[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[tons of fun]

If you want a card that's only good against combo deck, run good combo hate. The echoing truths are really not going to do very much against a tendrils for 20.



Describe how the mindbreaks have been working. What are they good at? Why don't you like them?



There's a more updated thune fit list here:

http://mythicgameselmira.com/article/updatingthune.html


There are other potential routes you could take with GBW. Non-pod, pod without thune combo, etc. I'd be happy to work with you on thune fit; otherwise you can talk to other people who might know more about other versions of GBW.

well i had then in for against ad nusam decks keeping then on top with the top and drawing them when they are needed but there too narrow of a function for what my list does my deck i like cuz there free i just barely us them

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Just thought of something cute for the sideboard of BUG Lists: Melira, Sylovk Outcast with Glen Elendra Archmage. The biggest problem I had pre-hiatus against combo wasn't the initial blowout, but the fact that it took so long after "stabilizing" to win that they just came back with a vengeance. Archmage+Outcast helps in that regard.

60 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Forest
3 Island
3 Swamp

15 Side
4 Force of Will
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Mind Break Trap
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 [Flex Slot]

[TheArchitect]

Congrats on the finish Kevin.

I know you love a good slaughter games, but what about running 2 thoughtseize in that slot in the MD and moving games to the SB. Games is really bad in some matchups while thoughtseize basically never is.

[tons of fun]

Just thought of something cute for the sideboard of BUG Lists: Melira, Sylovk Outcast with Glen Elendra Archmage. The biggest problem I had pre-hiatus against combo wasn't the initial blowout, but the fact that it took so long after "stabilizing" to win that they just came back with a vengeance. Archmage+Outcast helps in that regard.

60 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Forest
3 Island
3 Swamp

15 Side
4 Force of Will
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Mind Break Trap
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 [Flex Slot]

i like some of this idk about the snaps really thats might be seeing some action with me but the brainstorms didnt work very well alot of draw but less things to do with it

[EpicLevelCommoner]

i like some of this idk about the snaps really thats might be seeing some action with me but the brainstorms didnt work very well alot of draw but less things to do with it

True: Snaps are really a weak point, and truth be told the only reason I'm running them (and formerly Echoing Truth) is to up my blue count G2 and G3 for Force of Will if I need to bring them in. Not too sure what would work better: maybe Archaeomancer?

Brainstorms are good just because of all the shuffling Nic Fit does in general: there has been a lot of trials where I could see at least 1-of every card in my library thanks to JMS, Brainstorm, and Top digging and Explorer, Fetchland, Prime-Time, Intent, and GSZ shuffling by turn 6.

[tons of fun]

True: Snaps are really a weak point, and truth be told the only reason I'm running them (and formerly Echoing Truth) is to up my blue count G2 and G3 for Force of Will if I need to bring them in. Not too sure what would work better: maybe Archaeomancer?

Brainstorms are good just because of all the shuffling Nic Fit does in general: there has been a lot of trials where I could see at least 1-of every card in my library thanks to JMS, Brainstorm, and Top digging and Explorer, Fetchland, Prime-Time, Intent, and GSZ shuffling by turn 6.

ok but the force idk either just cuz the fact u are two for oning urself, and the fact is u can't recure them

[mini1337s]

Just thought of something cute for the sideboard of BUG Lists: Melira, Sylovk Outcast with Glen Elendra Archmage. The biggest problem I had pre-hiatus against combo wasn't the initial blowout, but the fact that it took so long after "stabilizing" to win that they just came back with a vengeance. Archmage+Outcast helps in that regard.

60 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Forest
3 Island
3 Swamp

15 Side
4 Force of Will
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Mind Break Trap
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 [Flex Slot]

Perhaps Regrowth would be better than Snapcaster Mage in the main? It doesn't help your Blue count for FoW out of the side, but it gives you a lot more flexibility. There is some downside to sorcery speed and not getting a body, but being about to bring back Deed or a card like Thragtusk seems pretty huge.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Perhaps Regrowth would be better than Snapcaster Mage in the main? It doesn't help your Blue count for FoW out of the side, but it gives you a lot more flexibility. There is some downside to sorcery speed and not getting a body, but being about to bring back Deed or a card like Thragtusk seems pretty huge.

