I might include lodestone again if I go stompy and the like

[Rock Lee]

R3 12 POST
G1-chalice on one plus lodestone gets there, i gave him an extra turn by not comboing out with metal worker and forgemaster

G2-I dont get my excell in time, he counters chalice, and he gets big fatty and kills me

G3- ancient tomb does allot of dmg to me, then he BONFIRES me out of the game

--------------

SEMI-REMATCH WITH 12 POST
g1 he's on the play, i get chalice on 1 to stick and i beat him to death, i miss comboing him out 1 turn earlier

g2 he bonefires me out from 16

g3 he waits out my forgemaster, bonefires me, then plays emerkual, torpor orb does nothing against emerkual

Props-
RockLee, excellent matches, i learn more from those matches than any other
metalworker + staff, i do not know why i cut staff, but it is not leaving anymore
my opponents were all pleasant
staff of nin pulled its weight in slower matchups

Slops-
tourney started at 6 pm, did not get home till 3:40 in the morning, but was done as efficently as possible.

Stop playing MUD!

[FlyingSkull13]

Stop playing MUD!

LoL

[Alex Holland]

Stop playing MUD!

As long as it beats delver decks ill keep playing..

This morning went 2-0 against ru delver and neither games i had chalice out :)

[Barsoom]

A really interesting list top4 at the Eternal Weekend, here the link --> http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...al13/legacy#6a

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Wasteland

1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
2 Spellskite
1 Sundering Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
1 Staff of Nin
4 Trinisphere
-----------------
2 All Is Dust
1 Batterskull
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Wurmcoil Engine

Interesting things to note, imho
- the use of 12 post manabase (i think this is the best result in a big tournament for a 12Post MUD)
- 2 Spellskite main
- the full 4x of Trinisphere main; in my testing i never liked to have this card main, and i use it as a 3x in the side against combo, but it seems it worked good here
- 4x Spine of Ish Sah between main and side, i guess that the more consistent mana base really helps hardcasting this one without Metalworker as soon as turn 3, practically like a Vindicate in normal decks

In the interview above the decklists the player (Greg Price) said that he is working on the deck from 2 years; would be really interesting to hear his thoughts about his choices, and maybe a report too.