[Primer] Elves!

[PendelSteven]

I think Thorn slows down our game plan more or just as much as Sneaky Show.

Actually, it depends how much searching Show has to do. When every brainstorm, ponder and preordain cost a mana more, it's hard to cast two in the same turn, while you can easily drop two Elves. Actually, it's sort of best at the turn they'd want to S&T, cause then suddenly they don't have enough mana to cast it and sometimes have to pass the turn and you hoof them in that turn, since you're cradle taps for a zillion mana anyhow.

Sure, if Show has the nut draw, it doesn't matter that much. The chances of winning while Thorn is on the board become significantly less though. Please remark this is why Goblins side in Thalia vs Show.

[danyul]

Actually, that bring me to a question: do we kind of run Birchlore Rangers so we can hardcast Ruric Thar?
As I'm running just 1 Llanowar Elves-or-equivalent-there-of, I'm kinda bebating swapping my last Birchlore out, but keep myself convinced I need Birchlore, while I know I've hardcast one with DRS just fine...

So. Who's for and who's against swapping my Birchlore for a Fyndhorn Elves?

I would always play with at least 1 Birchlore Ranger.

I would also always edit my existing posts rather than triple post.

[PendelSteven]

I would always play with at least 1 Birchlore Ranger.

... And that's why you rather cut your 14th initial land for a 2nd Llanowar Elves then :). Sort of makes sense though: if the Elf sticks it's as good as a forest.

And I actually prefer not to quote different people on different sub-subjects in one post :).

[PendelSteven]

I would take Thoughtseize over Extraction almost all of the uses that Extraction is useful.

I've never seen the use of Surgical Extraction and certainly not now when we run DRS in the maindeck. So, I would as well.

[danyul]

... And that's why you rather cut your 14th initial land for a 2nd Llanowar Elves then :). Sort of makes sense though: if the Elf sticks it's as good as a forest.

And I actually prefer not to quote different people on different sub-subjects in one post :).

Yeah if I could find a cut I was comfortable with I would try to shoehorn that 14th real land in. But I haven't personally been able to find one yet. But I'm greedy.

[PendelSteven]

I think I'll swap out my 3rd forest for a Fyndhorn Elves later today, actually. See how that flows. If anything, it decreases the chances of using GSZ for 0, which is a good thing. The other way to solve it, is to simply play with 61 cards. Apparently you can still win a BoM tournament that way ;).

On the 'how it flows': to solve puzzles like you posted - thanks for that by the way - I like to play solitaire. You can always take back stuff physically that way and for some folks who can't visualise things that easily, this makes them visualise it more easily in the meanwhile. I'm not saying everyone should do this, but I'm pretty sure if you don't play that regularly with the deck, like me, it's a very good idea to do regularly.



Oh yeah. By the way, Bazaar of Magic is named after that tournament. Sort of confuses me sometimes, 'cause they - in a very Dutch tradional way - have a program to save points, called BoM points. If you order a lot, that system can pay off, however, 100 points = € 1 off... and shipping is at least € 2.

Kinda shows the uselessness of these Dutch saving programs... The biggest supermarket here has one where you can buy a point for € 0,10 a piece (for every euro you spend, I think) and if you fill your booklet with € 47 of these points, you get € 50 for it. That's a € 3 profit. Depending how many you can fill in a given time, I think putting it on a bankaccount will net you more money. But hey. We're Dutch and we like our saving programs. Sigh.

[Tammit67]

I would always play with at least 1 Birchlore Ranger.

I was skeptical about how much I'd want it until I couldn't generate enough black mana for multiple deathrite activations without it. It's nice.

[PendelSteven]

If Entity was green I would have actually played that iteration of the deck. I love the NO list because we have gone from 4 "important" spells to 7-8 and Progenitus out of the board simply smashes how most decks beat us post-board (Jitte, small sweepers).

