[Deck]BUx Reanimator

[Stryfo]

@tinker I play 4x hapless researcher in my list and I have had plenty of wins from just attacking for a few points with those guys every turn, I have no problem believing bloodghast beats could win games.

[Rood]

Picked up the deck. Lost maybe one round out of 15 so far with it. Is this deck unstoppable? It's stupidly strong in testing.
I'm trying to get the cards to build my version. We'll see how it goes.

[helghast101]

Picked up the deck. Lost maybe one round out of 15 so far with it. Is this deck unstoppable? It's stupidly strong in testing.
I'm trying to get the cards to build my version. We'll see how it goes.

If you can play around the hate, yes it is really powerful. Unstoppable, not at all. Like Dredge you'll have games you lose to one card. Plus with the current metagame with Karakas, Oozes, Shamans etc. Being main decked we don't have the "free" game one.

[kingtk3]

Picked up the deck. Lost maybe one round out of 15 so far with it. Is this deck unstoppable? It's stupidly strong in testing.
I'm trying to get the cards to build my version. We'll see how it goes.

Against which decks did you test? Moreover, did you test with or without sideing?

You are right, this deck is a monster in general and even more in game one. It becomes more difficult to play in G2/3 because of all the hate that the opponent may bring, however sometimes this deck is just too fast for caring about it.

The worst matchups are, in my opinion, against white based decks because they have cheap removals that exile or are repeatable (sword to plowshares, karakas), the best grave hate (rest in piece) and strong effects to put via show and tell (oblivion ring, mangara).

These are not unbeatable matchup because this deck can beat anything, but in my opinion are the worst you can find.

Glad to see you here btw ;)

[kingsey]

What's the most current UB list for an open meta ?

[YamiJoey]

I've been playing around with some stuff and have come to a dead end on this. I'm currently running lists to come to a conclusion for GP Paris in February, and would like to have the month to test a final list. I want to play 4 Entomb, 4 Reanimate, 4 Show and Tell, 4 Griselbrand, and 2-4 of a card that is as good as landing a Griselbrand or Emrakul or something, but that works well with both Reanimate and Show and Tell. The list I've currently got looks something like this:

Creatures: 10
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Griselbrand
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Elesh Norn

Spells: 29
4 Brainstorm
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Reanimate
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will

Mana: 21
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Lotus Petal
2 City of Traitors
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire

I basically want to pull the Norn/Tyrant for 2 Creatures that will basically win me the game on the spot. Iona doesn't work as I am expecting to sometimes T1 people and do not want declare White expecting StP and then walk into a Tendrils the following turn or whatever. Would a second Tyrant over the Norn be good? It's one of the best Spells I've ever seen in play once you stabilise, and is incredibly easy to get to work. It can be removed etc. for basically no value if I attempt to T1 S/T it and they throw down Land StP or whatever as above, but there just isn't anything quite as good as a Griselbrand when it comes down to it. Anyone have any thoughts, or should I just go ahead and play a couple of 1-ofs and be happy that I made a 7-drop no matter what it is?

[Worldslayer]

Yami -

I'd probably Terastadon over Tidespout. Doesn't pitch to force, but Turn 1 is capable of making 12-15 power (if you're "all in" and turn your land and/or extra petals into Elephants) while maintaining similar functionality an requiring no real additional cards. Obviously riskier, but higher payoff, which is how I tend to pilot the deck in any case. Also, the quote in your sig needs a beginning bracket ;)


Roodmistah -

The deck's worst matchup is itself and that becomes apparent the more you play it. I had played a few games with friends the night before I took 11th in Baltimore, and had only a few weeks of playing by 2nd in Philly. Worecester rolled around, though, and by then the entire meta was Deathrite, Ooze, Karakas - and still managed to plow through it for 28th, but the deck was "making me work for it". Generally, the games I lose with Reanimator tend to be when Reanimator just gets thoughtseized or hymned or forced and you draw nothing else or keep getting Combo Part A five times when you need Combo Part B, then you do nothing and die. In general the deck is ridiculously strong, though.


@Reanimator Red players -

Where's Blood Moon? When I considered splashing Red months ago, it was solely for that card but I didn't want to add more nonbasics to the mana base in a meta of Wasteland. Since you guys obviously have accepted that, why not leverage what's probably the best tech we can steal from Sneak and Show? My lists already were on 3 "red" fetches (2 Bloodstained Mire / 1 Scalding Tarn), and coupled with the 2-4 basic blue or black sources it seems like proper play can leave your mana safe and sound while turning off Green sources for Deathrite (or their ability to play magic at all), Karakas, Maze of Ith, incoming Bojuka Bogs, etc....


