[Primer] Elves!

[yaWgnorW]

Maybe I am in a minority, but with Decay, Shaman and Discard, I have found Miracles to be painful but not as bad as ANT or other hyper aggressive Combo decks.

I have found ANT not to be as painful with fair amounts of discard and Ruric. Its the turn 1 hyper aggressive decks, IE. Oops All Spells, etc. that are painful for me. The inclusion of Pithing Needle has further helped that MU, however, you just have to hope they don't have a hand with 2 forms of win.

With Miracles, I just don't know. I've dropped my Decay count to 2, but also have 2 Needles, so with Discard I think it still may be ok post board.

I'm still toying with my board and main deck...meaning 60 or 61. Somethings are practical other things a stretch. I'm really happy with 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Meekstone being a part of my board, however I feel any less than 6 discard spells is going to greatly affect combo MU's. This has put my Abrupt Decay count to 2, versus my preferred 3. Thing is, most of the time I bring in Decays I find myself bringing in either Needle or Meekstone anyway, so it takes some pressure off of the Decays as we've been discussing. So the 2 count of Decay may be just fine.

That puts my current board at 6 Discard (Thoughtseize/Cabal), 2 Needle, 2 Meekstone, 2 Decay, 1 NO (13)

Right now my board and main is without Scavenging Ooze, and I'm looking at some more oddball test things, such as putting a big drop like Prog or Worldspine Wurm in the main, and boarding Ruric. Ooze has been amazing main board however, that I can confirm, but It can be a total flop depending on your meta.

[Echelon]

Right now my board and main is without Scavenging Ooze, and I'm looking at some more oddball test things, such as putting a big drop like Prog or Worldspine Wurm in the main, and boarding Ruric. Ooze has been amazing main board however, that I can confirm, but It can be a total flop depending on your meta.

I once used Ooze in a match where my opponent had a Chalice of the Void for 1 on the board. I used his Chalice to counter all my 1-drops so that I could feed my Ooze. It grew pretty big pretty fast and won the game all on it's own

Edit: Went 3-1-1 into top 8 yesterday. The draw was an ID against a goblins player which I crushed during a casual game following the ID. Got kicked out of the top 8 in the first round by Mitchell Manders piloting RUG Delver. I faced 2 UWR SFM/TNN decks yesterday (won the first match, lost the second), a UWB SFM build, Merfolk, Goblins & RUG Delver yesterday so didn't need the Bane at all. Also didn't need Ruric Thar, unfortunately. Most Storm-ish decks were kicked to the lower tables rather quickly. Didn't see any form of Show and Tell the entire day.

I want to add some cards against RUG Delver-ish MU's rather then discard and Scavenging Ooze. Would Meekstone suffice to stop the beats? Or does anyone have any other suggestions?

[Havoc]

Went 4-0 at my local Legacy event without dropping a single game. Played against Sneak and Show, Esper Blade, Lands, and RUG Delver with Stifle. My current list:
1 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Viridian Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage

R1: Sneak and Show
Game 1: he sees not counter magic just can-trips and hoof gets there on turn 4
Game 2: Way more interactive with him countering all my 1 drops which to me was a mistake. Turn 3 he runs low on counter and im able to steal 2 ponder out of his hand with a blind cabal therapy. He had a show and tell in hand and I followed up with a pithing needle on sneak attack. He rips the sneak attack plays it but never sees a creature before I Glimpse chain and swing for lethal a turn later.

R2: Esper Blade
Game 1: he keeps a really good hand but didn’t have a counter for the natural order on turn 4. He blocks what he can but doesn’t draw the verdict so I kill him next turn.
Game 2: he gets meddling mages on turn 2 and 3 naming glimpse and NO in that order which kills my 1 glimpse 2 NO hand. I return the favor by dropping both my pithing needles on jitte and stoneforge which hurts his only way to kill me. We play draw go until I top deck a craterhoof after I’ve played out 9 elves. I land the craterhoof and kill him. He tells me after that he had a verdict in hand but he feared me going off with glimpse and no in hand without a counter

R3: Lands
Game 1: he mulls down to 5 and has to keep a hand with spells but no colored lands. He’s able to port my cradle until I draw a second and hard-cast a craterhoof.
Game 2: he keeps a loose hand with only a grove for mana and 3 gambles. I proceed to hit the 3 lands he gambles for on random discard. Hes forced to start to use the grove for colored mana. After gaining around 15 life and being held off by a ensnaring bridge and a chasm he gets low enough for me to green-sun for Ruric. Hes caught with having to stay behind a the bridge until I top deck the shaman blow it up and swing with a massive team.

