[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[MTG Junkie]

I realized I messed up and was trying to think of a way to win. With out a LP.

[DarkJester]

Sry...

[Koby]

What am I missing here? Why not just use Petal before DD and float the needed mana and then put it into your Pile after DD again?

I was thinking the same thing before I saw two posters already found a pile that didn't need to use LP at all.

[JamieW89]

I was thinking the same thing before I saw two posters already found a pile that didn't need to use LP at all.

Not just any pile either, the most basic one of all, that you can use in most situations :P.

Edit: You could actually wish for a black draw-4 here if you had wanted:
LED,LED,GP,X,BW wins for 12 life pre-DD if you just cast LP,,LED,Wish->IC, IC from LED mana.
LED,LED,LED,BW,X wins for 8 life pre-DD by GP->LED, LED,LED,LP, BW->IC making BBB + RRR.


PS: I 5-2'd with a UBr list in a GP Prague side event last Sunday. Losses were to D&T with Chalice and Peedle combined with the usual package and to Sneaky Show where I punted g1 playing sloppily after him having drawn 21 cards of Griselbrand. Turns out I had a line that won through his hand, oops. Massacre was a house versus the UWR tempo and Deathblade decks with hatebears as well as the good old Thalia decks, really liked having 2.

[DarkJester]

Not just any pile either, the most basic one of all, that you can use in most situations :P.

I 5-2'd with a UBr list in a GP Prague side event last Sunday. Losses were to D&T with Chalice and Peedle combined with the usual package and to Sneaky Show where I punted g1 playing sloppily after him having drawn 21 cards of Griselbrand. Turns out I had a line that won through his hand, oops. Massacre was a house versus the UWR tempo and Deathblade decks with hatebears as well as the good old Thalia decks, really liked having 2.

Congratz!
I simply misunderstood the question regarding the Pile: I thought that he tries to force a Pile starting with Contract. I'm still puzzling, but I think that there is always exactly one black mana missing ;)

[emidln]

In general I try not to feed trolls, but here goes. I answered shortly as it was requested.

This is not a deck that most people can simply pick up and do well with. The report is lost in one of the random site refreshes of Channel Fireball, but there was a report from Webster where he played DDFT in a GP (maybe Columbus? it was the one right after Mystical was banned) on zero practice simply because TK happened to do well with it at a GPT in Wisconsin. The report mentioned how he didn't prepare, but felt that overall playskill as well as familiarity with both storm and Doomsday from other formats could carry him with his 3 byes. It did not. He didn't even come close to making day 2, and the report was littered with places where he later realized there was a win, but didn't see it for lack of practice.

It's not that this is a particularly difficult deck to play correctly. Playing aggro-control correctly over the course of an event is probably harder. This deck is easy mode for someone who knows their deck inside and out. We have 11 maindeck ways to look at/shred your opponent's hand. We have a pile that wins in 90% of the situations for 1UU or UU in IU, GP, LED, LED, BW. The hard part is fetching your lands and knowing how to play your cantrips for maximum effect. Cantrips serve as acceleration and as fixing to help grind your opponent down. Playing cantrips in Doomsday is more akin to playing them in Tempo Thresh than playing cantrips in ANT or TES. Blowing Brainstorms, misplaying Ponders, and undervaluing fetchlands lead to game losses a lot quicker here than in most other decks. Your window is typically very small. Doomsday doesn't often overpower an opponent as much as it pokes and prods until it catches them thinking that Force + Daze is good enough.

Most people do not cantrip well. Most people do not learn their deck to the appropriate degree. I see articles on Doomsday mentioning "tricks" like tapping SDT and bouncing it Chain of Vapor to "cycle" your Chain of Vapor. If this is a trick that has to be pointed out, you're probably not doing well. You don't know your deck well enough. Doomsday is one of the easiest cards in magic if you know your deck. You stack the five cards that win the game. You do not cast if there aren't five cards that win the game. That's not downplaying difficulty, patronizing the posters on this forum, or anything other than a fact. It's a rote thing after awhile, and the challenge is making sure your deck executes exactly the same regardless of what your opponent attempts to stop you with.

[MTG Junkie]

What is the highest storm cont you have reached and how?

