Cockatrice? Lol. Sylvan Basilisk is just so much better there.Originally Posted by HSCK
Alternatively, TNN can't block fliers or dudes equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice.
That card is definitely the tech...I wonder what innovations we'll be seeing this weekend in Indy.
Has anyone had issues with blood moon? I run 4 basics but an early moon really hurts. Sneak and show can slam one down turn1 and even with 4 basics, no fetches makes it difficult for a 3-color deck. Not as bad as UWr delver but our curve is a bit higher, and they are at least somewhat on color.
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Nothing you can do. They can also Show and Tell turn 1. Run your usual disenchant and hope that you have counters at the ready. That scenario never happens or when it does you might as well have a force of will.
I guess my question is, is that a normal sideboard choice against us for SnT to make, bringing in the blood moons?
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I don't know if it's right, but S&T players will often bring in Blood Moon.
The thing is, they usually can't slam one down T1, and if you're fetching wisely early, the value to them is much diminished and can actually be counterproductive to their plans.
I suspect there is some next leveling involved– if they think you're going to play around Blood Moon they probably don't want it cause you taxing your mana to play around it is good enough for them; if they think they can catch you unawares, they'll bring it in. It may be a case of side in for Game 2 for a free win, side out for Game 3 if you're playing around it.
So, I've been thinking. What happens if you replace the black pieces in an esper list with red sideboard cards and still use the same shell. Ofc the maindeck discard needs to be replaced by fluster/pierce/snare but otherwise the sideboard would be stronger against the TNN meta.
But why do you wanna drop black ? Black gives you access to Zealous Persecution, Toxic Deluge, Engineered Plague etc. Sp many good cards against TNN
If you ask me i would stay with black. Furthermore you have Thoughtseize to kik TNN out of the opponents' hand.
Black can never protect itself from a topdeck and doesnt take care of jace on board. Which is something red does. I know of all the strong black cards, but I just feel that I board out almost all discard against so many decks. Information is key, but what if I whiff and he draws it from the top? On the other hand, the situation might be reverse where I draw into a REB and not ZP to kill his TNN.
How do we feel about Liliana in the sideboard to combat Miracles? The deck is looking like it's making a resurgence in my meta (3 of the top 4 decks yesterday were Miracles, with me being the only one not). I lost my only match yesterday against Miracles, but I lost soundly. Granted, I don't have a huge amount of experience with the matchup, but I know that miracles has problems with planeswalkers on the other side of the board.
Liliana could be incidentally brought in as well against combo decks, so it wouldn't necessarily be a one trick pony. The only issue I'm concerned about is the double black, though.
Thoughts?
Liliana sure is a decent Option, but i think more Vendillion Clique and Pithing Needle are even better. I personaly always play the 1-off Clique since it prevents Entreats, Terminus, catches Jace and Liliana eot and is still decent against combo. Needle names Top most of the time, because Miracle is just a durdle-top.dec and if they cant control their draws the deck gets a lot weaker. Kinda depends on how much TNN you are facing too.
Black is bad against top decks but that's why you have blue. Black takes a card and gives you information about what to counter (or what not to). It stops them from baiting counters also. I much prefer the control aspect of black to the removal and extra damage of red. A lightning bolt is a better top deck but overall I would rather the control.
As far as liliana goes I've never felt like she is worth it. Then again I've never felt like I needed anything she has to offer.
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Notion Thief. Miracles dont care about Liliana.
Claiming that Miracles don't care about Liliana is a bold statement, and most likely straight up wrong. Liliana forces Miracle to act - as it will nuke down alot of their permanents once ultimated.
BUT
Liliana is a threat against Miracle in decks like Jund or such, that can commit all of their hand onto the board as soon as they draw it. Esperblade cannot really do that.
Concluding, yeah Lilly is a fine idea against Miracles, but needs a dedicated and probably overall worse boardingplan, resulting in unnecessary dissynergies and such. Notion Thief on the other hand is good and fits into your playstyle. So yeah, agreed on Notion Thief being better, but not on your reasoning.
Greetings
Thats what you get for answering shortly on your phone. What I meant is that a single Liliana without any pressure (just like you said) does almost nothing against miracles until it reaches 7 loyalty. Discarding cards when there is nothing on board except her means nothing since miracles can filter and just find that answer to her quite quickly. I would rather resolve a Notion Thief than a Liliana against miracles. Especially when they draw a card with top that will otherwise ruin my day.
Liliana is not as rough against Miracles as some other decks if they have a resolved Top because they can manipulate card order even if hellbent. She has to be answered eventually, but without anything else pressuring them, Miracles can tough it through even an ultimate (Top can always survive an ultimate). Jace usually trumps her.
She's more effective in Jund because they can use Hymn to get you hellbent faster, get her out faster, and develop lots of board pressure.
Notion Thief is cute and can lead to blowouts, but Miracles has lots of creature removal and waiting for an opportune time to cast him may lead you to trouble. Vendilion Clique is probably just better, because it can interact directly with the miracle mechanic, and is better in combo matchups. I play with one main and one on the board.
Equipment is also good because Miracles can't deal with that very well.
Engineered Explosives can get rid of Counterbalance while being cast at inconvenient CMCs.
If they don't have Rest in Peace out, Lingering Souls can present a resilient problem for them, especially if you have equipment to suit them up with.
Elspeth is also good (better than Lilliana I'd say), but then the issue is WW instead of BB.
WW is so much easier to attain than BB. This deck is UW Stoneblade with a small black splash. Liliana is best against matchups that are already good for the most part and I like notion thief for Miracles but I think that Elspeth is better than both. As far as clique is concerned, it's good but they play their own Legendary creature package along with Karakas. Also, top makes clique worse.
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I would say that you are wrong. Most lists play with these sources:
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
9-11 Fetches/utilitylands
This calls for the exact same manaavailability.
I guess it's possible. I prefer the 4/2 split on tundra and USea, respectively. 9 fetches and a karakas. I also checked my list and realized I'm running a 2nd plains. Herm. I run 2 jace and a main deck elspeth. Anyway after looking over my list I suppose it's not a run - of - the - mill netdeck. For me, I guess I'm right.
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I am curious on the differences between Deathblade and (Esper)Blade Control. I think playing Bob makes a deck Deathblade but how about playing DRS or FoW? Is it considered Deathblade to play any amount of DRS? Isn't Deathblade generally too low on blue cards to support FoW, and thus plays additional discard? Both decks share a common creature suite (SFM, Nemesis, Snapcaster/Clique), similar disruption (TS, IoK, FoW, Pierce), and a couple of Jaces. Is it considered Blade Control if you play more than 3 basic lands, or any number of sweepers (EE, Verdict)? The line between the two archetypes is very slim. If 4 DRS is all it takes to draw the line, I think it is a bit excessive to talk about different decks altogether.
Anyways, here's the list I play and how it fluctuates:
Creatures (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (18)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
Others (6)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands (22)
2 Wasteland
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
Sideboard (15)
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Disenchant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Sometimes I like to go the 3/3 split between Snap and Nemesis or the 2/2 split between TS and IoK. Sometimes the Lilies and the 4th USea make way for a combination of Vindicates, Edicts, Island/Waste. Sometimes I like to play a 3/3/2 split between TS/FoW/Pierce. If I were to change 4 DRS for something like a couple of sweepers and counters, would it be more appropriate to discuss card choices in this thread?
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
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