[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Barbed Blightning]

Oh well, I didn't realize you were referring just to the maindeck.

The curious thing is some recent Jund lists (I've seen one or two making top 16) play Golgari charm even maindeck.
I don't agree with this move and I've seen it rarely, but I guess it depends from the success of TNN and, well, D&T.


I'd like to add that in my opinion, Jund should not be considered a bad matchup for D&T. Considering my results, I'd call it pretty even and depends a lot on the draws, particularly on how many mana sources is Jund playing and drawing. If Jund gets its engine working it's difficult to stop, but it requires a lot of mana and it's not particularly hard for D&T to screw Jund out of the game. That's why I'm always happy when I see 3-4 lands hand, and I often keep it even if the lands are 5. If I see less than 3 mana sources counting lands and Shamans, I'm always inclined to mulligan vs D&T, and I would keep it only if they were basics of fetchlands.

It's true Jund has a lot of answers to D&T, particularly the Grove-Punishing sinergy, but D&T too as many "counter-answers": Wasteland for Grove, RIP for half Jund deck, Liege for Liliana, Hymn and Golgari charm (I'm so afraid of him that I board out all Hymns and I think very carefully before +1 Liliana), Revoker for Liliana and Shaman, StP for Confidant, and the list goes on...
...so I really wouldn't say it's an unfavorable matchup.

I actually agree with you. I'd add the caveat that while Jund is certainly difficult it is not "bad" in the way that say Elves or Belcher is. Jund's plethora of removal makes games difficult, but as you pointed out, we are not without tools of our own. Thus the matchup comes down to luck and skill (especially the skill of dealing with how lucky/unlucky you are). It's not that either deck necessarily roles over the other but in how they maneuver throughout the games

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[Mr. Froggy]

Eldrazi are so herp-derp.. -_- Damn TurboEldrazi..

[Barbed Blightning]

Eldrazi are so herp-derp.. -_- Damn TurboEldrazi..

I can't imagine that the matchup is that horrendous; we have Mangara, Revoker for Map/Top, Mindcensor post board as well as Cataclysm.

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[Mr. Froggy]

I can't imagine that the matchup is that horrendous; we have Mangara, Revoker for Map/Top, Mindcensor post board as well as Cataclysm.

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I did exactly that in game 3, but he ends up casting SnT some eldrazi.. -_- game 2 I'm controlling the whole game, he topdecks his eldrazi land, search Emrakul swing -_-

[Barbed Blightning]

So, boarding:
-4 StP
-4 Thalia
+2 cataclysm
+2 mindcensor
+2 e bridge
+1 needle
+1 o ring

Needle goes on Eye of Ugin

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[Maagler]

I can't imagine that the matchup is that horrendous; we have Mangara, Revoker for Map/Top, Mindcensor post board as well as Cataclysm.

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I have played this match extensively on both sides. Dnt should win almost every time if the player knows what they are doing.

On the other hand I have never lost a tournament match vs dnt with turbodrazi because most people dont know how to battle the deck.

The post deck's main gameplan against you is to show and tell in a Primeval Titian. If you have heavy board position at the time of the show and tell, they are likely to get glacial chasm, or glimmerposts to gain life and buy time.

You want to wasteland them and port them out of the game as quickly as possible with a threat. If they are short on colored sources it might be advantageous to port or waste those instead of a cloudpost. If they tap out of green mana you are free to waste, DO NOT WALK INTO CROP ROTATION UNLESS YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO. If the cloupost player uses needle (many do main) flickerwisp becomes your best friend. You can remove cloudposts and have them come back into play tapped. You probably should revoker in this order: top, map, candelabra, but that is situationaly dependant.

Aven mindsensor is great against map and prime time in addition to fetches, keep that in mind when you are choosing what to put into play off of a show and tell.

The biggest thing to winning against this deck though is bringing in cataclysm or Armageddon from the side. Those cards pretty much wreck.

My 2¢

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[Mr. Froggy]

I'll post the videos later, you guys can tell me my mistakes?

[Finn]

Yeah, Jund is the only bad matchup that is also grindy. As such, I have stolen quite a few. If I draw two or three STP, I usually win, for example. Or if I get Mangara recursion. Or my first Mystic goes flawlessly into Batterskull. Or I draw all my mana denial. Stuff like that.

[Barbed Blightning]

I'll post the videos later, you guys can tell me my mistakes?

And what you did right! :)

That's perhaps the most critical component of learning this deck in the early stages: understanding your shortcomings, yes, but also appreciating your victories, too. I became jaded because I failed to focus on the latter.