[emidln]

I executed this as a joke at a local tourney shortly after I figured out that it was possible: http://pastebin.com/f460f133

The idea is that if you have a Wheel of Sun and Moon targetting a player with LEDs , Doomsday, Meditate, and Tendrils of Agony then that play can go infinite mana, infinite life, play infinite copies of tendrils with the right setup.

I also played Helm of Awakening + 2x Sensei's Divining Top + Grapeshot/Brain Freeze/Tendrils several times as, before Thalia, it was a fairly good way to deal with hate bears.

I don't go above 30 storm very often in normal play. There have been several times when I've been around 20 storm and cast Tendrils multiple times via Doomsday recursion.

[MTG Junkie]

When you say DD recursion are you referring to a double DD pile? What do those look like?

[JamieW89]

When you say DD recursion are you referring to a double DD pile? What do those look like?

There is a fairly good post on double DD piles over at the stormboards: http://teamstormboards.proboards.com...doomsday-piles
If you want to get into this deck it's probably better to go there anyways, since there is more information on those boards than in this thread.

[Milqman]

In general I try not to feed trolls, but here goes. I answered shortly as it was requested.

This is not a deck that most people can simply pick up and do well with. The report is lost in one of the random site refreshes of Channel Fireball, but there was a report from Webster where he played DDFT in a GP (maybe Columbus? it was the one right after Mystical was banned) on zero practice simply because TK happened to do well with it at a GPT in Wisconsin. The report mentioned how he didn't prepare, but felt that overall playskill as well as familiarity with both storm and Doomsday from other formats could carry him with his 3 byes. It did not. He didn't even come close to making day 2, and the report was littered with places where he later realized there was a win, but didn't see it for lack of practice.

It's not that this is a particularly difficult deck to play correctly. Playing aggro-control correctly over the course of an event is probably harder. This deck is easy mode for someone who knows their deck inside and out. We have 11 maindeck ways to look at/shred your opponent's hand. We have a pile that wins in 90% of the situations for 1UU or UU in IU, GP, LED, LED, BW. The hard part is fetching your lands and knowing how to play your cantrips for maximum effect. Cantrips serve as acceleration and as fixing to help grind your opponent down. Playing cantrips in Doomsday is more akin to playing them in Tempo Thresh than playing cantrips in ANT or TES. Blowing Brainstorms, misplaying Ponders, and undervaluing fetchlands lead to game losses a lot quicker here than in most other decks. Your window is typically very small. Doomsday doesn't often overpower an opponent as much as it pokes and prods until it catches them thinking that Force + Daze is good enough.

Most people do not cantrip well. Most people do not learn their deck to the appropriate degree. I see articles on Doomsday mentioning "tricks" like tapping SDT and bouncing it Chain of Vapor to "cycle" your Chain of Vapor. If this is a trick that has to be pointed out, you're probably not doing well. You don't know your deck well enough. Doomsday is one of the easiest cards in magic if you know your deck. You stack the five cards that win the game. You do not cast if there aren't five cards that win the game. That's not downplaying difficulty, patronizing the posters on this forum, or anything other than a fact. It's a rote thing after awhile, and the challenge is making sure your deck executes exactly the same regardless of what your opponent attempts to stop you with.

Feeding trolls? Answering as requested? His question was why play DD instead of ANT. The first time you avoided the question entirely so I took the liberty of giving a short answer for you. The second time you tried, you wrote an extremely lengthy reply but managed to fail even more spectacularly in answering the question. Not once in your entire response did you address why you should play DD instead of ANT.

He asked what should have been the expert on the deck on his opinion on what advantages the deck holds over ANT, and twice now your response has been a pretty huge letdown.

I'm still curious if your answer is any different than the one I gave, but you might actually have to read his entire 7 word question to be able to answer it correctly this time. Granted, its in pretty broken english, but with the slightest bit of deduction you understand the question is "What advantages does DD have over ANT?" 7 Words. You can do this.

[Namida]

Wait a minute. Did you read the same thing I read?

Sorry. New to the deck
Why should i play ddft instead of ant? Just few words.

