[SCD] True-Name Nemesis

[MGB]

ZOMG did you guys see how many TNN there were in the Top 8 at SCG Providence? They all seemed to lose to cards that don't give a shit about 3/1 creatures. I think that Jared with Sneak Show might be onto something here...

SO what you're saying is that if we want to be competitive in Legacy, and we don't want to lose to TNN, we need to play combo?

Sounds like a healthy format. Your options are combo or playing TNN. Format diversity? Other types of aggro? Why bother, right?

[Derklord]

If this logic were true then mental misstep would not need to be banned. I mean we already have cards that are comparable in power level or even stronger like force of will and daze so why did mental misstep get the axe?

Because Mental Misstep is something that no other card is - a truly free counterspell, one without loss in tempo oder cards. Apart from Mindbreak Trap (which is only a free counter in very narrow conditions), every other free count either bounces lands or exiles/discards cards.

TNN on the other hand is neither the first "hard to kill"-creature nor the first "unblockable" creature. It's "just" better at these things then most others.

[ESG]

Koby, remember the good old days when Maverick was playable?

[Megadeus]

Maverick is still "playable". You just need a little bit of luck.

[nedleeds]

Brainstorm has more appearences than (TNN+SnT) * 2 ... it by far the most bannable of all of these cards ... unban some stuff before you ban a 3/1.

[blacklotus3636]

Because Mental Misstep is something that no other card is - a truly free counterspell, one without loss in tempo oder cards. Apart from Mindbreak Trap (which is only a free counter in very narrow conditions), every other free count either bounces lands or exiles/discards cards.

TNN on the other hand is neither the first "hard to kill"-creature nor the first "unblockable" creature. It's "just" better at these things then most others.

I think your argument is thin. In essence you are trying to say mental misstep>FOW or Daze. Does this line of thinking make sense to anyone?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yup. I agree that mm was just too much for legacy.

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[Lord Seth]

I think Show and Tell is too strong. I think the format would be a lot more diverse without it!

The deck has proven itself to be the best. They banned fucking Survival, they better stop the free Griselbrands...

Is that why other decks do better than it on a fairly consistent basis?

the point is also the hate.

a Pithing Needle is 10 times a stronger hate card then a Meddling Mage on SnT.

there's no possible hate to SnT but counters. That's also very dangerous. And again, SnT fits also in 12 posts, Sneak Show, Omnitell, etc.

So wait, did Karakas, Oblivion Ring/Ashen Rider, Stingscourger, and every single discard card in existence somehow get banned out of the format when I wasn't looking? Because otherwise your statement is hilariously wrong.

it's so much everywhere that decks without answears to that card are just totally helpless in modern meta.

And this is different from every combo deck... how? How many decent decks have no answer to Storm?

and it is 1 single card.

In the same way Grindstone is "1 single card." You still need another combo piece for the combo to work.

[troopatroop]

As soon as they realize Show and Tell restricts design, they're gonna banhammer that shit and mix it up. That's when Nemesis really gets valuable.

[dontbiteitholmes]

As soon as they realize Show and Tell restricts design, they're gonna banhammer that shit and mix it up. That's when Nemesis really gets valuable.

I know I keep saying this and they keep one upping themselves, but whatever.

How much better can S&T targets get at this point then Omniscience, Emrakul, and Grisbrand?

Yes I know I've said this pre all of these cards being printed, but seriously it's not like they are going to print a card that is like "when this enters the battlefield you win the game."

Anyways S&T doesn't restrict design because they obviously don't take it into account when designing cards. If they print a card that legit breaks the format with S&T we can just ban it then. I heard people claim that card was Emrakul, then Grisbrand, then Omniscience but they haven't been right yet.

[BlackPurple]

As soon as they realize Show and Tell restricts design, they're gonna banhammer that shit and mix it up. That's when Nemesis really gets valuable.

Because you think Sneak and Show is doing well since two weeks?
If WoTC really wanted to ban Show and Tell, they would have already done, and would not print Grisel.
The format gives you enough cards to deal with.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

They printed Vengevine and let that SotF shenanigans continue on for a ridiculous amount of time, and it is GREEN. This is blue. Thank the Spaghetti Monster Mystical Tutor isn't still legal...

