[Deck] Manaless Ichorid

[Citizen]

Hi there,

simple rule question:

I have a Bridge in my grave, i sac a creature to flashback a therapy.
Do i choose the order on the stack of the therapy and the bridge trigger ?
If yes, is their an order better than the other one ?

[ahg113]

Hi there,

simple rule question:

I have a Bridge in my grave, i sac a creature to flashback a therapy.
Do i choose the order on the stack of the therapy and the bridge trigger ?
If yes, is their an order better than the other one ?

No
The Bridge triggers before the spell resolves, as a result of sacrificing a creature to cast therapy. So you don't get an option.

[slave]

No
The Bridge triggers before the spell resolves, as a result of sacrificing a creature to cast therapy. So you don't get an option.

Yup.

Remember your trigger's. Can't stress this enough.
If you stuff up the order, a fucktard opponent can wave their whiney arse at you, and get a judge over to give you frowny face.
Nether Shadow and Ichorid should be in your mind at start of every turn.

To add to this;
Should an opponent have one of their creatures hit the grave during combat = exiles all Bridges.
When a creature dies and goes to the grave, they can still have a trigger placed on the stack (for example, Festering Goblin) but this can't happen from exile.
So regardless of whether your creatures died also, you get no tokens out of it either way.

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Just a thought peeps.
I'm running a side full of answers to gravehate lately.
And I've been running a single Bayou.
It's been absolutely stellar in the games where I've actually drawn it (about 2 or 3 so far) but it still has me nervous....
Been thinking of introducing another, making my land count postboard;
4 Dryad Arbor, 1 Forest, 2 Bayou/Overgrown Tomb, 2 Verdant Catacombs

I'm curious whether anyone here has given it (or Overgrown Tomb) a go, and whether you think it's even worth a slot, given that Wasteland does stuff, and things.

Also,
I've been playing around trying to make up a list with Riftstone Portal and some Swamp's.
But I just can't seem to make it work in any real sense that isn't full retard.
Has anyone had any luck with Riftstone in manaless?

[meffeo]

Going to a small tourney this saturday, that's the list I've got in mind:

Creatures:48
4 Dryad Arbor
4 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
4 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Street Wraith
2 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Phantasmagorian
1 Griselbrand

Spells:12
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Dread Return

Sideboard:15
1 Forest
2 Fetch
4 Nature's Claim
3 Contagion
4 Reverent Silence
1 Ashen Rider

I'm going manaless cause the ledless list with lands that I've played so far hasn't the same consistency that I've seen with the manaless.

[slave]

I'm going manaless cause the ledless list with lands that I've played so far hasn't the same consistency that I've seen with the manaless.

Nice list.

I disagree with your last comment though.
LED-dredge is quite consistent, and has the benefit of being successful even when you mulligan aggressively (even down to 4!)
I'd argue that Manaless is more threat dense, but doesn't have consistentcy comparable to it's LED cousin.

[meffeo]

Thanks for your answer. I'll write a report after the tourney

Edit: atm I can't find the 4 chancellor and it's too late for order it, there's a nice substiute for her?

Edit2:

I was wondering about 4 Gitaxian Probe. It's a great engine because, as someone already said:

1 - it lets me draw a card (-> dredge)
2 - the following Cabal Therapy are easier

BUT

it's counterable, it means that I lose at the same time the chance to see opponent's hand and to dredge.

Then I assume that Chancellor > Probe.

[ahg113]

Nice list.

I disagree with your last comment though.
LED-dredge is quite consistent, and has the benefit of being successful even when you mulligan aggressively (even down to 4!)
I'd argue that Manaless is more threat dense, but doesn't have consistentcy comparable to it's LED cousin.

For the heck of it, meffeo said LED-less < manaless.

And for the creatures die in combat, with a bridge in your yard- you can still get tokens (barring first strike, sacrificing, other tricks.)

Both creatures (yours is non-token) deal damage and die at the same time. You own the bridge, and both events occur for it to trigger. You own both triggers (since you own bridge) and can place them on the stack as you wish. With the LIFO (Last In, First Out) resolving method, place the remove trigger on the stack first, then your token generator trigger second. As they resolve, you get your tokens, then bridge is removed. If/when your opponent cries, call a judge, and have the judge tell said opponent to suck it.