At that point, I'd just run more Witnesses ;). I'm liking a 2-1 split between Archaeomancer and Eternal Witness though, especially since Archaeomancer costs the same CMC as GSZ for Witness. Plus it isn't necessarily dead game 1 with 4 Brainstorm, 2 Decay, 2 Pulse, 4 GSZ, 1 Intent, and 4 Therapy.

Still trying to figure out what to put for that flex slot in the side: any suggestions?

[Nithkar]

the reason or no pod it is more about the soul bound and a good portion of my deck. the pod doesnt flow with how it plays as much

I found out the same when i tried to play with Arianrhod Deadeye fit list, but didn't liked to rely on Empath to come across the engine. I then tried pod and felt the same as you. But seeing your deck made an idea strike my mind, since i'm currently toying with an BUGW Pod Moat list: what do you guys think of poding Reveillark into Deadeye?

Theoretically, we could bring any 2 of our previous pod chain targets back, then pair with deadeye to an amazing lock. And being a BUGW list, that would mean mystic snake, Glen Elendra, pontiff, harmonic sliver, strix, witness, abyssal gatekeeper, bone shreder, all for a board lock or card advantage.

But i have been having problems with the manabase, as it gets a little stretchy. Adding a fourth color made me reduce the number of fetches traditionally used on pod list to 6 instead of 8, which made deathrites a little less reliable and thus resulting on an addition of one land and a slightly slower deck. With this, i have less of the already scarce space that pod demands so much. And, with less fetches, the stretchy manabase and less space, i found difficult to manage library manipulation (brainstorm, SDT, i really don't know how and if to fit them in there).

Second, i really fear this build up being too much vulnerable to GY hate, and to exiling creatures in general. Maybe the fact that reveillark bring back 2 creatures can compensate for that, but i don't know. Also, i can't stop thinking that a well timed plowshares can really delay the pod decks.

And finally, there is the problem of too much reliability on pod, brought out many times in this tread by many pod fit players. Although i think that the utility creatures and the flying bombs that i run can normally make up for the early absence of pod (being good enough by themselves), and that the sidebord these colors have access can really hold up games against faster non-fair clocks, there is kind of the same problem Commoner Brought up: after the initial disrupt, i don't know if the deck can come up fast enough with the lock down board state. But, once you've reached it, time to win should be no problem.

So I really want to know what you guys think: if the 4 color pod is worth it, if it would be better on a bant non fit shell, if is not worth it at all. I'd also like to hear from Tons of Fun how the living wish have been performing (for sake of comparison) and from Qweerios (actually, reveillark came from his list :D) on the insights of his pod list (in general and utility card choices performances), since the last i heard he was pretty satisfied with it, and he also didn't run brainstorm nor top. If you want, i can also share the 62 card list i'm using, because god knows i could use help in card choices (for exemple, i can't stop hating not running thune combo, since the line pod feeder -> Rector -> Thune + nightmare -> feeder can just win games on the spot).

[EpicLevelCommoner]

No need to run white just for Reveillark. Just run BUG Pod and incorporate 1-2 Body Doubles in your 5 CMC slot. Best part is they turn into any creature already in your graveyard, meaning you can pair it with Deadeye one turn and then blink three times next turn for a Witness effect, Thragtusk effect, and a Mystic Snake effect, all three in your graveyard because ya chained into them.

