My answer thus far has been to PI their SFM and race them. This has been working for me and using my TNNs to block to prevent them from getting jitte counters or life from batterskull is easy to do unless they put stuff on a TNN themselves.
I think pithing needle is a decent option but what about stifle? Using that on a SFM can screw up a keep able hand. I know its not a card we actively play but it has a thousand other uses too. Just a thought.
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Windmill I can't see why ANT would be a problem. I havent played a lot against it but I'm happy to face it, even though I normally only bring 8-9 counters maindeck.
Jund is a bit problematic but TNN + Image is unbeatable. I have much more trouble against Death and Taxes, Mom is a serious treat as SFM is, even Revoker on vial/jitte and these new versions with Flickerwisps, Mindcensor and Serra Avengers
The problem with Chalice is that you want Needle in the MU where you also want Chaņice, I'm thinking about Miracles/Blade. If you are not planning bring Needles in those MU's maybe you'd prefer Cursed Totem which also shuts down Elves.
The problem is that we can't keep every turn one nana open in case we need Stifle. It's sometimes dificult to get double UU, imagine if we need UUU... We have too many XUU costs, and we want to lay a creature on the 2 turn always, and now on the third problably too.Originally Posted by Syntex
Of course with vial the situation is diferent, but that doesnt happen always
I was thinking about a Manriki-gusari in the SB to fetch with the Images, however they always kill me the other creature then so I can't not equip to Image...
Glad to hear that ANT wouldn't be a problem. I have no experience playing against it (new to legacy and constructed in general). Would you play more counters in sideboard, or Standstills?
Yes - TNN + Image makes this match-up much more bearable.
I haven't had experience playing D&T but I've seen it/watched it a bit. Mom is a serious threat. If they hard-cast her, then hopefully we can counter or dismember her before she loses summoning sickness. The problem though is that so many things in that deck are a threat. I think what we need to do is, like Stoneblade, figure out what are the main enablers that need to be answered. What would you say they are? I'll start it off:
- Mother of Runes (lets them chump and blank our meager removal)
T1 Solution: stop their T1 vial. That way, we force them to hard-cast their Mom and we can counter it with Daze or FOW. They get summoning sickness on their turn before they untap, and then we have dismember as a backup.
T2 Solution: We can sideboard in 1 dismember, and we can also have a late-game answer of Jitte.
- Stoneforge Mystic (Equipment we literally can't deal stop coming into play (the worst for us being Sword of Fire and Ice if they have a vial and Stoneforge Mystic on the battlefield)
T1 Solution: once again, stopping their T1 vial jam. That way, we can counter their Stoneforge Mystic. As a backup if we only have spell pierce on hand, if there isn't a Mom on the board or she has been tapped we can dismember the Stoneforge and then spell pierce the equipment into oblivion.
T2 Solution: pithing needles shore this up for us and it really doesn't matter if they get equipment at all. I think in this meta, pithing needle is an auto-4 include in the SB. The Stoneforge Mystic merely becomes a becomes a 1/2 creature. We can feel free to use our counters on Mom.
Looking at this, we have answers, even if they aren't pretty answers: but they require us to stop a T1 Aether Vial, and that is the beating heart of the problem. Would you agree?
Cursed Totem is a great SB card against Elves, but it really only seems to answer elves, or am I wrong? The reason I chose Chalice is it'll cost the same, and it can hit other decks too. I don't understand why it is bad that we have extra hate for decks that we also need pithing needle for. If it hurts our decks too much - then we don't necessarily have to play it!
I agree. Pithing needle costs 1, it lasts forever, it does exactly what we want for no fuss. If we stifle SFM for a turn, the most is we've gotten them to waste 2 mana and maybe the turn. But against Deathrite Shaman decks, by T3 (when you'll be stifling them) they have ramped to 4 mana anyway and can just play it again. Pithing needle does everything we need, for 1 colourless, and in addition it can hit tonnes of other things as well.
I actually considered this too. What put me off as this:
1. Pithing needle will, 100%, shut off the equipment anyway, which is all we need. If we can stop the equipment, then I believe in those match-ups with our TNNs, Vial and Images we have a strong advantage.
2. Pithing needle costs 1 to play. This costs 2. We can stop a T3 spell pierce, or a T3 daze if we didn't draw a third land.