His question was "Why should I play Doomsday instead of ANT?" You're painting the poster out to be a victim and the response to be douchey by interpreting the question in the most respectful and positive light. The way I read it is like this: "Convince me that this deck you've been designing for at least seven years matters enough that I should deign to play it." Given that none of us are door-to-door salesmen desperate to tell anyone who will listen about how awesome and original our pet deck is, that's the wrong approach to take--especially when you're trying to get information about a deck you're supposedly legitimately interested in. It's weird to me that you are so indignant about someone refusing to give a detailed and passionate response to a question that implies a level of interest in the deck that appears to be a shade stronger than actual apathy. I mean, it's not like Doomsday players are a secret club and we're hiding all the information from anyone who wants it. Even if that were the case, you don't just get a pamphlet and a decoder ring for merely deciding to entertain the idea of playing this deck.

Basically:

Fuck off! It's not brain surgery. It's not even chess. Anybody that wants to can figure it out in a few months.

I agree with this; however, I think Doomsday is so unforgiving compared to other decks that if you don't devote enough time to learning how to play it inside and out from the beginning then you will never learn how to play this deck at a level high enough to make it anything more than a constant source of frustration. Furthermore, I would contend that the kind of person who would take these kinds of shortcuts on gauging if he's even interested enough to try the deck is someone who probably wouldn't care enough to take a few months to "figure the deck out."

And that is why the reply was "If you have to ask, then the answer is you shouldn't."

[Lemnear]

Sorry. New to the deck
Why should i play ddft instead of ant? Just few words.

[Countertoplol]

A Duress has been cut for a Chromatic Sphere. Chromatic Sphere serves two major purposes:

(1) Provides a lab maniac pile that is immune to removal and LED compatible (2UU).
(2) Provides a way to store a draw step with Doomsday. This makes 5 total.

Would somebody be so kind as to explain this labman pile to me? I can't figure it out :(

[gregtron]

Would somebody be so kind as to explain this labman pile to me? I can't figure it out :(

Are you asking how Chrome Sphere makes Maniac immune to removal? If that's the question, then it's because drawing a card and making mana are both part of Sphere's mana ability. Sphere on the stack, everyone passes priority it resolves -> Maniac on the stack, everyone passes priority and it resolves -> You regain priority after the resolution of Maniac. Activate Chromatic Sphere, making a color of mana and drawing a card as a mana ability, without using the stack, and without your opponent being able to Abrupt Decay your Maniac before you win.

Or are you asking what the pile is? I think this works with Brainstorm in hand, 1U floating, and LED in play:

Ideas Unbound
LED
Probe
Sphere
Maniac

[Countertoplol]

Are you asking how Chrome Sphere makes Maniac immune to removal? If that's the question, then it's because drawing a card and making mana are both part of Sphere's mana ability. Sphere on the stack, everyone passes priority it resolves -> Maniac on the stack, everyone passes priority and it resolves -> You regain priority after the resolution of Maniac. Activate Chromatic Sphere, making a color of mana and drawing a card as a mana ability, without using the stack, and without your opponent being able to Abrupt Decay your Maniac before you win.

Or are you asking what the pile is? I think this works with Brainstorm in hand, 1U floating, and LED in play:

Ideas Unbound
LED
Probe
Sphere
Maniac

I was curious about both things actually, thanks a lot for clearing that up for me.

[Milqman]

Wait a minute. Did you read the same thing I read?



His question was "Why should I play Doomsday instead of ANT?" You're painting the poster out to be a victim and the response to be douchey by interpreting the question in the most respectful and positive light. The way I read it is like this: "Convince me that this deck you've been designing for at least seven years matters enough that I should deign to play it." Given that none of us are door-to-door salesmen desperate to tell anyone who will listen about how awesome and original our pet deck is, that's the wrong approach to take--especially when you're trying to get information about a deck you're supposedly legitimately interested in. It's weird to me that you are so indignant about someone refusing to give a detailed and passionate response to a question that implies a level of interest in the deck that appears to be a shade stronger than actual apathy. I mean, it's not like Doomsday players are a secret club and we're hiding all the information from anyone who wants it. Even if that were the case, you don't just get a pamphlet and a decoder ring for merely deciding to entertain the idea of playing this deck.