-ABC

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[rancOr_]

So TNN does put up results as expected. I agree that there are more then enough answers for it and the meta will adjust. Some decks that don't have troubles with TNN and are competitive: Elves, Jund, BG(x),Imperial Painter, Shardless bug, Miracles, ANT, Sneaky Show,.. So there are more then enough decks that can beat TNN decks even non-blue ones. I think pple will realize that Liliana/Toxic deluge are huge atm, and decks like Jund/BG will get more popular as they beat all the fair decks and have a decent shot against combo when build properly.. Also as I said IP laughs at these decks. Same with most combo decks so yeah..no need to worry IMHO. Grtz

[luckme10]

Let's look at the creatures currently banned in Legacy:
Worldgorger Dragon
Goblin Recruiter
Hermit Druid

I don't see anything on this list that isn't enabled part of a game ending combo. And even then I'd wager that Worldgorger Dragon is probably pretty safe to remove in today's metagame. I would be shocked if they started banning creatures again with, of all things, a blue etched champion. What we really need to start addressing is the issue of why people on these forums act like a bunch of abused children whenever WotC shows them a figurative belt, wrench or whatever their dad's beat them with. I thought those kind of discussions are reserved for mtgsalvation.

[TheKingslayer]

Let's look at the creatures currently banned in Legacy:
Worldgorger Dragon
Goblin Recruiter
Hermit Druid

I don't see anything on this list that isn't enabled part of a game ending combo. And even then I'd wager that Worldgorger Dragon is probably pretty safe to remove in today's metagame. I would be shocked if they started banning creatures again with, of all things, a blue etched champion. What we really need to start addressing is the issue of why people on these forums act like a bunch of abused children whenever WotC shows them a figurative belt, wrench or whatever their dad's beat them with. I thought those kind of discussions are reserved for mtgsalvation.

The context is very different. It's a a creature that, once it passes through the stack, interacts in a realm outside of Magic for the most part, when it should be residing in the most intentionally interactive part of the game- creature combat. It has protection from a player. Reasonable cards do not interact with this card in the game.

[Poron]

So wait, did Karakas, Oblivion Ring/Ashen Rider, Stingscourger, and every single discard card in existence somehow get banned out of the format when I wasn't looking? Because otherwise your statement is hilariously wrong.
.

all the card you said don't stop anything at all. They just stop a Show and Tell to Emrakul. Nothing else.

Snt to:

- Omniscence -> Cunning Wish -> Firemind's Foresight -> Wish, Trickbind, anything 1cc -> Trickbind on Oblivion Ring, Ashen Rider, Stingscourger
- Primeval Titan -> he takes his 2 lands anyway for 2U and may be next turn he gets 2 lands again thanks to the bounce.
- Griselbrand -> he draws from 7 to 14 anyway, he just loses the +7 life due to the lifelink

Discard and counters are the only effective way to deal with SnT.

Emrakul is (hironically) the worst drop possible with a Show and Tell.

[Zombie]

Discard and counters are the only effective way to deal with SnT.

Provided they don't hit their 40% chance to blank discard with no mana investment whatsoever, making postboard mulligans vs. them into lottery?
(Did I tell you I hate Leyline of Sanctity?)

[joven]

Already becoming format warping. Should probably be banned but won't be most likely. Wizards hates banning creatures.

Lol, "Wizards hates banning creatures". They act as if there weren't enough of them in the 20000 cards that exist.

Because Mental Misstep is something that no other card is - a truly free counterspell, one without loss in tempo oder cards. Apart from Mindbreak Trap (which is only a free counter in very narrow conditions), every other free count either bounces lands or exiles/discards cards.

TNN on the other hand is neither the first "hard to kill"-creature nor the first "unblockable" creature. It's "just" better at these things then most others.

TNN is the first "almost unkillable" creature. It's way beyond just "untargetable" and beyond just "hard to kill".

Brainstorm has more appearences than (TNN+SnT) * 2 ... it by far the most bannable of all of these cards ... unban some stuff before you ban a 3/1.

Maybe you have a wrong definition of "bannable".
In my opinion it is not just a matter of numbers, or basic lands, Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt should have been banned long before Ice Age. ;)

The context is very different. It's a a creature that, once it passes through the stack, interacts in a realm outside of Magic for the most part, when it should be residing in the most intentionally interactive part of the game- creature combat. It has protection from a player. Reasonable cards do not interact with this card in the game.

Right.
"Protection from a player" is an ability that IMO shouldn't even exist. And the "shouldn't exist" part is were banning comes in.

[Shawon]

I don't like the card either, as it's another stupidly OP'd blue card like Delver, but I'd still rather ban Delver than this guy. TNN costs 3 mana. Win before it matters or make them discard it.

I play Affinity, and I could not give less of a fuck about this card.

EDIT: Actually, here's an answer. If they resolve TNN, you should pause the game, and go to this site: http://www.legalzoom.com/sem/persona...FQbNOgodGUMAbQ

[Zombie]

I seriously don't understand why Delver should be banned before TNN. Delver doesn't belong in blue yes, but it doesn't make for horrible uninteractive games of Magic.