3. With pithing needle, we have enough mana left to cast another Merfolk that turn, keeping us aggressive without having to be taxed by our hate.
4. This is a very narrow answer, when pithing needle hits a lot of things. By the time they cast their equipment, with a Deathrite Shaman deck they could easily have it equipped the next turn. In which case, they'll get to swing anyway before we play our answer - and potentially draw another card, and hit a dude. If we were willing to take a hit, then we might as well play Carry Away instead.
5. Bad synergy with Stifle.
So - for now I still like Pithing Needle but would love more suggestions from people!
Well, if Jund manages to get rid of your Lords (as it should, with all the removal it packs), TNN + Image just get screwed by a single Golgari charm, right?
You Stifle the SFM come-into-play trigger so he never gets to search for the equipment. Stifling a SFM activation is inane, for exactly the reasons you suggested. I played with Stifle in Merfolk a lot recently and it does have a lot of play. I ended up going back to Spell Pierce because it's more useful in more matchups, but Stifle + Wasteland + Daze is absolutely a deck, and a strong one. You have little trouble keeping mana up in a deck that has Aether Vial.
Pithing Needle does nothing against varied equipment, which is what most SFM decks will have. Manriki-Gusari solves the problem of a deck that has three different equipments and plans to grab them all against you, as you can machine-gun down their equipment pretty efficiently if you have multiple creatures in play, which should be the case a lot of the time. Pithing Needle is versatile, but if you have a specific problem that you must beat, it only makes sense to use the best tool for the job.
Storm combo is not a cakewalk. You have the tools to beat them, and they have the tools to beat you. All I will say is that the two most popular storm combo decks are both designed to beat counterspells, so if you want to beat them consistently you need to attack them from another angle. Having some discard or permanent-based hate in addition to counterspells means that they have to fight you on two fronts, which is a lot more difficult for them and makes sideboarding for them a nightmare.
If you're having trouble with Mother of Runes, your best answer is True-Name Nemesis with equipment, followed by Cursed Totem or Pithing Needle, followed by Mutavault with equipment, followed by Stifle with equipment on a random creature. Those are all answers that don't require a splash, though if you were into a splash, Dread of Night just destroys Death and Taxes in general and Mother of Runes specifically. The Mother of Runes matchup was a lot more difficult before True-Name Nemesis was a thing, but now that it is, there's nothing they can do if you put a Jitte or Sword of Fire and Ice on TNN and then start to gun down their creatures, or just race them. When all else fails, you have Force of Will, which is used exactly for cards that you can't beat otherwise.
Jund is a nightmare. They have lots of removal that is naturally very good against our deck, and counterspells are generally poor against them which means there are a lot of bad cards in our maindeck against them. The best solution I have found is to overload them on creatures and do so by boarding in about 12-14 cards. No matter how marginal some of the sideboard cards are, they're definitely better than Daze and Spell Pierce and Force of Will. Having lots of Submerges and equipment and graveyard hate and that can all come in and be useful is very good for getting rid of the counterspells for games 2 and 3. You can keep some in if you'd like, but they're rarely good. Take solace in the fact that Jund is on the downswing as most people don't even consider it to be one of the top 2 Deathrite Shaman decks.
Ah - Stifle the come-into-play trigger, of course! That is a good point. It would come down to a play-style preference. Stifle hits a lot of things just like pithing needle. I still prefer pithing needle because it costs the same but it doesn't require me to hold open mana to answer it. Because, while pithing needle only hits one piece of equipment, you don't play it until they have fetched and revealed what they fetch. Then you name that equipment. Or, if they fetch Batterskull, then you name Stoneforge Mystic. It isn't something you play T1, if that makes sense. It doesn't matter that you hit only one equipment, since that is the one in their hand.
We don't have discard though, except for Vendilion Clique, that I can think of. Do you have any ideas for good hate to bring in while remaining ? At my next local tourney, I'm actually expecting storm, people like playing it here. I don't know how to best use it, but I feel like Surgical Extraction might have some application here?
