Forgot to update thisOriginally Posted by pfiremc13
-1 wall of blossoms, move batterskull to main, +1 mindbreak trap in side
Back from a long hiatus. Out of curiosity, would throwing a singleton of both Thespian's Stage and Dark Depths to fetch with Prime Time be a good idea?
I feel like Resolved Prime Time in general means you are winning right? Not saying you are wrong or anything. Just my thought.
It was discussed at some point and decided that fetching two treetop villages wins in the same amount of time takes up the same amount of slots and are more useful individually in addition to producing green mana.
Fair enough. Even though its more damage overall, winming in two to three turns is the same no matter how ya go bout it.
Also, another train of thought for BUG variants: Echoing Truth or Maelstrom Pulse?
I feel like I'd much rather have Abrupt Decay than Echoing Truth, and Pulse vs Decay is a bit of a tossup, probably more of a metagame call than anything.
What situations do you want exactly Echoing Truth in? If you want that effect, wouldn't it be better in the sideboard?
Im lost.
Im not doing good at all playing the deck and its really starting to make me question if im really a decent player...
I just can't beat lands and everyone keeps saying that its not a bad match-up, but I just can't seem to win... at all.
I really want to play this deck well, but it seems like I keep hitting a wall where im not making any sort of progress in the slightest.
This is probably more of a expression of frustration that I needed to just put down, but argh is this bothering me something fierce.
Which list are you playing? I have yet to experience that matchup with Scapewish which I imagine is probably an okay matchup, but I would not call it good and it's probably not even favored. I say it might be okay with Scape because you can sometimes just kill them, but I do remember having a really, really hard time with the matchup when I was still playing a more fair version of Nic Fit.
Some matchups are just really tough. Lands, in my experience at least, is one of them for most variants. I wouldn't let it get you down if you're struggling, they operate on a different axis than we want to, which is why Nic Fit is a hard deck for other fair legacy decks to beat. If you want to learn how play the deck well, I recommend practicing against Death and Taxes in particular, but really just jam games against everything, accepting that there are some decks- namely combo and apparently lands- that you will struggle to beat. It's possible that you're taking a wrong approach which we can also help with, but you'd need to give more information for that.
If you're able to get an Ooze out fairly early to attack their graveyard you're pretty far ahead. Thrun beats usually wins it for me after that.
Has there been any word on splitting this thread to make it easier to follow there are three distinct decks being discussed that share the same engine but have little to do with each other if ant and tes deserve different threads I'd say scapewish junk and bug list should be seperated ant and tes differ by maybe ten cards and use the same win cons these decks do completely different things with the lands they get from explorer
Im on a stock Punishing Fire list from the OP so I can get my bearings on whats what....
It either seems like I dont see a zenith, I dont see the Scooze, or they get the stage-depths combo before I can get ooze ready. It also doesnt help that im going up against someone who really has played the deck to a zenith point and knows a lot of its intricacies (It also doesnt help (er, I guess it actually does) that I play at a store where the competition is extremely high and people play decks that they really know...)
mh
had the lands matchup at gp vienna constructed event.
played scapewish so first game i was able to shoot 36 damage over that marit lage.
game 2 i wasn't able to find slaughter games or ramp up in time.
game 3 i slaughtered life from the loam, wished for innocent blood to kill marit lage and my huntmaster token, attacking him down to 4, he played chasm and i drew another burning wish for from the ashes.
tough matchup though.
a lot easier if you resolve slaughter games and play from the ashes in the wishboard.
so i think with punishing fit it will be kinda harder to beat lands ... ^_o
ooze can make this matchup better, exiling loams and/or problematic lands but you still have to watch out for marit lage.
i'll give the rnd md ooze a chance over the 3rd huntmaster, maybe it can improve the combo and lands matchups.
This thread should get split.
Punishing Fire / BUG / Junk (these three could be distinct threads, but they all have similar playstyles, unlike the other two)
Birthing Pod
Scapeshift
The split has been suggested many times in this thread and it does not work. That is why some players put the deck they are currently playing in their signature so we all know what they might be talking about. I do agree it is very confusing to read Nic Fit threads but since we nic fitters are good at confusing people we all fit in really well
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
That was my approach for BOM Paris and since Ooze has not left the main board.
Here are some more "small" changes I've made:
-1 cabal therapy MD
+1 cabal therapy SB.
+1 Thoughtseize MD
-1 Thoughtseize SB.
My meta is combo "infested". Overall, it is a minor change, but it has proven to be a huge asset during game 1 against combo.deck where I want to punish their hand as hard as I can. Having access to 7 "potential" cabal therapy instead of 4 gave me a couple of wins where I would have simply lost, either to accelerate for playing more hate with a veteran in play and no way to get rid of him, or to rip their hand apart.
No need to say that with some luck you could have TS + BW/Cabal therapy in your opening hand for a slug feast...
-1 wood elves
For now, I'm back on the 60 cards plan. The inclusion of slaughter games MD had, what I first thought would not be a problem (but I was wrong), an impact on the mana curve. Basically, we have 2 flexible slots. It used to be "abrupt decay" or whatever...
