[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Megadeus]

So if I am not playing Force of Will (due to temporary budget concerns) is Riptide Pilferer even necessary? Or would you guys rather like a Hippie Spec (in BUG Pod) ?

[Svknoe]

I think that Pilferer is still good enough, but I would probably play Headhunter instead. He is a little bit easier to cast, I think. I think that the draw of BUG Pod compared to other Nic Fit decks is that you have a fine combo match up. If you can't run force of will, I fear that that will no longer be true. That would defeat the purpose of playing blue pod altogether.

EDIT: Concerning the Hippo, the random discard is very nice, but tapping out on turn 3 to pressure their hand on turn 4 is not acceptable. Especially without force. You can of cource ramp it out with explorer or deathrite, in which case it might be fast enough. I do not liking having to ramp into it, though.

[pfiremc13]

Can I see an example of a sideboard with headhunter/riptide pilferer?

[Megadeus]

Taken from Svknoe's list on the last page:

SIDEBOARD
2 Envelop
1 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
3 Riptide Pilferer
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Notion Thief
4 Force of Will

[haganbmj]

So if I am not playing Force of Will (due to temporary budget concerns) is Riptide Pilferer even necessary? Or would you guys rather like a Hippie Spec (in BUG Pod) ?

Deus can borrow the Forces I have never cast.

They certainly seem relevant in the sideboard given Svknoe's list.

[Megadeus]

Deus can borrow the Forces I have never cast.

They certainly seem relevant in the sideboard given Svknoe's list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHFy3YWpRx8

[GtF]

I am glad to hear that I have figured out the main concerns in the match ups. I am not certain that additional spot removal is the solution for the fair deck match ups. I very broad terms there are the tempo delver decks and the value mid range decks. Abrupt Decay is good against the tempo decks, but the tempo match up seems very good already. Compared to other Nic Fit versions BUG Pod gets to play Deathrite and Strix, which are almost absurdly good against the delver decks. If you simply play around their soft counters, primarily daze, then it almost seems difficult lose. I admit that I have not played very much Delver with BUG Pod, but I have played it a number of times with other Nic Fit decks and this one seems even better. Our cards are much better than theirs, and with Deathrite and Strix, our cards are better from the beginning. Therefore additional is not needed against them, even though it would further skew the match up towards us, I suppose. I do not as of yet know too much about TNNs impact on these match ups. As long as it is not equiped I think that the deck is fast and big enough to run right over its head.

Versus the mid range decks the problem is not that we cannot answer their threats, but that their cards are better than ours. That is not strictly true, as our strategy is more powerful overall. We have a few absurdly powerful cards that put their decks to shame, such as Grave Titan and Grave Titan. But if they counter or discard our key cards, we are faced with the problem that Shardless (not to mention Jace) agent is better than Redcap. We can kill their stuff and stabilize, but in the end it is us that runs out of cards. Therefore I think that additional spot removal may be detrimental to our match up versus the blue mid range decks. I believe that it may be possible that we have a good match up against regardless. I think that the most important thing in these match ups is to use cabal therapy to protect your bombs and resolve them. This deck is so value ridden that Jace may be acceptable. In testing I have, from an empty board, grinded out an opposing board of both Jace and Elspeth. Resolve a Pod and almost any creatures and Jace is not that bad, contrary to my experiences with other Nic Fit decks. Although you don't want Jace to happen, by all means.

I am interested in seeing how the 4 colour version turns out. The white splash options are powerful. However, I think that the mana will not be stable enough to warrant the splash. Getting mana screwed by an unstable mana base and wasteland seems a bit too much. If it works, I would like to try it, though. Do you think that you would have to cut back on the number of basics in order to support a stable 4 colour mana base?

Regarding Notion Thief you may be right. I think that the local meta adapts a little bit slower than the SCG tournaments, as people are still building Shardless BUG decks. I'll see if the meta changes, but keeping trying it for a while more.

EDIT: I have mainly played against combo, both in testing and in the tournament. My thoughts on the fair match ups may very well just be wrong.

Yeah, you make a good point about the midrange matchups. Maybe another big threat, like an Aetherling, another Recurring Nightmare, or a Jace of our own would be the way to go.
I did cut down on the number of basics to 5, so far this hasn't been a problem but my testing has been limited. I'll keep you posted.

[tons of fun]

ok so i been brewing 2 kinds of fit ninja fit and artifact nic fit

[Zorker]

Could someone explain how i recognize a hand to keep from one to mulligan?.

with veteran explorer in play, i should only ramp if i have a follow up?

[Svknoe]

What is a keep and what is a mulligan depends a lot on your deck and the match up. As a general guideline, your hand needs to be able to interact with your opponent and stop their plan. If you have to hope to draw something during the first 2-3 turns for the hand to be good, it is generally a mulligan. I think that against combo, every hand without at the very list one piece of fast interaction with their combo is a mulligan. But that depends heavily on your plan on how to deal with them. What are you playing? Do you have any specific match ups in mind?

Whether or not to ramp with Veteran Explorer also depends on the context. If the basics are useful to your opponent that favours not ramping without a follow up. If you are planning to ramp by flashing back Cabal Therapy, you might want the flash backed therapy even if you can't use the lands this turn. This will generally happen if they will cast a threat next turn that you will have trouble dealing with. If you are playing versus a non-Miracles white deck, such as UWR delver, you want to kill explorer immediately, without ever passing priority after casting him. This is to dodge swords to plowshares.

[Zorker]

@svknoe: thanks a lot.

the deck i'm playing is a copy paste of the punishing fit in the Op/primer, the match ups i usually worry about are the ones which you can't interact a lot(Belcher/dredge/ant) also 12post.

Also If you are playing versus a non-Miracles white deck, such as UWR delver, you want to kill explorer immediately, without ever passing priority after casting him. This is to dodge swords to plowshares.