@Todd Anderson Pyreanimator players -

Did you try Snapcaster in more traditional Reanimator before the Pyro list? It functions similarly in terms of adding meat to the field, but adds yet another layer of redundancy to the deck, making disruption heavy hands even more sad, and adds another dimension to entomb in that 2 Entombs + Snapcaster actually do make a big guy now. Just throwing that out there, as Snaps as a 2-3 of was something I was actually pretty happy with for awhile, and it keeps you in UB.


Kingsey, my Philly list was pretty stock for Reanimator, though the sideboard was 80% garbage. the UB lists running 2/3 SnT main with Iona/Elesh/Permanent Remover Guy/Griselbrands are pretty flexible for open metas, though if you suspect a heavier Karakas presence Grave Titan (or Inkwell Leviathan) should be in your 75 somewhere. As much as the red splashes aren't a fan of SnT, I'd never leave home without 4 in my 75 - the card is simply too absurd even for a prepared meta, and means the maindeck hate cards are minor modal changes instead of game-delaying hurdles. In a perfect world you can sculpt the double entomb exhume draw, or double fatty careful study exhume draw to beat a Deathrite, but in practice normally just casting the 2U sorcery is both far more achievable and active in a relevant timeframe.


@Whole Thread -

We put up good numbers this year, boys and ghouls, so excellent work. To anyone who's been playing it: congratulations, you're part of something awesome. To anyone moving over here more recently: welcome, this deck is absurd, and congratulations - you're part of something awesome.

I'd link the first few seconds from Altered Beast, here, but have no idea how to do that.

[Rood]

Stoneforge decks seems pretty tough for us. I think Ashen Rider and Tidesprout are good utility creatures for the matchup as is Elesh Norn.
Is the general consensus this is one of the rather extremely tough matchups for us? Between Swords/Jace/etc we cant just lock them out with Iona.

[PirateKing]

Iona has gotten weaker and weaker as decks have diversified in colors and answers to Iona. She still has her place, but it's hardly ever as a turn one lock like back in the day.

[Worldslayer]

Generally I find blade decks more annoying than extremely tough. Tier one "oh god no" matchups are rip miracles and maverick flavors. Blade and jund have game, especially now that both are drs based, but griselbrand is so naturally good against them when combined with free countermagic that he will usually cost a game out pretty easily. Iona is second string, calling whatever color thought seize tells us to.

[PirateKing]

I won a Scrubland at a 16 man tournament with Reanimator. Didn't take any notes and am not going to write a real report, just share some thoughts on the experience. The tournament was held among drafters and EDH players, and the environment felt like low hanging fruit, hence my interest. Turned out others had the same feeling and so there were other real decks among the rest.

Game 1; I throw away an awful 7 and look at a turn 2 S&T with protection in my 6 and decide to roll with it. Play land go, he opens with Duress, I let it happen figuring he will take the Show and put me back on Reanimate, he takes Force and 10 spells later, I'm dead.
Game 2; Despite siding to my best, more of the same, he has a Exterpate for my T1 Reanimate, and a Silence combo to follow. So far my easy tournament is looking grim.

Game 1; He plays basic Islands and Forests into Sakura-Tribe Elder, no idea what his plan is, Griselbrand ends it quick.
Game 2; Same thing.

Game 1; Some budget D&T build, flashed in Restoration Angel to deny me Lifelink a few times, but can't stop me in the long run.
Game 2; Same thing.

Game 1; Turn 1 Thoughtseize shows Enchantress, I show her Entomb and win.
Game 2; She tutors for RiP, plays it with mana to spare, while I craft a hand. Turns out the Tidespout in hand pairs well with the S&T on the top of my Library. Lets me Entomb Reanimate a Griselbrand which lets me Force her Humility and Elephant Grass. Win with Elesh Norn in play to remove some of her triggers. This was the only real time Tidespout offered value, though I find this to be a rare scenario and one that should be depended on. Once he was in play I had Petal Entomb Reanimate in hand, Petal bouncing RiP, and then locking the game up from there. Still wanting to try Grave Titan in that slot, with Chain of Vapor and maybe Echoing Truth in the side to offer the same effect.

anyway, I'm 3-1, get 4th seed in top 4.