If you really like Entity I suppose you could try to fit Gavony Township in your 60 or 61 :). The funny part about Township is that it can be better against decks with counterspells: an uncountarable +1/+1 for the whole team might be better than a countered NO for the same 4 mana. So actually, if anyone wants to try it: go ahead. I love the card and would like to see someone do it. It also seems good in the mirror, vs Golgari Charm, however to be fair, perhaps Ezuri > Township in all of these cases... Any thoughts?

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

I would take Thoughtseize over Extraction almost all of the uses that Extraction is useful.

Sorry to be a little late to the party, but I agree as well. I tested surgical extraction in the sideboard quite and, while I found it especially useful in some circumstances (e.g. reanimator), I found thoughtseize to be more useful more often.

[Chrandersen]

I was interviewed by inside the deck back at the Indy invitational, and the video just came out today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbe-Gut_Ho

pretty basic stuff, but its worth a watch.

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

I was interviewed by inside the deck back at the Indy invitational, and the video just came out today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbe-Gut_Ho

pretty basic stuff, but its worth a watch.

Nice interview. That was fun. How would you say you've refined your thinking since then?

[Benjammn]

If you really like Entity I suppose you could try to fit Gavony Township in your 60 or 61 :). The funny part about Township is that it can be better against decks with counterspells: an uncountarable +1/+1 for the whole team might be better than a countered NO for the same 4 mana. So actually, if anyone wants to try it: go ahead. I love the card and would like to see someone do it. It also seems good in the mirror, vs Golgari Charm, however to be fair, perhaps Ezuri > Township in all of these cases... Any thoughts?

The problem with Gavony is that it only produces mana for less than half of the spells in our deck. You would actually have to replace real cards for Township AND run some Birchlore Rangers, both things I do not like. The idea is good, but the colorless mana is a very strong downside.

[danyul]

I was interviewed by inside the deck back at the Indy invitational, and the video just came out today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbe-Gut_Ho

pretty basic stuff, but its worth a watch.

I have stolen this video and linked it in the primer. I'm sorry. I'm not sorry!

Also I think Gavony Township is a bad idea. But if you crush somebody with it, be sure to get it on video for the lulz.

Edit - Julian's Sideboarding Guide can now be found HERE.

[nudon]

I have stolen this video and linked it in the primer. I'm sorry. I'm not sorry!

Also I think Gavony Township is a bad idea. But if you crush somebody with it, be sure to get it on video for the lulz.

Edit - Julian's Sideboarding Guide can now be found HERE.

Though somewhat dated, here are some more links I've found helpful in the past. Enjoy!

http://legitmtg.com/competitive/hoof-there-it-i/

http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...-denver-top-8/

[LeoCop 90]

Elvish Mystic will be february's FNM promo.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...kjflj_card.jpg

another sweet foil for the deck.

[Lemnear]

Elvish Mystic will be february's FNM promo.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...kjflj_card.jpg

another sweet foil for the deck.

Yes, llanowars are ugly. Still worse than FtV Fyndhorn


Edit: Hey Wizards! I want Symbiote and Quirion as a (new frame) promo!

[Dice_Box]

I do not like Foils to start with, add in crop art and you have a totally craptastic card that I am happy to pass over.

That said I do have foil Visionaries in my deck. That promo art... I caved.

[Julian23]

Ok guys, I think I'd never get to respond if I don't just take some time out of my schedule and sit down. So let's see...


@Lans89: I wouldn't bring in Thorn of Amethyst against Sneak Show. You're spending your turn doing nothing which cuts down on the usefulness of your discard in the first place. I also wouldn't side it in against Dredge (def. not on the play!) as the plan is to just be faster than them while dodging Cabal Therapies with either an active Deathrite on drawstep or even in mainphase if their dredging ends with a Narcomoeba trigger on the stack.