Ah! Cursed Totem, that is actually a really good idea. It didn't occur to me. That adds more incentive to play it over Chalice of the Void in the sideboard to help shore up the elves match-up. I think Jitte + TNN is awesome. If I had Kira in my 75, I'd consider playing her over Jitte. I guess it depends - Kira is faster and protects your guys quicker from their utility creatures and removal, but Jitte is MVP if you get it out. How much time do you have against D&T?
But I really like Cursed Totem, it gets rid of their utility creatures nicely
4 x Pithing Needle
3 x Grafdiggers Cage
1 x Surgical Extraction
3 x anti-combo hate
2 x Jitte
2 x Cursed Totem
Is Vendilion Clique too slow against combo? Because if it isn't, it could be a great utility. We can even vial it in in-response to a miracle trigger, and nab their miracle, and they literally can't counter it (then we have a 3/1 on the field - woohoo). Keep in mind, against S&T we have our PI as part of our toolbox of hate against them.
I've never played against Jund (not popular here - thankfully) but that sounds like a good plan.
Last edited by Windmill; 12-11-2013 at 08:21 PM.
Playing 2x Cursed Totem as Pithing Needles 5 & 6 is BEYOND EXCESSIVE! I ran one Pithing Needle in my board at GPDC and the ONLY change I've made to the deck since is swapping that lone Pithing Needle for a Cursed Totem. It won't come in vs Sneak & Show or Miracles like needle did, but those are good matchups for us anyway. I like it better than needle vs D&T, Esper Deathblade, Elves and Bant, and vs UWR Delver it's nearly a wash since they're searching up Batterskull before anything else.
You really think they'd tutor a Batterskull? I think they'd do that if they were desperate. They will almost always tutor Sword of Fire & Ice if they have any creature to attach it too, Batterskull got much worse with TNN running around in our decks. Everyone tutors that against me and it is brutal.
That is a fair point that cursed totem + needle is probably over the top and not giving us enough varied tools. Chalice of the Void varies it up. My 4 pithing needles is probably because I hate losing to stoneblade and it is rampant in my meta ;)
Owen Turtenwald got Batterskull with SFM every time he got to search when I played him in round 11 (both 9-1).
Glad to hear that ANT wouldn't be a problem. I have no experience playing against it (new to legacy and constructed in general). Would you play more counters in sideboard, or Standstills?
I'm playing 2 Swang Song's and 1 Spell Pierce in the SB against combo, they also counter Terminus even though they have a lot of mana, which is normal in control.
I haven't had experience playing D&T but I've seen it/watched it a bit. Mom is a serious threat. If they hard-cast her, then hopefully we can counter or dismember her before she loses summoning sickness. The problem though is that so many things in that deck are a threat. I think what we need to do is, like Stoneblade, figure out what are the main enablers that need to be answered. What would you say they are? I'll start it off:
- Mother of Runes (lets them chump and blank our meager removal)
T1 Solution: stop their T1 vial. That way, we force them to hard-cast their Mom and we can counter it with Daze or FOW. They get summoning sickness on their turn before they untap, and then we have dismember as a backup.
T2 Solution: We can sideboard in 1 dismember, and we can also have a late-game answer of Jitte.
- Stoneforge Mystic (Equipment we literally can't deal stop coming into play (the worst for us being Sword of Fire and Ice if they have a vial and Stoneforge Mystic on the battlefield)
T1 Solution: once again, stopping their T1 vial jam. That way, we can counter their Stoneforge Mystic. As a backup if we only have spell pierce on hand, if there isn't a Mom on the board or she has been tapped we can dismember the Stoneforge and then spell pierce the equipment into oblivion.
T2 Solution: pithing needles shore this up for us and it really doesn't matter if they get equipment at all. I think in this meta, pithing needle is an auto-4 include in the SB. The Stoneforge Mystic merely becomes a becomes a 1/2 creature. We can feel free to use our counters on Mom.
Looking at this, we have answers, even if they aren't pretty answers: but they require us to stop a T1 Aether Vial, and that is the beating heart of the problem. Would you agree?
Sure I agree! However flying creatures are more problematic than they look. They hit for 3 and are unblockeable and normally unremovable for us, they are little white TNN. They have so many powerfull plays, I don't know how to beat that deck. I have had much better results against Maverick or Jund.I have as many lords as they have removal spells. However if that was the case and they had 2-3 removal spells, Charm which is a 1-3 on their decks, and I didn't have counters or another lord to vial, I would accept I lose.