... ya know ... I'm kinda psyching myself out about Double Deadeye shenanigans ... thanks for the inspiration ^_^

EDIT:

Birthing Twins
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Coiling Oracle
1 Melira Sylvok Outcast
2 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Mystic Snake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Thragtusk
1 Body Double
1 Deadeye Navigator
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
3 Island
3 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower

[Nithkar]

The thing about Reveillark is that you could pod itself into deadeye and still get the value for him. Body double, on the other way, can't be used on the same chain to get Deadye, you would have to find one of the pieces on other chain or some other way (and neither are zenithable). And white isn't just for reveillark. Orzhov Pontiff, Tegg and Cannonist are very relevant hate that white has access, besides having Baneslayer and Sigarda as game finishers, and rector for generall enchantment utility.

[tons of fun]

I found out the same when i tried to play with Arianrhod Deadeye fit list, but didn't liked to rely on Empath to come across the engine. I then tried pod and felt the same as you. But seeing your deck made an idea strike my mind, since i'm currently toying with an BUGW Pod Moat list: what do you guys think of poding Reveillark into Deadeye?

Theoretically, we could bring any 2 of our previous pod chain targets back, then pair with deadeye to an amazing lock. And being a BUGW list, that would mean mystic snake, Glen Elendra, pontiff, harmonic sliver, strix, witness, abyssal gatekeeper, bone shreder, all for a board lock or card advantage.

But i have been having problems with the manabase, as it gets a little stretchy. Adding a fourth color made me reduce the number of fetches traditionally used on pod list to 6 instead of 8, which made deathrites a little less reliable and thus resulting on an addition of one land and a slightly slower deck. With this, i have less of the already scarce space that pod demands so much. And, with less fetches, the stretchy manabase and less space, i found difficult to manage library manipulation (brainstorm, SDT, i really don't know how and if to fit them in there).

Second, i really fear this build up being too much vulnerable to GY hate, and to exiling creatures in general. Maybe the fact that reveillark bring back 2 creatures can compensate for that, but i don't know. Also, i can't stop thinking that a well timed plowshares can really delay the pod decks.

And finally, there is the problem of too much reliability on pod, brought out many times in this tread by many pod fit players. Although i think that the utility creatures and the flying bombs that i run can normally make up for the early absence of pod (being good enough by themselves), and that the sidebord these colors have access can really hold up games against faster non-fair clocks, there is kind of the same problem Commoner Brought up: after the initial disrupt, i don't know if the deck can come up fast enough with the lock down board state. But, once you've reached it, time to win should be no problem.

So I really want to know what you guys think: if the 4 color pod is worth it, if it would be better on a bant non fit shell, if is not worth it at all. I'd also like to hear from Tons of Fun how the living wish have been performing (for sake of comparison) and from Qweerios (actually, reveillark came from his list :D) on the insights of his pod list (in general and utility card choices performances), since the last i heard he was pretty satisfied with it, and he also didn't run brainstorm nor top. If you want, i can also share the 62 card list i'm using, because god knows i could use help in card choices (for exemple, i can't stop hating not running thune combo, since the line pod feeder -> Rector -> Thune + nightmare -> feeder can just win games on the spot).

hey, the list mckee put up of deadeye fit was my original list that i asked him to put up to get opions cuz i didnt feel like making acount on here tha orginal list we started with wasvery clunky and had alot of issues due to being to relent on the deadeye lock

[HardBrain]

1 Yosei, the Morning Star
2 Archangel of Thune
3 Academy Rector
1 Sun Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Spike Feeder
4 Veteran Explorer

2 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Oblivion Ring

1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Savannah
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Plains
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Nevermore
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Choke


i think deck have so many answers that its enought o handle match with combo and fair deck. We are combo too with Thune+Feeder or Melira+Finks+Varolz Infinite life...thune add infinite dmg to it. Anyone think similar like me? it is good deck for playin?

[Megadeus]

Forces are nice but I don't think they're completely necessary. A mixture of discard and more Glen Elendra Archmages could probably do the trick a good percentage of the time. You could also try Mindbreak Trap or Arcane Lab.

I'm trying out a slight white splash tonight in BUG Pod, I'll let you know how it goes.

Fair. I have Thoughtseizes (The one good thing to come out of Theros!), and I could definitely borrow forces for major events at least. Glen Elendra seems so hilariously good vs combo.