R4: RUG with Stifle
Game 1: he stifles and counters all my little dudes so when I fetch up some dryad arbors and a craterhoof he can’t stop the trees from getting there.
Game 2: he lands and early delver but I rip a decay to deal with it. He then lands a gofy but again I rip the decay. I then overload the board with elves while he stifles as many come into play affects as he can. A craterhoof later and its over

Walked away with 3 cunning wishes and sleeves. Afterwards everyone asked what was the best way to stop me. I told them to stop countering and stifling all my 1 drops and it would be quicker lol.

[yaWgnorW]

Went 4-0 at my local Legacy event without dropping a single game. Played against Sneak and Show, Esper Blade, Lands, and RUG Delver with Stifle. My current list:
1 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Viridian Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage

R1: Sneak and Show
Game 1: he sees not counter magic just can-trips and hoof gets there on turn 4
Game 2: Way more interactive with him countering all my 1 drops which to me was a mistake. Turn 3 he runs low on counter and im able to steal 2 ponder out of his hand with a blind cabal therapy. He had a show and tell in hand and I followed up with a pithing needle on sneak attack. He rips the sneak attack plays it but never sees a creature before I Glimpse chain and swing for lethal a turn later.

R2: Esper Blade
Game 1: he keeps a really good hand but didn’t have a counter for the natural order on turn 4. He blocks what he can but doesn’t draw the verdict so I kill him next turn.
Game 2: he gets meddling mages on turn 2 and 3 naming glimpse and NO in that order which kills my 1 glimpse 2 NO hand. I return the favor by dropping both my pithing needles on jitte and stoneforge which hurts his only way to kill me. We play draw go until I top deck a craterhoof after I’ve played out 9 elves. I land the craterhoof and kill him. He tells me after that he had a verdict in hand but he feared me going off with glimpse and no in hand without a counter

R3: Lands
Game 1: he mulls down to 5 and has to keep a hand with spells but no colored lands. He’s able to port my cradle until I draw a second and hard-cast a craterhoof.
Game 2: he keeps a loose hand with only a grove for mana and 3 gambles. I proceed to hit the 3 lands he gambles for on random discard. Hes forced to start to use the grove for colored mana. After gaining around 15 life and being held off by a ensnaring bridge and a chasm he gets low enough for me to green-sun for Ruric. Hes caught with having to stay behind a the bridge until I top deck the shaman blow it up and swing with a massive team.

R4: RUG with Stifle
Game 1: he stifles and counters all my little dudes so when I fetch up some dryad arbors and a craterhoof he can’t stop the trees from getting there.
Game 2: he lands and early delver but I rip a decay to deal with it. He then lands a gofy but again I rip the decay. I then overload the board with elves while he stifles as many come into play affects as he can. A craterhoof later and its over

Walked away with 3 cunning wishes and sleeves. Afterwards everyone asked what was the best way to stop me. I told them to stop countering and stifling all my 1 drops and it would be quicker lol.

Nice job, funny they focused so much on your 1 drops. I noticed you are runnnig 17 lands (19 with Dryad) over the norm 20, and it seems to be in favor for the 4th NO. How does the 19 land treat you? and how does the 4th NO treat you?

[Havoc]

i like the 19 lands. use to run 20 with a taiga and 61 maindeck but i was running into mana flooded hands or top decking to many. now it feels a little better. i was trying the 4th NO main this weekend for the first time and i like it a lot. if my meta was more control id take it back out but all ive played against lately is dethblade for control so its great. for now its main it adds a good level of consistency to see one. i like my opponents face when i turn 4 one they counter and i just turn 5 one to.