Hi, have you made any more changes to the deck? Any thiught you'd like to share after your tornament?
Would you bring Cursed totem against Turtenwald's list? I would definately bring Needle, but if you didn't know if they have Lavamancers in the SB, would you still bringing it?
Thanks
I do agree that their 3/1 fliers might as well be white TNN's to us. The only upside to this is that they cost 3 to play. Unfortunately, our PI's are terrible against D&T because they have so many ways to target them, so unless we need to copy one of their creatures for some utility purpose (such as blocking their flier instant-speed via vial), we can only really afford to copy our TNN's which also cost 3. It is a classic bad match-up against a non-blue deck. Blue might have the most answers, but it doesn't have -1 -1 answers. I think a reasonable sideboard could also be something like:
4 x Pithing Needle
3 x Grafdiggers Cage
1 x Surgical Extraction (or maybe another cage to be more elf hate?)
3 x Flusterstorm
2 x Jitte
2 x Vendilion Clique (MVP in Omnishow)
Vendilion Clique is great for Miracles (counter their Miracle by playing this removing the card from their hand), Omnishow (steal their combo piece when they show and tell and fizzle them out) and against "slower" combo decks like storm and elves, if you are on the play, you have a chance of getting to cast it before they go off. It also gives us more bodies against Jund and a flying body against D&T, I don't know. Any better ideas for that slot?
I definitely bring in the CT vs UWR Delver. My buddy and I bailed on the 40-duals tourney in PA (2.5 hours away) due to the icy weather. There are two local tourneys this weekend though that should bring around 40+ players each. I'll share any updates to the deck after these. It helps that at least one of the local elves players will be in Vegas this weekend.
Grafdigger's Cage is not our great savior vs elves. They will still have have lots of dorks clogging the ground, including symbiote shenanigans to stop any big merfolk. Your sideboard slots need to be extremely versatile in legacy and it's simply not worth devoting so many slots to our worst matchup. If there's 1-2 elves players in your local 40-man tourneys, your plan is to avoid them. If there's 1-2 good elves players in your local ~12-man tourneys you shouldn't be playing merfolk.
You're missing one pretty crucial point though: your Lords aren't recurring, while some on their removal (Punishing) is, meaning that, if they get one of their strongest engines (Grove-Punishing) going, your Lords will die very fast.
Also, the fact they have much stronger card advantage (you only have Silvergill, they have Confidant, Tourach, Bloodbraid, Library, Punishing fire itself) means they will probably draw more removal and faster than you drawing Lords.
Not mentioning they also have Decay for your Vial, granting you couldn't Vial in anything to save your TNN+Image from Golgari charm as soon as the coast is clear of Lords.
I don't know: as a Jund player, Merfolks has always been one of the most favorable matchups.
But I admit I never played vs Merfolks recently, so I guess that now TNN is helping a bit the Merfolk player.
No I know... I am just thinking about if you took Merfolk to an unknown meta. I'm trying to think about what you would bring to your sideboard. I'm incredibly new to this, it is fun to learn.
I know my meta, and I know that with tight playing and good card choices, Merfolk is competitive. No elves, except for one janky player who doesn't even splash for black and turns up only occasionally. My meta is "BLUE-BLUE-BLUE-BLUE", though it is creature-based blue and not combo. Combo would be even better, but I think that with TNN and good card choices, Merfolk can do great in that meta. I just all-around still suck at playing it. Chatting on here has helped me significantly. Right now, here is my targeted local sideboard:
4 x Pithing Needle
3 x Grafdigger's Cage
1 x Surgical Extraction
2 x Jitte
2 x Spell Pierce (the only combo's I'll probably facing is Reanimator and Storm. Should I consider something else?)
1 x Dismember (have 2 in the main deck)
2 x Vendilion Clique
To hit a variety of (mostly blue based) decks including Delver, Stoneblade, Shardless BUG, Reanimator, Storm, Warewolf Stompy (lol at that easy match-up), mono-red Goblins and Affinity in a 16-man pod. Besides about 3 decks, all usually run blue, and the stompy deck is so easy to beat.
