Would you like to see True-Name Nemesis gone?

[Tormod]

Depth Charge

Instant
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player.
KABOOOOMMM!

Totally happening next set.

you forgot split second, that it draws a card
and alt cost: return a blue card from your graveyard to your hand

[jimmythegreek]

Depth Charge

Instant
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player.
KABOOOOMMM!

Totally happening next set.

Its funny cuz psionic blast is a card...but not a card....get it ?

[lavafrogg]

This thread is so rediculous.

The only thing bad about nemisis is that it is blue. The protection from player fits the theme and flavor of the card and is kind of interesting in and of itself.

That being said the card should be white and DnT should be an even better deck, giving us a plethora of decks that don't play blue. I think wizards does a good job for the most part but they really need to push other colors for a little bit. 1WW would have given stoneforge a great creature to equip to and would have felt the flavor of white a hell of a lot more.

Also, if the card would have been 2/2 first strike pro: player for 1WW it would have been a normal card instead of the garbage grey have us.

That being said a 3/1 clock is not that great, and for three mana you can get creatures that do a hell of a lot more that nemisis, I'm looking at you knight of the reliquary.

Cool card, aweful color, I wouldn't be mad if it didn't happen.

[Shawon]

The only thing bad about nemisis is that it is blue. The protection from player fits the theme and flavor of the card and is kind of interesting in and of itself.

I can buy the claim that 'protection from player' is a blue theme, since it's also a Rogue and Rogue creatures are good at infiltration as shown through mechanics like shadow or unblockability. However, the guy should have come with a "can't block" clause on it, not only to make it more balanced, but it makes the "protection from a player" mechanic seem more dedicated to singling out a player, such that creatures aren't even acknowledged by the True-Name Nemesis since it only cares about its nemesis, the chosen player. But whatever, the damage has been dealt, so now we must deal and adapt.

[Fatal]

Yes// Preventing dmg on blocks (protection) is so damn blue..

I think Wizards should get red card for printing such a shitty cards - nothing more - unless we get more of them or Blue StP - since its so damn blue, then you have no reason to splash any colors.

[coraz86]

"Protection from player" is like a joke ability from Unglued. Ban this crap from legacy asap.

Yeah, "protection from player" sounds like a Pimp: the Backhanding card.

[Ellomdian]

Should TNN be banned? No.

Would I like to see it gone? No.

Would I like to see people adapt more rapidly to changing environmental factors, and break out of their precious envelopes?

I feel like the question answers itself...

[Dice_Box]

Yeah, "protection from player" sounds like a Pimp: the Backhanding card.

I read that title and thought "Bet that's a White Wolf game." Yep.

[Higgs]

Would I like to see people adapt...

And there you're missing the whole point. It's not about not being smart enough to play some more Verdict/Zealous Persecution/Golgari Charm/Massacre/Deluge... It's about design, principles and this game's direction.

The least of my worries would be to be able to beat TNN when I'm already playing Miracles (read buncha sweepers) and Storm (read don't care about TNN), and when I already have the cards for Patriot and Esperblade sitting in my binder to sleeve up some TNN decks. Dismissing the complaints as losers whining would be playing 3 monkeys. Like Maro.

[Griselpuff]

I literally cannot stand this card. Watching SCG coverage with Jacob Wilson TNN vs. the EsperBlade player's TNN is just so. fucking. dumb.

[HSCK]

I like that it enables interactive decks, despite its lack of interactivity. Keep it.

[Arsenal]

I like that it enables interactive decks, despite its lack of interactivity. Keep it.

What exactly is TNN enabling? Every deck that TNN sees play in existed before TNN.

[menace13]

I like Shawon's idea on the no blocking clause. Who knew that an easily castable, non-legendary creature with shroud, immune to damage, protection from creatures, abilities, and spells would be good?

Stoneforge Mystic has found her bff. Esperblade seems like the best fit at the moment and URW Delver would be my 2nd choice. There isn't much reason to not play it with equipment because it beats any other castable creature across the board. It can't be pinned down to wall mode by larger goyf/KotR if I'm playing removal and Jitte. The game is likely over unless wipes. sacs, negative counters. Figthng it on the stack can easily be mitigated by discard, counters, Cavern, or Vials(not played currently). I can protect it from discard, and sweepers with cantrips, discard and counters. Very little investment for the value it brings to blue decks. Crushes creature decks. It's not like those decks can't beat combo either because I put TNN and Mystic in the 75.