[slave]

For the heck of it, meffeo said LED-less < manaless.

And for the creatures die in combat, with a bridge in your yard- you can still get tokens (barring first strike, sacrificing, other tricks.)

Both creatures (yours is non-token) deal damage and die at the same time. You own the bridge, and both events occur for it to trigger. You own both triggers (since you own bridge) and can place them on the stack as you wish. With the LIFO (Last In, First Out) resolving method, place the remove trigger on the stack first, then your token generator trigger second. As they resolve, you get your tokens, then bridge is removed. If/when your opponent cries, call a judge, and have the judge tell said opponent to suck it.

Sorry meffeo - guess I don't read proper.

RE: Bridge ruling > This sounds right, but I've been ruled against trying to do this, multiple times.

[Mr. Froggy]

Sorry meffeo - guess I don't read proper.

RE: Bridge ruling > This sounds right, but I've been ruled against trying to do this, multiple times.

Impossible to be ruled against, since its right. The judge who ruled against you needs to refresh his/her memory.

[slave]

Impossible to be ruled against, since its right. The judge who ruled against you needs to refresh his/her memory.

Aight > Thanks. Next time someone waves a tanty, I'll call their mother a hamster.

[meffeo]

A little update and thoughts about my list:

Creatures:42

4 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
4 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Street Wraith
2 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Griselbrand

Spells:16
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Bridge from Below
4 Dread Return

Sideboard:15
3 Forest
4 Nature's Claim
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Reverent Silence

TOTAL: 58

As you can see I've decided to run 4 griselbrand. As it enters the bf it's quite gg for me, and I'm quite satisfied with my sideboard choices.

I've cutted the dryad arbor and I play without the balustrade, it means that I have two free slots. Any suggestions?

[GoldenCid]

Spot removal?

[meffeo]

Spot removal? The only thing that comes in my mind is [card]Contagion[/card] but I don't run it for the same reason I don't run leyline in sideboard: mulligan to find it and consequently lose the chance to draw the 8th card and discard.

[GoldenCid]

Well there are just 2 cards left. They will be hard to find them anyway. Id suggest some dr targets but if you feel confortable with griselda i dont know what to say.

[meffeo]

Maybe something like the third flayer and a terastodon / ashen rider? Even if I prefer to use the dr for griselbrand, flayer, ggt, it could be an interesting suggestion.

Thanks for the tip!

[slave]

....I have two free slots. Any suggestions?

Dryad Arbor.
It's an enabler and a mana source postboard.
If you're not running Spy, there's little else I would suggest in front of the Arbor.
Don't mean to be a killjoy....

[Graf_Caligula]

What comes to mind is:

-Sickening Shoal against fatties

-Contagion against the smaller ones

-Baubles for extra draw

But as Slave said. Dryad Arbor seems the best choice for me, especially as a 2 of.

[meffeo]

The baubles is a great idea. Extra dredgers...

I played last week at a small tourney and something nice happened. Before my draw step my opponent casted a vendillion targetting me, I've putted a card on the bottom of the deck and... I dredged for 6 thanks to ggt. The room laughed out loudly.

[fashion]

hi all
first post on the source ;)
i have played first the spy list but i wasnt happy with the second an tird game lacking of anti hate cards so i have switshed to the griselbrand /arbor list with anti hate side board.

but , do we include the entire hate side board in (second and third game) and do we take cards out of the main board ?
thanx in advance
and sorry for my bad english ;)

[scottpou]

To me, the point of Ichorid is to be resilient through counter spells. I have focused my list to abusing my current meta which is overrun with tempo decks. By putting in 1 Darmor Dalvage it allows me to pull out those Bloodghasts when I need them at the end of the game.


2 Shambling Shell
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Dread Return
3 Griselbrand
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
4 Ichorid
4 Street Wraith
1 Ashen Rider
4 Dryad Arbor
4 Bloodghast

SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 4 Reverent Silence
SB: 3 Forest
SB: 4 Chancellor of the Annex

Recently, someone surgically extracted my Griselbrand. So I Dread Returned Flayer and then Dread Returned Dryad Arbor causing 3 Bloodghasts to also trigger into the battlefield and killing my opponent with Flayer's ability. It was actually pretty cool to watch him get angry at that.