...here is what a more reasonable sideboard would look like:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Counterspell
4 Submerge
1 Cursed Totem
3 Spell Pierce
You have to diversify as much as you can. Jamming 4 Pithing Needle and 3 Grafdigger's Cage is almost strictly worse than having lots of different cards that attack the same thing from different angles. Cage is good against Elves and the fastest graveyard decks, but having some Relic of Progenitus does basically the same thing against graveyard decks while also giving you outs to Punishing Fire and Grim Lavamancer and makes Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary and Nimble Mongoose all pretty laughably bad. In fact, I'd be more likely to run 3 Relic of Progenitus before the first Grafdigger's Cage, but it absolutely has some merit as a one-of. Blue Elemental Blast is good against Goblin Lackey and Grim Lavamancer and Sneak Attack, while also stopping Lightning Bolt and Red Elemental Blast. Submerge is insane against any deck that has Forests in it, which are, consequently, some of your worst matchups. Cursed Totem gives you edges against utility creatures (Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Grim Lavamancer) while simultaneously shutting down Elves. Counterspell and Spell Pierce do something against virtually every combo deck in the format. And this is a sideboard I came up with in literally 60 seconds; it could use a lot of tuning, depending on what your main deck looks like and what you expect to face. So to be clear, DO NOT JUST COPY THIS SIDEBOARD AND USE IT. But the important thing is, if you're already 60/40 or better against blue-based Stoneforge Mystic decks, there's not a whole lot of reason to dedicate 4-6 cards to that matchup. You're just not going to have a whole lot of cards to take out. Similarly, you don't need a whole lot of help against combo, though some is good. You need to use your sideboard to improve your bad matchups, not your good ones. And if you're losing your good matchups, then no amount of sideboard cards are going to help you. Like f7eleven said, your sideboard needs to be versatile, not targeted.
Considering that 4 submerge would do very little in my local meta where the least common colour played is green (I can think of one person that consistently runs RUG and another 1-2 that play Shardless BUG - that is it - everything else is U/W/B/R) that seems like a really bad sideboard for my meta? Or is that sideboard against an unknown meta? Because if you think that 4 pithing needles is bad, why wouldn't I choose to play 4 pithing needles against the Sword of Fire & Ice that destroys fish and that I can't even counter if Stoneforge Mystic hits the board when that combo is running rampant in my meta - and choose to play 4 submerges?
If you're talking about hitting an unknown meta, I like some of those suggestions but I would disagree on the following:
4 x Submerge
1 x Counterspell
2 x ROP
First off: the reason I ran 3 Cages and 1 SE is to act as 4 graveyard hate. SE is worst graveyard hate but come up against Dredge and you will have a rough time. If you just plan to dodge it, I understand. But that is why cage is nice because it lets us hit dredge and also double-up as elves. No it doesn't hit Tamogofys or Mongooses but based on your sideboard with 4 x submerges combined with a 3/1 TNN you wouldn't even need to worry about that, that doesn't seem like the most balanced option to me.
Also: I know some like ROP but I'm part of the camp that doesn't like having to keep 1 mana open to pop it when necessary. Can-tripping is nice but it hurts our tempo. I'd either play crypt or cage to have to hold up mana. And I think that since we have tools to deal with green (TNN + PI + Dismember) we don't need to wipe their graveyards anymore.
4 x Submerges seems a bit overkill. If you're thinking you're going to be facing a lot of Jund I could see. But 4 submerges seems like a lot now that we've got TNN + PI + Dismember. I'm assuming you're MDing Dismember and that is why it isn't in the SB. There are other creatures that are more pressing. D&T's creatures are more scary now IMHO, and 4 x Submerges does nothing for that. There is no G in there. What about Delver decks? Often times, no G. Against Goblins, it does nothing. Nothing against Bob. 4 slots is a lot for something so niche that we have answers for.
I see no pithing needles, or any way to deal with equipment. What is the plan when they fetch Sword of Fire & Ice? Or even Jitte? They absolutely wreck fish and when it hits, we've got nothing. It can be easily hardcasted even if you dismember Stoneforge. Jitte or Sword of Fire & Ice makes a very, very hard uphill battle to climb and we have zero tools. If we have tools against Tamogofys and the like, why would we waste 4 whole slots against that, but not against equipment which wrecks us?