I stated weeks ago that I've started having more than usual losses against tempo.deck
We could spend hours talking about the "abrupt decay" replacement but I want for now to increase my chances against them without decreasing my combo match-up.
Yeah, I want the milk, the cream, the creammaker and the cream's cash.
So cutting 1 wood elves is a first testing attempt (test is pending). The second (on top of the first) will be to cut a sakura-tribe and put back a couple of abrupt decay.
The last attempt (reverting the previous changes) will be to replace "slaughter games" MD for more discards (2 thoughtseize), freeing 1 slot in SB (hell yeah !). My assumption here being that discard is not THAT bad against tempo (taking a counter/stifle to resolve a deed for instance) and good against combo.
Finally here is my updated SB:
3 carpet
4 REB
1 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal therapy
1 Innocent blood
1 Pyroclasm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom pulse
1 Scape
1 Slaughter
Mark my words here, Meta is changing a bit as we are seeing more and more decks packing creatures with evasion (flying) to counter TNN's arrival. Wood elves and Sakura are no longer as good chump blockers as they were against ground aggro based strategy (for tempo.deck and others). Maybe just a small disturbance in Tarmo's reign or...maybe not !
As you can see from my signature I play 3 decks. Since I will be playing the open Dutch nationals on the 15th of December I wondered how well scapeshift would be positioned in comparison to shardless or team America in a meta that seems to be full of TNN and combo.
Out of these 3 scapeshift is probably the most fun to play but I am not sure about it's chances?
Any input or ideas are welcome.
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
I would say Team America (BUG.Delver) should be a very good choice to fight TNN.decks and combo.
In any case, practise a lot before your tournament.
I've got a local legacy event this weekend and I'm trying to get the drop on the combo decks that seem to plague this town.
I've been testing 2 Slaughter games MB with 4 Cabal Therapy 3 Thoughtseize. In theory, I should have a discard spell in every opening hand this way.
Last night I did some Storm grinding and found that, even with more combo hate, game 1 is like 20% or something stupid like that. I could simply be doing it wrong. Game 2 is significantly better (goes without saying) with Surgical and REB. Keep in mind I was playing against my roommate with a proxy Storm, so he didn't really have a SB to fight me.
What do these bottom-feeders usually bring in against us?
What do you call with Slaughter Games against Dredge?
Also played a few against RUG Delver with the changes and they didn't seem to interfere much when facing a "fairer" deck. I recall seeing 1 Slaughter Games and I used it to name Stifle, not a suboptimal play by any means. That card can single-handedly steal victory from us. Landing a Thrun against RUG is... it's just unfair. Mind you, his regenerate ability can be stifled!
I definitely advise all of you to make proxy decks and have a buddy pilot them against you. It allows you to get into a rhythm of Therapy calls, when to Vet, what to Extract. Plus if your roommate/friend/confidant actually wants you to get better, you can talk about your plays while you make them to decide what's optimal.
I haven't played in a tournament since TNN dropped. My concern is, by gauging my deck more toward combo, this little bastard is going to ambush me.
Of course I have 3 Pernicious Deed 3 Liliana MB, but those confounded blue players sure know how to use counter spells. I also have 1 Toxic Deluge SB which could easily sweep most boards. I'm considering playing 2 in the board. It makes sense considering my Main is slightly more weak to aggro/control, therefore my Side should cater more toward those matches. Yes?
List is in the signature btw. Thanks for your thoughts kiddies!
Edit: I'm also considering a Show and Tell silver bullet in the SB. Hornet Queen? Cute?
Punishing BitchFit http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post757460
Yes Storm is a bad MU. Discard will not always help against a good storm player as they have access to brainstorm and they will likely hide their key spell. Furthermore, with PIF, they can replay every discarded sorcery or instant spells.
Take their tutor (IT, BW), AD or mana boost (DR, CR) depending of their hand / if not go for discard spell.
AD -> LED at EOT or during upkeep.
Your key spell here is "Ooze". Game 1 if you have time to stick him, you will likely win as they have no answer for him. So keep him under discard pressure and land an Ooze. Start eating cantrips and mana boost in the yard.
Game 2, you will likely face spot & mass removal (pyroclasm, chain of vapor, massacre, toxic deluge) -> Same plan as game 1. Surgical extraction on mana boost/tutor will give you a lot of time. Stick an ooze and kill him.
Against dredge -> Ooze again !!!
they will likely bring some mass removal such as firestorm, maybe chain etc..
With Slaughter I would name "Ichorid".
On a blind therapy, turn 1 -> call LED because if they have one in hand, you are likely dead by turn 2 or 3 maximum.
IMO, Worldspine wurm >>>> Hornet Queen.
From my perspective, if you want to fight against combo, you should diversify your threats. For example, lower the discard count by 1, add a DRS to the board -> you will boost your win % against grave.deck strategy.
My Current BUG list right now:
13 Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
10 Disruption/Removal
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Echoing Truth
10 Other Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Batterskull
23 Land
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
3 Swamp
3 Island
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Creeping Tar Pit
15 Side
4 Force of Will
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Negate
2 Gilded Drake
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap
Last edited by EpicLevelCommoner; 12-05-2013 at 01:55 PM.
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