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[Maagler]

So, boarding:
-4 StP
-4 Thalia
+2 cataclysm
+2 mindcensor
+2 e bridge
+1 needle
+1 o ring

Needle goes on Eye of Ugin

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Im not sure if pulling thalia is correct. On the second turn he mucks things up pretty good.

Also ensnaring bridge is only good against a primeval titain so it might not be worth it since they will already get the two lands from it. They can also easily repeal bridge.

I'll post the videos later, you guys can tell me my mistakes?

Yes please.


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[BlackStarDeceiver]

Im not sure if pulling thalia is correct. On the second turn he mucks things up pretty good.

Also ensnaring bridge is only good against a primeval titain so it might not be worth it since they will already get the two lands from it. They can also easily repeal bridge.

I'd rather cut 1 SFM, the Jitte and 2 Revoker, depending on the absence/presence of Candelabra and keep Thalia.

[Maagler]

I'd rather cut 1 SFM, the Jitte and 2 Revoker, depending on the absence/presence of Candelabra and keep Thalia.

Yeah jitte isnt great in the match.

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[Mr. Froggy]

Alright, here is Game 1 of my match vs TurboEldrazi!

Feel free to critique!

[raikenxy]

Alright, here is Game 1 of my match vs TurboEldrazi!

Feel free to critique!

the most glaring thing i noticed was not using your wastelands after having a very stable board presence. You should be abusing vial a lot more, your mana base in thar game was perfect for disrupting him... not vialing mom in end of turn with vial on one was also pretty glaring. on turn three you had vial, plains, port established.... had you vialed in mom end of turn, ticked vial to two... you would have been able to play a thalia off the vial, use a waste land to burn his post, and ported him once again to put him on zero lands ... having zero lands on turn 3 is pretty crippling for any deck... you then could have followed up your tur four by vialing in a revoker on his top then wasting his second dropped land... which meant he would have been on zero lands turn four... with a broken top, and you with five power on board and an active vial... if i was him and that was the game state i would have scooped as he was essentially in the lock. im fairly certain all of this woud have happened before he cast the pithing needle which im assuming was on wasteland

[Mr. Froggy]

the most glaring thing i noticed was not using your wastelands after having a very stable board presence. You should be abusing vial a lot more, your mana base in thar game was perfect for disrupting him... not vialing mom in end of turn with vial on one was also pretty glaring. on turn three you had vial, plains, port established.... had you vialed in mom end of turn, ticked vial to two... you would have been able to play a thalia off the vial, use a waste land to burn his post, and ported him once again to put him on zero lands ... having zero lands on turn 3 is pretty crippling for any deck... you then could have followed up your tur four by vialing in a revoker on his top then wasting his second dropped land... which meant he would have been on zero lands turn four... with a broken top, and you with five power on board and an active vial... if i was him and that was the game state i would have scooped as he was essentially in the lock

Yeah, I know about the missed vialed in Mom I had clicked "yield to EoT" but forgot I did.. :s

[raikenxy]

Yeah, I know about the missed vialed in Mom I had clicked "yield to EoT" but forgot I did.. :s

as long as your aware then! if you hadn't missed the vial the game would have played out in very much the manner i described i think. but that's just theoretical

[Barbed Blightning]

as long as your aware then! if you hadn't missed the vial the game would have played out in very much the manner i described i think. but that's just theoretical

Your analysis looks completely correct to me; it's kind of funny how tiny things like that build up over the course of the game. But, such is Legacy

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[Mr. Froggy]

I felt like I set myself back a whole turn when I did the mistake.... -_-

EDIT: Thanks for the help though. :)

[raikenxy]

I felt like I set myself back a whole turn when I did the mistake.... -_-

EDIT: Thanks for the help though. :)

lol, you actually did. but the fact you realize this is good... next time if your in that situation i would actuallyjust advise not playing the mother of runes... andinstead go about using your mana to disrupt his development. all your missing out on is a mom shield, but if the lines of play i outlined were done... he would have had no mana to to do anything to your thalia anyway. Next time if you miss the trigger just go about your business of mana denial and develop your board with the natural aether vial curve.

[Mr. Froggy]

lol, you actually did. but the fact you realize this is good... next time if your in that situation i would actuallyjust advise not playing the mother of runes... andinstead go about using your mana to disrupt his development. all your missing out on is a mom shield, but if the lines of play i outlined were done... he would have had no mana to to do anything to your thalia anyway. Next time if you miss the trigger just go about your business of mana denial and develop your board with the natural aether vial curve.

One thing I wasn't sure of was using Wastelands on Glimmerposts. Should I use them on those or keep them for Cloudposts?