Counterspell also feels a bit useless. Having to have UU open is painful. What on earth are we countering with it that spell pierce wouldn't do? Spell pierce lets us play something else that turn. I have never seen a competitive Merfolk decklist run counterspell and I don't think it has a place in it, really. If I'm doing that, I think I'd rather a Vendilion Clique to act as a different form of hate (discard) which also gives us a flying body.
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Cursed Totem
1 Swan Song
1 Spell Pierce (I'd be MDing 2 already)
1 Vendilion Clique (to give you a different form of attack instead of just counterspells)
2 Pithing Needles
1 Dismember
2 Submerge
I guess I just don't think that we are 60/40 against Stoneforge. I think we'd be at most 40/60 before sideboard. Their equipment wrecks us and we have so very, very little we can do MD about it. We can try and outrace but they'll outrace us because we aren't maindecking equipment, nor can we tutor, and they can pick off our Lords to keep our TNN smaller than theirs (and they get boosted by LoA too).
You certainly don't need to run my sideboard. In fact, I strongly suggested you don't. I will say that Pithing Needle is really pretty terrible against equipment. If your plan is to wait until they SFM and then Pithing Needle whatever they get, you've got one turn, and 0 turns if they then turn around and just drop it into play and equip it, which will happen very often if the game goes late. The only way that you will reliably beat equipment, no questions asked, is with a Manriki Gusari. My plan against their equipment is A) race them and B) play equipment of my own and outplay them. Their Sword of Fire and Ice doesn't just beat us. No one card just beats us. That's why we play the game.
I honestly have no idea why it is that you say I plan to dodge a graveyard deck. I have 3 anti-graveyard cards, and playing with Relic of Progenitus is very strong against most graveyard decks because it's constantly draining their graveyard. I fear Dredge more than any sane man would, and I have little trouble beating it consistently with a sideboard plan of 2 Relic of Progenitus and 1 Grafdigger's Cage, not to mention 2 Jittes and some amount of Spell Pierce.
Submerge is good against any deck that has Knight of the Reliquary, or any deck that has Deathrite Shaman, both of which are somewhat problematic for us. If you don't think either of those cards needs an answer, then I suggest that you've never actually played against them. Knight is just way too big to beat reliably most ways, and will end up out-tutoring us if the game goes long, and Deathrite Shaman nerfs our ability to use Daze and Spell Pierce effectively, and considering that we often run 7-8 Dazes and 2-4 Spell Pierce, that's no bueno. Submerge is the most perfect tempo card ever designed, which is exactly the kind of deck that we are. Tempo.
Counterspell is good against all combo decks. It's a one-of. 2 mana is a lot to hold up, I guess, unless we happened to be playing a deck with Aether Vial!!!!!1! Also, Elves and ANT with Carpet of Flowers post-board tend to laugh at Daze and Spell Pierce, whereas Counterspell still stops them just fine.
The reason why I don't have any sideboard cards to deal specifically with equipment is....I just don't care about equipment. UWR Delver decks and Esperblade decks are all positive matchups pre-board because we have Islandwalkers and more True-Name Nemesis than they do. You may think it's not a good matchup, but I assure you it's good. If you're losing to a deck with Islands in it, you need to rethink your strategy, as those are precisely the decks we're supposed to beat up on. Equipment is slow. Sword of Fire and Ice takes until turn 4 at the very earliest to do anything at all, at which point they're likely dead on board. So they attack us and shoot one of our guys for 2. We have 4 True-Name Nemesis and at least 8 Lords, all of which make Shock fairly bad. Not only that, but if we're playing our game, their equipment will never hit the field because they'll be dead turn 4-5, or it will just sit there as we Islandwalk past them. If you're blocking with True-Name Nemesis in that matchup, you're losing by a lot. But that's worst-case scenario. 95% of the time, the SFM player will fetch out Batterskull first. But let's run a thought experiment: what cards are you taking out against, say, UWR Delver, to fit in your 4 Pithing Needle?
I'm starting to test a couple Jitte's in the main. I have always hate them in this deck, but I know they are probably GG with TNN. However I'm slowing myself and they are fragile to Abrupt and Artifact destruction in general, and of course Phyrexian Revoker (Or Needle post SB) in DnT. It make look fragile, but shutting down vial when you have kept a risky hand (let's say 1 Island, 1 Waste, 1 Vial, some UU creatures), it can be devastating. (Even if you have counter you probably want to keep it for SFM, Vial, Mom...)