.

Could you please clarify this one?:

1) cast explorer(do i have to give him priority so he could counter it?)
2) If explorer etb i have to sac him asap so the opponent can't plow him(correct?, this works because i didn't pass priority).



Also: After buying the staples for evry version of this deck : Veteran Explorer, Cabal therapy, Green sun zenith, Eternal witness, Thrun, the Last Troll, Thragtusk , Primeval Titan/Black titan , Should i start buying fetches or duals?

[Svknoe]

I am sorry I was was not clear enough about swords to plowshares. I meant the second one, where you let explorer resolve and don't pass priority. You are correct.

As for duals versus fetches, I think that the fetches are more important in a deck with top. Top is only really good if you have sufficient shuffle effects. Though painful, the duals can be approximated by shocks. One Bayou to fetch for would also help a lot.

As for the match ups, they don't seem good at all. I believe that 12 post is nigh unbeatable, and that you should not worry about that match up. I have tested some with punishing fit versus ANT. Preboard is horrible. The plan to win is to slow them down with the discard spells and keep them down with Liliana. You also need Ooze to keep their graveyard as clean as possible, since Past in Flames eventually beats your discard. I would mulligan any hand that does not support this plan. The post board plan for mulliganing is mostly the same, but you have better cards. You may also win if you draw Slaughter Games and make it to casting it. Many ANT decks play Tendrils as their only win con, in case you just win. If they are not on such a version, naming Infernal Tutor seems good. I don't have any experience with the two other match ups with Punishing Fit. Versus dredge ooze seems to be your best card. Deed can slow them down. Keeping hands containing Explorer, Ooze, GSZ and Deed seems good. To beat Belcher I think that you almost have to hope that they go for Empty the Warrens. If they do that and you Deed, you should win. If they are on the play I would keep hands with explorer and deed, so that you are fast enough. I you are on the play I would keep hands containing discard and deed. I would name Belcher.

[Zorker]

very helpful explanations, thanks.

[pfiremc13]

Taken from Svknoe's list on the last page:

SIDEBOARD
2 Envelop
1 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
3 Riptide Pilferer
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Notion Thief
4 Force of Will

*facepalm*

Wouldn't extraction effects be good here? They can win games on the spot vs. combo.

[Megadeus]

*facepalm*

Wouldn't extraction effects be good here? They can win games on the spot vs. combo.

This is true. I totally forgot about extraction effects. However, I think that is a general plan for non blue versions that dont have access to force. Force + Blue card is much more likely than having Surgical + TS/Therapy

What is a keep and what is a mulligan depends a lot on your deck and the match up. As a general guideline, your hand needs to be able to interact with your opponent and stop their plan. If you have to hope to draw something during the first 2-3 turns for the hand to be good, it is generally a mulligan. I think that against combo, every hand without at the very list one piece of fast interaction with their combo is a mulligan. But that depends heavily on your plan on how to deal with them. What are you playing? Do you have any specific match ups in mind?

Whether or not to ramp with Veteran Explorer also depends on the context. If the basics are useful to your opponent that favours not ramping without a follow up. If you are planning to ramp by flashing back Cabal Therapy, you might want the flash backed therapy even if you can't use the lands this turn. This will generally happen if they will cast a threat next turn that you will have trouble dealing with. If you are playing versus a non-Miracles white deck, such as UWR delver, you want to kill explorer immediately, without ever passing priority after casting him. This is to dodge swords to plowshares.

Agreed. The first time I played Nic Fit, when miracles was a bigger deck, I would immediately flashback my cabal therapy to trigger explorer even without a follow up. Then he would slam his T2 Jace and I would wonder why I wasnt winning. Vs miracles you should show patience. I think Meta knowledge is extremely helpful for a Nic Fit player, as it not only allows you to hit better with Therapy, but with this deck, timing your spells and sequencing your plays are very important in getting the most out of them.

[nedleeds]

Vs. miracles you should just lose the explorers and play carpets / choke / planeswalkers.

[Megadeus]

Vs. miracles you should just lose the explorers and play carpets / choke / planeswalkers.

True. In the straight GB build I played more than a year ago that was my plan. Does anyone still run Garruk primal Hunter? That man is a BEATING

[Svknoe]

Agreed on force versus surgical. I have found surgical to be a bit inconsistent, though that is fine if the match up is rough. I don't think that surgical is required in the Pod deck, as the deck already has a plan to lock them out. When you have the counters to slow them down, I like Glen Elendra as a way to shut them down.

I think that Garruk, Primal hunter can be good in the Punishing Fire version. I havn't taken it to a tournament yet, though.

[pfiremc13]

This is true. I totally forgot about extraction effects. However, I think that is a general plan for non blue versions that dont have access to force. Force + Blue card is much more likely than having Surgical + TS/Therapy

Why not memoricide/cranial? All you need is 1 ramp source to play them on t3, which is as soon as pilferer becomes relevant. In addition, they can name something that your opponent doesn't draw (very relevant with tendrils vs ant). They serve a very different role to force. Extraction effects exile wincons but cost a lot of mana, while force is free but can only counter one thing, and can't counter wincons. That's why I was thinking of replacing pilferers with memoricide/extraction.

His pod list specifically runs 8 ramp sources, so I don't think that would be too much of a problem. In addition, the list has so much countermagic that stalling to t4 doesn't seem like a problem either.

[Megadeus]

I mean Slaughter Games works for the Jund colored versions right? I'm not insinuating that you are wrong. You should definitely test it out. I think the point of Svknoe is that if you are playing Pod, and you want to be in blue, the best reason to be in blue is giving yourself Force of Will (and brainstorm). If you want to be in pod and you dont want Force, then other colors are generally better options.