Game 1; Everybody wants to do some SCG style finals and so everybody announces their decks. I'm up against Dream Halls. In all my time playing, I haven't faced a S&T mirror, just Tempo, Control & Combo. Time to learn. Basically we draw, Ponder, go for about 6 turns before either of us have the courage to try something. I try first and fail, and we durdle some more. Crafting back to a hand of Force, Force, Careful Study, Inkwell, he goes for it. S&T gets my Force, he responds with Pact of Negation on my Force. I say fine and Force his S&T again. Having used Lotus Petal mana to get this far, he can't pay the trigger and dies. This was stupid close, all 4 cards were what they needed to be to get there.
Game 2; He has better counter-magic and sticks a Dream Halls and proceeds to Cruel Ultimatum a handful of times.
Game 3; I have not much to side in but some Spell Peirce to hunker down for another counter war. Moot point as he gets mana flooded and we durdle some more. Bin a both Iona and Griselbrand and keep playing Reanimates until Iona comes down on Blue, and the game is over.

Final opponent is my round 1 storm player, and I'm in no mood to play him. Turns out neither is he, so we split.

Thoughts on Tidespout are above. If the deck was full of 0 cost cards like Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy, he would do more, but too often we spend all the cards in our hand just to get the guy in play and protect him. As I have said before, without any way to protect him or a lasting impact after the card has left, he isn't really good enough to keep in the 75. I'd rather S&T Griselbrand to search for the Chain of Vapor to bounce the problem card, so that is what I will do.

Iona came through for the first time in a while, a possible opponent was High Tide, so I was glad she was in the pile. Was thinking of dropping her as well since my meta is all 3 color that does just fine under the Shield of Emeria.

In the end, I am really happy with my 3-3 Daze Thoughtseize split, recommend it to anybody who's thinking otherwise. If you're running Lotus Petals, it's because you want to be fast, and nothing can protect you well under those speeds like a well placed Daze. Without Petals, that a whole other world of slow, and then we can talk about casting costs to get things done. I never wished Thoughtseize was something else whenever I saw it.

[Esper3k]

Be very careful about using Chain of Vapor. If you need it to bounce a problematic permanent like Ensnaring Bridge or Humility, they can just sac a land to chain it back at your dude.

[Worldslayer]

Round one and show and tell are why I never mind two or so flusterstorm in my sideboard. Were both aggressive, but our ability to leverage countermagic is the real trump in underground sea mirrors.

Your thoughts on tidespout essentially mirror my own, and any standard reanimator list I pilot will most likely use terastadon and/or ashen rider in the future. Probably terastadon. For every game I remember where he was awesome (12post two Phillies ago, looking at you) there's four more where he comes into play and does between zero and one things other than die. It's a rare case I need to bounce more than one thing, so I'd rather just blow it up. The sneak utility loss from tidespout leaving is unfortunate, but that's what blazing archon is for anyway.

Congrats on the finish, Pirate King.

Edit: preferred bounce is Wipe Away if you're looking at actual spells. Echoing truth is a close second. Chain I'm not huge on, but there's a pretty heavy concentration of Uw rip players in Philly so im a little biased. Isn't there a bounce spell that transmutes? Is that any good? I can't remember the costs offhand.

[PirateKing]

Be very careful about using Chain of Vapor. If you need it to bounce a problematic permanent like Ensnaring Bridge or Humility, they can just sac a land to chain it back at your dude.

Chain of Vapor is only ever a pre-reanimate tool, aiming for RiP or Leyline of the Void or Ooze or something. Echoing Truth for after, and Pithing Needle for lands. I used to run Wipe Away but it was always too expensive to come to fruition in time. and that was before DRS.

Round one and show and tell are why I never mind two or so flusterstorm in my sideboard. Were both aggressive, but our ability to leverage countermagic is the real trump in underground sea mirrors.

Your thoughts on tidespout essentially mirror my own, and any standard reanimator list I pilot will most likely use terastadon and/or ashen rider in the future. Probably terastadon. For every game I remember where he was awesome (12post two Phillies ago, looking at you) there's four more where he comes into play and does between zero and one things other than die. It's a rare case I need to bounce more than one thing, so I'd rather just blow it up. The sneak utility loss from tidespout leaving is unfortunate, but that's what blazing archon is for anyway.