I'm thinking about Jittes or Dismembers maindeck as creature hate. Anyone has experience with Jitte + TNN in Merfolks? Thanks
Another card that I fear is Supreme Verdict, which I is already seeing play in TNN-SFM decks, any advice on it? The isn't much we can't do I suppose...
Sure, thanks, I would like to hear your updates/thoughts.
Another thing, may I ask you to show us how do you normally SB? Which would be the max. number of cards you bring in not to lose tribal cohesion? (If there is a max.)
You should play against Merfolks with TNN and Image. It's probably the deck I have tested against the most (along with DnT), and I'd say the it's at least like 50%-50%. However I think I have definately won more games against it than I have lost. But yes, hands full of removal are annoying to play against.
The person I play against to test that MU started bringing Charms in 2nd and 3rd game, however we both realised they were most of the time situational cards. Bringing instant -1/-1 efect against a deck full of lords and counters was usually very little relevant. At least how I play against Jund is saving counters only for Liliana (and maybe also Charm if sideboarded), because I laugh at the removal if I can find TNN. Then I don't act like a tribal deck, I may have 1-2 other merfolks in hand I dont want to lay to use Fow o because i know they would be killed, or just vial them to chump block.
Thank you for your help :)
That is true. Rock, paper, scissors, even in decks with extremely unfavourable matchups there is always a shot in MTG. One of the reasons I like Merfolk is that it is flexible, and I don't think we have absolutely-terrible matchups with anyone with the right sideboard right now.
Really? Hm. Perhaps I'm over-estimating it. But from what I've heard, people under sideboard against it and the old standard of 4-graveyard hate slots has turned into 3 and that it isn't enough. Jitte would help significantly in that match-up though. -1 -1 all of your guys!
That is true: I don't see any Knights running around but I do see Deathrites that are frustrating because of the fast mana ramp up. I think I'd rather be running 4 dismembers and 2 submerges instead of 2 dismember and 4 submerge, because dismember hits everything. It is painful but I think we can afford the loss of life. But submerge is amazing, you are right, should be played.
I still think it is too slow :/ I don't know if it'll help against Elves that much. Unfortunately their plan-b of swarm the board works fantastically too and we can't island-walk past them... and blue has no mass removal >.< I think we need hate more to deal with the engine.
No I understand. I just didn't experience the SFM player bringing out Batterskull, tbh. Only once when they didn't have a TNN to play first. Then I just shut down SFM
I think that pithing needle stays more relevant than you think. The reason I chucked it in as a 4-of was to have an incredibly good chance at drawing one. The first time they fetch for their equipment, unless it is super late-game and they have 7 mana available (2 for SFM, 3 for playing and 2 for equipping) in the same turn, then needle can come out next turn. But if you aren't running 4, then no, it isn't reliable that you'll have it on-hand at the right time. In which case, Carry Away seems like the better answer to it.
I guess my experience was with U/W Blade I had a massive advantage. He had removal but I had TNN for even when his removal worked. But Esperblade took a slow but steady route. He had 8 pieces of MD spot removal, I believe. He picked off all of my guys. I played a TNN (at the time I was running only 3). He played Liliana, and made me sac it. So I vialed in a dude in their end step. It got r-e-m-o-v-e-d. They then played Sword of Fire & Ice, and hit me to not only bring me down, but kill my dude, and draw a card. So I vialed in a new dude. It got removed with the spot removal they drew from playing Sword of Fire & Ice. Liliana was now up to 3, and they played Jace. It was disheartening, to say the least. I was top-decking and it was no fun.
From that match-up, I made some big changes to my deck. If I'd drawn a second TNN early I could have swung the game around a lot. I went +1 TNN, +1 PI and +2 Kira main-deck (had other spot removal problems all day long). I had FOWed their Shaman, only for him to play a 2nd one. I'd FOWed it because he indicated his hand was 'risky'. That might have been a misplay and I could have kept it for SFM.
Against them, I can't remember what I took out. I probably took out 2 Reejery (he was slow all day and holding up my hand) and 2 Dismember.
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