[Lemnear]

Running Ruric Thar in your Maindeck to catch storm game 1, but only 3 NO at the same time, made never much sense to me...

[LeoCop 90]

With the meta heavily shifting towards blade decks, i feel like progenitus main deck could be good, better than ruric. If only we had a way to discard him when we unfortunately draw into him...

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

Went 4-0 at my local Legacy event without dropping a single game. Played against Sneak and Show, Esper Blade, Lands, and RUG Delver with Stifle. My current list:
1 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Viridian Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Bayou
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage

R1: Sneak and Show
Game 1: he sees not counter magic just can-trips and hoof gets there on turn 4
Game 2: Way more interactive with him countering all my 1 drops which to me was a mistake. Turn 3 he runs low on counter and im able to steal 2 ponder out of his hand with a blind cabal therapy. He had a show and tell in hand and I followed up with a pithing needle on sneak attack. He rips the sneak attack plays it but never sees a creature before I Glimpse chain and swing for lethal a turn later.

R2: Esper Blade
Game 1: he keeps a really good hand but didn’t have a counter for the natural order on turn 4. He blocks what he can but doesn’t draw the verdict so I kill him next turn.
Game 2: he gets meddling mages on turn 2 and 3 naming glimpse and NO in that order which kills my 1 glimpse 2 NO hand. I return the favor by dropping both my pithing needles on jitte and stoneforge which hurts his only way to kill me. We play draw go until I top deck a craterhoof after I’ve played out 9 elves. I land the craterhoof and kill him. He tells me after that he had a verdict in hand but he feared me going off with glimpse and no in hand without a counter

R3: Lands
Game 1: he mulls down to 5 and has to keep a hand with spells but no colored lands. He’s able to port my cradle until I draw a second and hard-cast a craterhoof.
Game 2: he keeps a loose hand with only a grove for mana and 3 gambles. I proceed to hit the 3 lands he gambles for on random discard. Hes forced to start to use the grove for colored mana. After gaining around 15 life and being held off by a ensnaring bridge and a chasm he gets low enough for me to green-sun for Ruric. Hes caught with having to stay behind a the bridge until I top deck the shaman blow it up and swing with a massive team.

R4: RUG with Stifle
Game 1: he stifles and counters all my little dudes so when I fetch up some dryad arbors and a craterhoof he can’t stop the trees from getting there.
Game 2: he lands and early delver but I rip a decay to deal with it. He then lands a gofy but again I rip the decay. I then overload the board with elves while he stifles as many come into play affects as he can. A craterhoof later and its over

Walked away with 3 cunning wishes and sleeves. Afterwards everyone asked what was the best way to stop me. I told them to stop countering and stifling all my 1 drops and it would be quicker lol.

Way to go. I'm wondering how you side-boarded each match. Also, do you think Grafdigger's Cage is helpful to you? I'm asking because it really undermines your Green Sun's Zeniths and Natural Orders.

[Julian23]

Played in the "Big Legacy Trial" at the German Magic end-of-year event in Hanau yesterday. I ran a list with 3 Swan Songs in the sideboard and I absolutely love them. I went 4-0-2 in the Swiss, then lost in the Semis. Today's the main event and I got 1 Bye

R1: Omniclash 2-0
R2: Esperblade 2-0
R3: TES 2-1
R4: Miracles ID (he offered it)
R5: Esperblade 2-1
R6: Imperial Painter ID (I "let" him in after asking what he plays)

1/4 Finals: Death & Taxes 2-0
1/2 Finals: TES 0-2 (same as in Swiss, he now boarded Xantid Swarms, lol)

[Lemnear]

Played in the "Big Legacy Trial" at the German Magic end-of-year event in Hanau yesterday. I ran a list with 3 Swan Songs in the sideboard and I absolutely love them. I went 4-0-2 in the Swiss, then lost in the Semis. Today's the main event and I got 1 Bye

R1: Omniclash 2-0
R2: Esperblade 2-0
R3: TES 2-1
R4: Miracles ID (he offered it)
R5: Esperblade 2-1
R6: Imperial Painter ID (I "let" him in after asking what he plays)

1/4 Finals: Death & Taxes 2-0
1/2 Finals: TES 0-2 (same as in Swiss, he now boarded Xantid Swarms, lol)

WTF?! Xantid Swarm? TES players should simply learn which hands to keep and which to mull against other combo decks ;D

[Dice_Box]

What does ID mean on the report?