[btm10]

I'm actually most interested by what the long-run equilibrium metagame will be. If TNN is going to drive more people into combo (to race him) and RUG (because RUG can/does run him and RUG is good against combo), doesn't that just strengthen "real" control decks like Miracles since they have (or in principle can have) answers to both?

The only card I can think of being banned/restricted because it was "unfun" is Trinisphere in Vintage circa 2003/2004, and even in that case there was a legitimate concern over format-warping as well. I don't see that happening with TNN. It is, after all, a creature that dies to about a thousand removal spells. And even if it does end up making Delver decks so good in the long run that a ban would be warranted, I'd sign up to see Balance unbanned before banning TNN.

[menace13]

It is, after all, a creature that dies to about a thousand removal spells. And even if it does end up making Delver decks so good in the long run that a ban would be warranted, I'd sign up to see Balance unbanned before banning TNN.

By a thousand you mean like 7? Balance?

[Zombie]

I'd sign up to see Balance unbanned before banning TNN.

This statement is insane.

[btm10]

By a thousand you mean like 7? Balance?

Off the top of my head: Terminus. Supreme Verdict. Wrath of God. Liliana of the Veil. Chainer's Edict. Diabolic Edict. Innocent Blood. Smallpox. Zealous Persecution. Pernicious Deed. Massacre. I could do this all day. And this ignores the fact that Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast can stop him on the stack for .

This statement is insane.

The only argument against it is that it blows aggro completely out of the water, and that's already happened. The current metagame wouldn't be dominated by Rack/Balance or anything even remotely resembling it. And even if that domination happened, I'd rather have a comical throwback metagame for a season than ban a creature that didn't absolutely have to be banned because you were too lazy to find an answer.

[menace13]

Off the top of my head: Terminus. Supreme Verdict. Wrath of God. Liliana of the Veil. Chainer's Edict. Diabolic Edict. Innocent Blood. Smallpox. Zealous Persecution. Pernicious Deed. Massacre. I could do this all day.
.

Wrath = Verdict, so you're down 1. Lol a Smallpox, really reaching there. I will gift you with an EE because I'm nice. So that brings you back to.... 7?

And this ignores the fact that Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast can stop him on the stack for .

Ummm....

It is, after all, a creature that dies to about a thousand removal spells.

We werent on that were we now?

[Aggro_zombies]

I'm actually most interested by what the long-run equilibrium metagame will be. If TNN is going to drive more people into combo (to race him) and RUG (because RUG can/does run him and RUG is good against combo), doesn't that just strengthen "real" control decks like Miracles since they have (or in principle can have) answers to both?

The interaction you've laid out here is a pretty textbook example of a format warping around a particular card, actually. You are playing a deck that never needs to interact with it (combo), a deck that runs it (some sort of U/x/y tempo or midrange deck), or a deck that preys on the decks in the second category.

It's also worth noting that many of the removal spells you've listed are not things that are playable across a huge category of decks. The sweepers basically only go in some sort of Miracles deck or Tier 2/Tier 2.5 Homebrew Control decks. The black spells will see play in Jund or BUG (a deck that can run its own Nemeses) and then a bunch of Tier 2.5 or below decks like Pox. Pyroblast and REB are nice and all, but red has basically no answers to a resolved TNN, so relying on them to protect yourself is super dicey; they end up being better in TNN decks as sideboard options against other TNN decks than they are in decks that don't want to run TNN.

And that's the problem. You're not so much building to a metagame, you're building to a single card. It chases non-TNN aggro decks out of the metagame because they're not fast enough to race it, don't have good solutions to it (are you seriously going to sweep your own board away for one TNN?), and can't exactly ignore it. It forces midrange decks to run blue for their own TNNs plus counters for answers, or makes them run a bunch of awkward do-nothing sideboard options like Golgari Charm in the hopes of beating it. It strengthens combo decks, which were clearly already paragons of interactivity for non-blue decks.

If TNN isn't a clear signal that you should be playing Brainstorm or you're doing it wrong, I don't know what is.

[Amon Amarth]

Regarding TNN and other aggro decks: Goblins at least has Piledriver, Krenko and removal for the equipment that makes TNN a real threat. Theoretically, it shouldn't make the midrange matchups that bad, though I haven't been able to test them as of yet.