[Nils Gutiérrez]

I am testing Tao's Rector fit deck, and it's working pretty good.
It has a good matchup against all the tempo decks in the current meta, and nemesis isn't a problem for it. However, i haven't found any way to beat Jace.

[Arianrhod]

I am testing Tao's Rector fit deck, and it's working pretty good.
It has a good matchup against all the tempo decks in the current meta, and nemesis isn't a problem for it. However, i haven't found any way to beat Jace.

I've been starting to think that despite the fact that the new legend rule kind of dicks it over, Faith's Fetters may still be correct. Most "jace decks" are down to 2, MAYBE 3 copies due to True-Name having a good matchup against Jace as a card. While it's still not ideal, Fetters does shut down Jace for some number of turns while they need to dig up another one, which could buy us the necessary time to stabilize.

--Edit ---

It should be noted that Exclusion Ritual exists. That being said, I think that Ritual is just too damned expensive, and I remember that the 4 life on Fetters saved my ass more times than I care to admit.

[GtF]

Fair. I have Thoughtseizes (The one good thing to come out of Theros!), and I could definitely borrow forces for major events at least. Glen Elendra seems so hilariously good vs combo.

Yeah, it is. I run 1 main and 1 in the board. Riptide Pilferers have also been great.
I tried out the white splash and it worked pretty well. I played a Gaddock Teeg against tendrils combo and Green Sun's Zenith'd for Harmonic Sliver (though this slot could have been Viridian Shaman anyway since I killed an artifact). The only card I didn't really use was Orzhov Pontiff, which was the main reason for the white splash. Still, the mana base held up and I didn't lose to my colors in the 4 rounds.


Jace is a big issue for both pod versions since the creatures the pod deck plays are pretty small and it's hard to pressure it if they put up any resistance. Deed and Abrupt Decay also don't kill it. Phyrexian Revoker and Maelstrom Pulse are probably the best options, besides therapying it out of their hand.

[HardBrain]

I am testing Tao's Rector fit deck, and it's working pretty good.
It has a good matchup against all the tempo decks in the current meta, and nemesis isn't a problem for it. However, i haven't found any way to beat Jace.

1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Spike Feeder
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Academy Rector
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast

1 Oblivion Ring
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Pernicious Deed

2 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Savannah
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Plains
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath


SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Nevermore
SB: 1 Nether Void
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Choke

This is my BGW Rector. we can go combo with thune, we can go combo with melira/varolz/finks. also we have our <3 Rectors to get o.ring on jace if you want. on sb list i put curse for Tnn / taxes / aggro /elves. Stony Silance is agains MUD. what do you think about the list?

[Megadeus]

Yeah, it is. I run 1 main and 1 in the board. Riptide Pilferers have also been great.
I tried out the white splash and it worked pretty well. I played a Gaddock Teeg against tendrils combo and Green Sun's Zenith'd for Harmonic Sliver (though this slot could have been Viridian Shaman anyway since I killed an artifact). The only card I didn't really use was Orzhov Pontiff, which was the main reason for the white splash. Still, the mana base held up and I didn't lose to my colors in the 4 rounds.


Jace is a big issue for both pod versions since the creatures the pod deck plays are pretty small and it's hard to pressure it if they put up any resistance. Deed and Abrupt Decay also don't kill it. Phyrexian Revoker and Maelstrom Pulse are probably the best options, besides therapying it out of their hand.

I plan on running a thrun when I get it built which should help vs non liliana walkers.

[Cire_dk]

I am testing Tao's Rector fit deck, and it's working pretty good.
It has a good matchup against all the tempo decks in the current meta, and nemesis isn't a problem for it. However, i haven't found any way to beat Jace.

I tried to find the list in the primer and in his sig but cannot find it. Is there another link to the list?
I know Kevin (gratz on results last weekend btw. Nice to see interview) has a Rector fit list but it has not been updated for a while now.