[Lemnear]

What does ID mean on the report?

Intentional Draw

[TiMeWaLk]

Played in the "Big Legacy Trial" at the German Magic end-of-year event in Hanau yesterday. I ran a list with 3 Swan Songs in the sideboard and I absolutely love them. I went 4-0-2 in the Swiss, then lost in the Semis. Today's the main event and I got 1 Bye

R1: Omniclash 2-0
R2: Esperblade 2-0
R3: TES 2-1
R4: Miracles ID (he offered it)
R5: Esperblade 2-1
R6: Imperial Painter ID (I "let" him in after asking what he plays)

1/4 Finals: Death & Taxes 2-0
1/2 Finals: TES 0-2 (same as in Swiss, he now boarded Xantid Swarms, lol)

Do you think Swan Song is better than Envelop? It targets Sneak Attack but you cannot attack him with your 1/1s

[Eternal]

I tested the card. And give a chump blocker to the opponent is bad for Elves. I prefer envelop.

It targets Sneak Attack but you cannot attack him with your 1/1s

That's the problem.

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

Played in the "Big Legacy Trial" at the German Magic end-of-year event in Hanau yesterday. I ran a list with 3 Swan Songs in the sideboard and I absolutely love them.

I've used them when I also experimented with other blue cards (like call). I found them useful, but in the end, not as helpful or versatile as discard. So I wonder if it's really worth the splash. When did you board them in? What did you drop from your board to try them?

[Shagstaman]

Way to go. I'm wondering how you side-boarded each match. Also, do you think Grafdigger's Cage is helpful to you? I'm asking because it really undermines your Green Sun's Zeniths and Natural Orders.

I had a reanimator player literally curse at me for bringing in cage against him...he was all like "dont you know that turns off your spells too!?" and the thing is...if you auto-lose to him reanimating an elesh norn is it worse to have 7 dead spells?? I didn't think so when I was the one carrying the match slip up to the front. ;)

cage is good, and the fastest/best answer for reanimator IMO (other things can be played around and ooze/drs is often a turn too slow..)-- if reanimator became a thing again, cage is definitely a good choice.

[Shagstaman]

cabal therapy can't be xantid swarmed and can potentially "counter" multiple cards ;)

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

I had a reanimator player literally curse at me for bringing in cage against him...he was all like "dont you know that turns off your spells too!?" and the thing is...if you auto-lose to him reanimating an elesh norn is it worse to have 7 dead spells?? I didn't think so when I was the one carrying the match slip up to the front. ;)

cage is good, and the fastest/best answer for reanimator IMO (other things can be played around and ooze/drs is often a turn too slow..)-- if reanimator became a thing again, cage is definitely a good choice.

I don't disagree that Grafdigger's Cage is very effective against graveyard decks, like reanimator. That said, I think it is far too effective against us, especially when you've chosen to play only one in your sideboard. Put at least three in your sideboard, and you're going to have a more consistent plan to deal with a meta that is filled with graveyard decks. With just one, you're counting on a lot of luck and NOT using the strengths of the rest of the deck. If you test it, and I suggest that you do, one Scavenging Ooze and your Deathrite Shamans will serve you better, especially when you consider that you also have to optimize your sideboard.

In the end, to each his/her own. But for my taste, you would never see just one Grafdigger's Cage in my sideboard and you'd only find three in there in a meta where I'm expecting at least 25% of the decks to be graveyard intensive--and even then, I'd probably sooner take Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus.

[Lemnear]

Julian's still flawless in round 4 of the End-of-Year-Event of PlanetMTG in Hanau/Germany! 119 players!

Sad I couldn't make it :(

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

Julian's still flawless in round 4 of the End-of-Year-Event of PlanetMTG in Hanau/Germany! 119 players!

Sad I couldn't make it :(

Thanks for the update. Are they streaming these games? I saw, thanks to your post, that he's at the top of the leader board. Go Julian!