I like your suggestion of siding out 1 Dryad Arbor against Storm, I will actually try that in the future. Regarding which Elves to cut, you will see that I side out 3 Elvish Visionary against Storm but only 1 or 2 against the slower combo decks. This is because I feel especially against slower combodecks, you often end up in situations where both of you exhaust your hands pretty quickly because of the early-game discard assault. In situations like these, Elvish Visionary is a perfectly fine card to draw as it helps you to be the first one to draw into either your 2nd Glimpse or NO as the first one will almost always be easily countered. Most of the time I don't want 4, as that's a bit on the slow side but anything less than 4 feels fine to me.

Tammit67: I'm really happy seeing you do so well with the deck. Keep Hoof'ing them! Also props for actually getting there against Miracles with Arbor beatz!

BJeagle: Surgical Extraction on removal is not where you really want to be sitting as it is a very weak play overall. Most of the time it will be card disadvantage and the rare occurences where you might be able to actually hit a card out of their hand are even less likely as they require a scenario in which your opponent didn't have the mana to just cast their spells in response, putting you further behind. In the worst case scenario, you are actually giving them a free removal spell in the way that the card you drew was not an Elf (or anything else meaningful) but a spell with no impact. The strategic value of 1 SE against Miracles can be debated as these games are usually very long and drawn out and unlike Bolt or StP, Terminus can't be cast in response....but still Thoughtseize is the much stronger card as it is able to stop public enemy#1 Sensei's Divining Top or at least Counterbalance or Force of Will.

PendelSteven: Birchlore Ranger is by far most important for Machinegunning your DRS, manafixing off GSZ postboard as well as sometimes being required to be in your deck in order to continue a Glimpse chain. After all of that, Ruric Thar is like only 4th priority.

@Gavony Township: it produces colorless mana...I call madness!. On top of that, win more much? Because it is.


Right now, I am experimenting with -1 Taiga +1 Cavern of Souls. Last tournament it just went ahead and stole 2 games against MonoU Control (with CB) and a guy that kept spamming several Chalices. Of course, having only 1 in the deck is random but (as with Ruric against Storm) it is incredibly impactful in the matchups where you want it (Miracles) while still providing some splash-damage use against about 50% of the field. On the plus side, it still casts Ruric Thar, although it's no longer fetchable of course. The downside is a slightly increased vulnerability to Wasteland (although this is a bit, but surely not completly outweighed by being able to play right into Daze) while also being unbounceable with Quirion Ranger which has been an issue for me during 1 of my matches last weekend.


Ok guys, back to work! Any of you wanna come to Kenya? We were just name the World's Leading Safari Destination in 2013! If you can't make it this year, I am pretty sure the animals will be here in 2014 as well

[PendelSteven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcbe-Gut_Ho
pretty basic stuff, but its worth a watch.

Actually, I never got why Meekstone was good. Mind you, I have ordered a 2nd one not too long ago, since it is included in your decklist.
So thank you for explaining why I have two now :D

I even think I've played against RUG Delver and forgot that an unflipped Delver doesn't fly...
Having said that, my record vs Delver is aweful nonetheless. 2 2-0 and a 1-1-1 vs RUG and 2-0 vs RUW so far, although the funny part is that that RUW player played RUG at the Bazaar of Moxen where Julian played (Steve, from near Antwerp).

But ehm. Yeah. Meekstone. Guess I should try to fit those in as well.

@Lord_of_Rivendell: I presume Chris has done minor little tweaks like moving the 2nd Dryad Arbor to the mainboard. That one sort of goes without saying these days pretty much, or not?


@Julian23: Cavern of Souls? Using it kind of like

?


@danyul: so I took out a forest and was sort of manaflooded the five or six sollitairegames I played. I even shipped a 7-lander back. So I guess the spell/land-ratio is fine :). Actually, I now see that Chris runs this ratio as well. Can't say he has a bad record with it :)

[Julian23]

Meekstone is a card that has shown very good results thus far while playing some games with it on Magic Online. It's definitely a great card agaisnt Canadian and helps a lot in improving the matchup. The only problem, as usual is, which cards to cut from the sideboard for it. Right now I'm running to but I cheated a bit in the way that I actually cut cards for the combo matchup for it..