@Arian: As usual great report, fully detailed and I really do like your insights.
And I do share your feeling about this week end; we have all made game costing mistakes. Our worst enemy while playing magic is more often than I would like : "yourself".
To go back to your thoughts about the deck.
Do we really use the burning wish package proactively ? Aside from picking sometimes a TS, a SG or a scapeshift, it is rather IMHO a lot of reactive plays...
However, I do really love to be able to SB a cabal therapy, as being able to wish for it, has won me a non zero amount of games.
Thinking more about it, I'll try to put a TS main and a Therapy straight in the side.
I hate wishing for "TS" and getting "TS" countered as it is more likely than not that I'm wishing for TS against a MU where resolving TS is a matter of life or death.
I'll also be trying to run some "Kessig cagebreakers" as the card itself seems "to be undiscovered" in Legacy.
Sure, it is not playable in every deck but I feel like it could be insane in some MU as it could sometimes be a 2 turn-clock.
-1 Thragtusk +1 Kessig or -1 Huntmaster +1 Kessig (remember that I'm already playing an Ooze in lieu of the 3rd Huntmaster)
At least I'll spend time to think about the BW package as well to evaluate if our next "smartest move" could be to dismiss it.
It feels super impressive sometimes and some other super clunky. And I've got the feeling that we should all converge towards more stability rather than outstanding counter-measures...
To finish with this little personal brainstorming, I'll ask the Nicfit community about a good zenitable creature to fight back cheap and efficent flying creatures. I'm feeling that more often than not we are soft (and mainly for scapeshifters) to them. Obvisouly I'm thinking about delver & co but hell why not others.
Thank for readin'
Stay tuned !
I don't love Kessig Cagebreaker's here due to the lack of creatures, his small body will often be chump blocked and killed. I often feel that Grave Titan is almost strictly better, it produces many tokens and will always at least trade. Fierce Empath to tutor him is nice as well.Originally Posted by Ralf
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I mean, to be fair, if I had seen the Zenith, I probably would have missed the Foothills, and all things considered I think that I would rather have the Foothills. I would have liked to have had both though =D
How much did he pay for it, out of curiosity?
Burning Wish is one of the cards I most commonly look for in an opening hand, and informs a lot of of my decision trees. Like, in the streamed match that I was featured in on the SCG stream from Columbus a year or so ago, the commentators were like "zomg loose keeps," when it was actually fine because it had a Burning Wish. Wish is either an answer or business, and improves every hand its in. There are few problems it can't solve, even with a minimalistic approach to the wishboard such as the one that I take. I definitely wouldn't cut it from Scapewish. Other decks....that's more debatable. I don't think it's good enough for Punishing, personally, but Punishing also isn't really my speed in general anyway.
As for Zenithable flyer hate, you can run Skylasher, I guess. I think that you're better served to just run some Decays, though -- or just play Punishing if there's a lot of Delver around and you're worried about it. I don't see how Punishing can lose to Delver.dec. That being said, I firmly believe that with tight play and Carpet of Flowers, Nic Fit as an archetype overall is one of the single best answers to Delver.dec in Legacy. Unfortunately, tight play failed me at the end of Day 1.
Silklash Spider, Cloudthresher, Squallmonger, Elvish Skysweeper, Arbor Colossus, Ifh-Biff Efreet, Skylasher.
To name a few.
Lack of creatures ?
15 (+4 GSZ) in Scape which 6 are bound to go to the grave + easily 3 more...
Grave Titan is better but not zenitale so...out of the question.
By the time you could play KEssig I guess most likely you'll have at least 2 creatures in the yard.
Thx.
I think I used Burning Wish reactively exactly five times all weekend. Once it got me a Deluge and ensured I didn't die for a turn against Shardless so I could get to Scapeshift land count. Once it got a Thoughtseize that took my opponent's Batterskull off of Stoneforge. Once it got Pulse and killed a Batterskull. And twice it got Innocent Blood and killed a huge monster. Other than that, I got Pyroclasm once against Painter to try and kill my two Veterans, it got Slaughter Games several times to either cripple my combo opponent before they could do anything or remove their access to Force of Will so I was certain that my game-winning spell would resolve, and most often it was just Scapeshifts 3-6. I don't think removing it from the deck is at all a good idea, nor do I think we're going too far on warping our sideboard because of it- I have only 5-6 cards in my board that live there permanently, which are Pulse, Silence, Scapeshift, Innocent Blood, Toxic Deluge and Slaughter Games (except for Omni), and the rest of my cards are brought in regularly against certain matchups, but I still have access to them game 1.