Congrats on the finish, Pirate King.

Edit: preferred bounce is Wipe Away if you're looking at actual spells. Echoing truth is a close second. Chain I'm not huge on, but there's a pretty heavy concentration of Uw rip players in Philly so im a little biased. Isn't there a bounce spell that transmutes? Is that any good? I can't remember the costs offhand.

I had Flusterstorm on me but had Massacre in their sideboard slot, prepared for all sorts of Blade and Midrange nonsense, since that is my meta at home. I really should clean my act up and craft a proper sideboard. I almost feel like I'd just run Boomerang over Wipe Away for cost reasons, the split second's use is in the same boat as Tidespout, not saying it'll never be of use, but that extra is forever.

[feline]

1st SCG of the year & we have our first placings of the year, congrats to Jon Naskrent & Matthew Ucci who both made the top 16 at SCG Indianapolis.

[Esper3k]

Chain of Vapor is only ever a pre-reanimate tool, aiming for RiP or Leyline of the Void or Ooze or something. Echoing Truth for after, and Pithing Needle for lands. I used to run Wipe Away but it was always too expensive to come to fruition in time. and that was before DRS.

Sure, but if you're running a split, you can't always count on getting the better one when you need it. I prefer all just Echoing Truth because of that.

For reference though, I was responding to when you said:

"I'd rather S&T Griselbrand to search for the Chain of Vapor to bounce the problem card, so that is what I will do." in the tournament report.

[PirateKing]

Sure, but if you're running a split, you can't always count on getting the better one when you need it. I prefer all just Echoing Truth because of that.

For reference though, I was responding to when you said:

"I'd rather S&T Griselbrand to search for the Chain of Vapor to bounce the problem card, so that is what I will do." in the tournament report.

Wow, right, that was a thing I said. Let it never be said that I was good at this game

[Esper3k]

Wow, right, that was a thing I said. Let it never be said that I was good at this game

Hah you did well enough! Just hope you didn't actually do that :)

[Juice11]

Just curious if anybody has tried a transformational sideboard?

I'm playing a pretty standard 60, but have tinkered with cutting the petals for 2 lands and 2 more counters. Adding some consistency over explosiveness. I find the petals only good within the first 2-3 turns and after that are really dead draws. With the petals I can occasionally go off 1st turn and pretty often on the second turn this is without back up. Without the petals, I typically go off a turn or 2 later, but it is often with 1 or 2 sources of backup.


I've been tinkering with a transformational sideboard for decks with a lot of graveyard hate. I've been thinking a set of delvers and maybe a few stalkers/TNNs. I haven't really come up with anything great, but was curious. The idea I had is to cut the whole reanimation package (13 cards with an animate dead) and add the show and tells and another 9 cards that could win a game without a graveyard.

[Stryfo]

I have tried delvers and part of a transformational board before, the problem is that we are a combo deck and have too many cards that are just bad outside of our deck. That said, there are certainly cards in my board that make my deck seem transformational, but are powerful within the existing framework of the deck. To be a bit more clear, my solution to beating graveyard hate has always been bounce, but against some decks I like having backup plans. For example, against miracles I bring in cards like V Clique, and Venser because they are beaters that serve another purpose.

Any time I can find a creature that is fairly cheap (matchup dependent) and really good in a matchup I like to try it out in my sideboard because it plays so well with the entire idea of the deck. For example, against RUG delver, I like to bring in a pair of baleful strix because of how powerful he is against their deck and because he can't be spell pierced or flusterstormed (In addition, he can be reanimated for sweet value) I think that a full blown transformational sideboard is too hard for the traditional build of the deck, but a partial transformation to support the initial strategy is perfectly fine and doable.


For reference, creatures I have worked with so far as well as how many I play/played:

Baleful Strix (All-Star when I bring it in) 2

Venser (Awesome) 1

V Clique (Great) 1

Pack Rat (Limited testing, but has been pretty sweet when I do bring him in) 1

Delver (This one I liked less since he took up too many slots, I didn't feel he was strong enough as a one of) 4

Notion Thief (Didn't play with this for long, because I liked my board against decks I'd bring it in for well enough already) 1

Judge's Familiar (This guy wasn't bad, but took up too many slots) 3

Deathrite Shaman (Only tried this in one weekly, didn't really like it, though the mana ability was pretty sweet) 2