I agree that if you're feeling weak to Delvers, you *could* play Skylasher but I'd much rather just play some more Decays or even Pyroclasms in the main. Seems way better than a card that is only good in one matchup, and even there it just dies to Bolt. But especially with Carpets, Delver is not really a difficult matchup unless they draw very well and we don't, for the most part.
I'm definitely annoyed at myself because I could have drawn into top 64, but breaker math is hard. I was 62nd going into the last round and there were a LOT of x-3s, so I get why I thought I had to play in the moment, but still. Can't really complain about some insane luck 2-0ing Reanimator and Omni over the weekend.
As for cutting Reverent Silence, I can see why you might want to, especially since Sneak hasn't been boarding Leylines in a while, but I think we just auto-lose to Omni-Tell if we do that, which I'd rather not do. I guess it depends what else you'd rather be doing with the sideboard slot.
I'll mark your words on BW, for now.
Skylasher could be the one I'm looking for. Punishing fire does not belong to scape.
NicFit is probably one of (if not) the best archetype against Tempo.deck but on the average, Scapeshit version is not as good as the punishing one against delver.deck.
Your attempt and mine are IMHO good examples of how we can be beaten by such decks.
Burning Wish for Massacre seems really good right now, with Death and Taxes and True-Names all around. Golgari Charm also seems like a great card to have in your SB if you are playing those two colors.
Toxic Deluge handles both of those threats better, plus other random threats that massacre can't. Specifically against D&T, yes, the cost is free or 1 under Thalia, but against elves, goblins, delvers, goyfs, tnn, the deluge is cheaper. It can also hit an avenger wearing a sword.
I'm REALLY starting to think about Massacre, especially if UWR Delver gets big. Nice plains, bro.
I'm just not sure if that's too much overlap with Pyroclasm and Deluge -- like, 3 sweepers is -a lot-. Unfortunately, Massacre serves a specific niche that Deluge doesn't really fulfill quite as well.
Like, it could be that the From the Ashes slot should just be a Massacre, and that Rev Silence should stay in the board. I need to figure out what else is a viable 2-of sideboard option before I can evaluate whether or not the Massacre + Rev Silence is better, though.
Go ahead and make suggestions. At the moment, these are the contenders:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction / Extirpate
What else is a solid 2-of sideboard option that you guys think Scape might want? Let's make a list.
Oh, you're saying use Massacre in addition to Deluge? I'd say sure if you can find room.
As for additional sideboard slots:
Anything that helps with combo would be awesome. Revoker on LED could buy us some time.
Revoker dies to deed, sure, but we could bring it in against stuff where we would normally side them out. More discard could help.
Golgari charm might work against TNN, but it's only a two of. Then again it's an additional sac outlet for explorer, and the TNN decks don't appear to be running stifle, so... profit.
I top 4ed a grinder at DC
List
3 forest
3 mountain
2 swamp
2 verdent catacombs
2 valakut
2 bayou
4 taiga
3 badlands
2 stomping grounds
1 phyrexian tower
2 thragtusk
3 huntmaster
2 wood elves
4 explorer
2 Sakura tribe elder
1 eternal witness
1 prime evaltitan
4 cabal therapy
4 burning wish
3 deed
2 scape shift
4 green sun zenith
3 top
2 decay
SB
3 REB
2 carpet of flowers
1 pyroclasum
2 slaughter games
1 pulse
1 natures ruin
1 reverent silence
1 thoughtsieze
1 scapeshift
1 reanimate
1 innocent blood
32 man last minute grinder:
Round one I rush to recount my deck list in a hurry. My opponent no shows.
Round two:Elves
Game one he starts off with llanawar elves pass
I go badlands, therapy on nat order. Hit! The rest of the game is derp till I rip my deed
Slam it and he scoops it up.
Game two he natural orders twice and I deed his board, oops he didn't see it on the field :O
Round 3: fish
I'm Finns sum both games up as thrag tusk into deed= scoops
Round 4: DnT
Game one we play magic until I burning wish for pulse over nature ruin.
He proceed to kill me with batter skull, Thalia with a sword of fire ice and a flicker wisp
Game two same thing happens until I go to scape shift and deal zero damage because I'm a mongo.
Game drags on and I rip deed at 8 life with two mana open he attacks for 8 I deed mom away to 1.
Drawn, scoop phase.
18 packs for 20 bucks make 54 cash selling to Troll and toad.
WIN-A-BOX I cut natures ruin for 3rd carpet.
R1 omni
G1 they go show, omni, enter, emerkool turn 2.
G2/3 I rip 3 Rebs thrapys and witness.
They have no hand most of the games and I beat down with huntmaster/witness
R2 bant
G1/G2 we derp till I rip deed into huntmaster thrag tusk.
Game one drags on but I draw many burning wishes into answers.
True name was semi annoying but I draw scapeshift and exact him for 18.
Game two is me at 4 life rip deed kill his goyf, true name, batter skull and sfm board.
We go back and forth till I draw scape shift. Flash back an prior therapy on force. Win.
Sorry about the sloppy report but I'm stuck on my phone.
Can't wait to test and win more with this deck :)
Maverick for life
Arianhod, game 3 of UWR round 9, why didn't you GSZ for 2 for Sakura Tribe Elder, sac if it resolved to get up to four mana and then play Huntsmaster next turn barring nothing else?
Hmm. I'm trying to reconstruct it in my mind but I'm having some trouble. My notes go as such:
t1 20
t2 17 [delver flips naturally, punches]
t3 11 [second delver flips, they both swing, he double wastes me here I think]
my t3 10 [I fetch]
eot my t3 7 [he bolts me EoT]
t4 1 [he swings with both Delvers again]
t5 dead
Actually he might have double Wasted on turn 4, so on turn 3 I could have Zenithed for STE? It's pretty fuzzy at this point. It's entirely possible that I missed the line -- it just would have had to be at the right moment for it to matter. Even if I had the ability to get Hunts out before getting double Wasted I doubt it would have mattered, though, since he would have Bolted Hunts instead of hitting me with it at EoT. Actually, it wouldn't have mattered, because I would have been at 1+3 (bolt) = 4, +2 (Hunts) = 6, which is a double flipped Delver swing. I think I would have died at the same time.
Might have given me mana for a sweeper in my hand, though. I don't even remember what was in my hand when I died :|
@Star Scream,
Ahhh it's a shame we didn't talk, I played in that 149 Legacy+ event and went x-1 losing to the miraculous Joe Lossett. I missed top4 so I left with a bunch of packs and a mat. Interestingly enough, I was also playing BUG Delver. Fun fact, I traded every Theros pack I won for a bunch of Loxodon Smiters (1 Pack), Shock Lands (3-4 packs), Blood Moons (2 packs), and Canonists (1 pack)...
Kevin said hi during day1 and I tried to find him afterwards but the pairings sheet was always down and I kept forgetting to look for additional names before the rounds so I spent the day looking for my mates... The only time I did look up the table numbers and names, the matches were over when I got there.
I am glad I didn't play Nic Fit during the main event because I faced 3 storm (1 all-Foil, 1 all-Black bordered, 1 all-miscut) decks that went off T1 once/twice with 1-2 Duress backup every time in my first 4 rounds, and a SnT deck that went off T1 with FoW backup on r5. If I had to think of one anti-combo deck I would have liked to play (4 FoW, 4 Daze, 4 Stifle, 3 Pierce, 3 Fluster, 2 Envelop, 2 Golgari Charm, and 2 Cliques), it was this one (I went 2-2 vs. combo on day1).
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Jesus. Must be because you lost early and then started winning -- I barely saw any combo at all around me all day.
@Qweerios:
I saw very little combo around me battling through the x-1 bracket as well, maybe you just got lucky, or I did depending on how you look at it. I meant to come track you down and say hi, but between keeping track of everyone else and trading with vendors it just never ended up happening.
I didn't know your name! We were at the same tables if we both went x-1. Round 6 there were 2 judge calls at Kevin's friend's table, and 1 at mine for land drops. I was wearing a bright red DC shirt.
Finally got around to writing a little something up about going 7-2 at the GP. Tournament report linked below, with game descriptions to the best of my recollection.
I had considered audibling to a Miracles/Stoneforge deck but missed too many Counterbalance triggers in testing before the GP to feel comfortable. I think that would have been a really good deck to play if I had made that decision way earlier. So back to old reliable Nic Fit.
Main:
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Eternal Witness
2x Huntmaster of the Fells
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
1x Broodmate Dragon
2x Liliana of the Veil
3x Sensei's Divining Tops
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Punishing Fire
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Bayou
2x Badlands
1x Taiga
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
3x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Mountain
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Kessig Wolf Run
Side:
3x Carpet of Flowers
2x Pyroblast
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Slaughter Games
2x Thoughtseize
1x Innocent Blood
1x Golgari Charm
1x Blood Moon
1x Ensnaring Bridge
It's -1 Garruk Relentless, -1 Punishing Fire, -1 Maelstrom Pulse, +2 Liliana, +1 Abrupt Decay from the previous version of the list I played, with a slightly different sideboard. I had messed around with two value Burning Wishes main but that was too cute (and I missed having the second Witness).
Report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...274#post767274
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