Basically:



I agree with this; however, I think Doomsday is so unforgiving compared to other decks that if you don't devote enough time to learning how to play it inside and out from the beginning then you will never learn how to play this deck at a level high enough to make it anything more than a constant source of frustration. Furthermore, I would contend that the kind of person who would take these kinds of shortcuts on gauging if he's even interested enough to try the deck is someone who probably wouldn't care enough to take a few months to "figure the deck out."

And that is why the reply was "If you have to ask, then the answer is you shouldn't."

The guy's English is terrible. It's terrible in every single post he makes. Go through his history, its hundreds of pages of super polite posts written in extremely bad English where he says "thank you" in every single post he makes.

Pronouns are weird in English if you aren't a native speaker. Source: I'm not a native speaker.

Its a super dumb question, and only someone who assumes people are rude would think this. Any native speaker should have been able to figure out in a few seconds what he was trying to say.

What would a polite person be trying to ask with that question, I took a few second and came up with the answer.

Nobody asks "knowing nothing about me, tell me why I should play this deck?" He must be trying to figure out what reasons to play DD instead of ANT.

Milqman thx for your support and understanding
. I need no more answers.

Hey look. It wasn't that hard.

Deduction helps for analyzing board states. I took the winning line and made the right play, that's why I'm the best.

[Namida]

I see what you're trying to say, but being polite about wanting your hand held doesn't mean that you're any more entitled to it. Hell, I would go so far to say that something along the lines of "Fuck this deck because ANT is superior for reasons X Y and Z" has a better chance of generating a discussion to compare and contrast Doomsday to ANT than "Just tell me why this is good."

Let me put it this way:

Would somebody be so kind as to explain this labman pile to me? I can't figure it out :(

^This post at least implies "I tried to figure this out," and I would say that the people here are willing to help those who at least appear to put effort into understanding things themselves.

To answer this question: gregtron explained why Chromatic Sphere beats removal. The specific pile that emidln was talking about is Ideas Unbound, LED, Gitaxian Probe, Chromatic Sphere, Laboratory Maniac. It needs 2UU and you need at least 3 life on the turn after you Doomsday. You cast Doomsday, and pass the turn. On your next turn, you draw and cast Ideas Unbound, drawing LED, Probe, and Sphere. you cast LED, cast the Sphere, and cast the Probe--but you retain priority while Probe is on the stack and activate your LED for blue mana. You draw the Laboratory Maniac, and cast it with the LED mana. You use the remaining mana to activate the Sphere to win the game.

[MTG Junkie]

Played emidln's list -Tendrils,Sphere,1 Volc,Island and a Swamp +Cabal Therapy,LP,Trop,Badlands and A Bayou at the local tonight. I moved the Sphere and Tendrils to the board making it look like this

3 AD
3 Swarm
1 Sphere
1 Lab Man
2 Tendrils
1 DD
1 Infernal Contract
1 TS
2 Massacre

Rd 1 Mono U Illusionary Mask-Punted hard lol staring down a 12/12 I went of with DD only to realize i did not have a way to draw the IU. I dont know what the fuck i was thinking lol.

Rd 2 by

Rd 3 Mono B Small Pox-win game one because im a combo deck. Game to he has LOTV out i make a pass the turn pile only to relize i need my yard to win. PUNT. Game three was awesome i brought in the Sphere and Lab Man,it felt like it was the best pass the turn pile so i went for it. The game went like this, i have Top + Fetchs and Cantrips making his discard not that good. I eventually play DD with LED, Sphere and like 5 lands in play. I made a pile of Ideas Unbound,LED,Probe,Top and Lab Man. I pass and am at five life with no hand. He has a Rack in play and draws another casts and passes. Im like fuck i lose,yup i loose to double The Rack wtf. Then i realize it, i put the Racks on the stack and draw a card,putting me at one. I win from there :)

Rd 4 Nic Fit-Game 1 I get a fairly fast DD making IU,LED,Probe,LED and BW and win. Game 2 I took out 2 Duress,1 Chain,1 fetch and A Wish. I know he brings in Extirpate and Teeg. I wanted to have Dark Ritual pile/line so I brought in IC,Tendrils and 3 AD. He disrupts me then plays a Neaither Void. I realize i cant win so on to game 3. I brought back in the discard and the Chain. I was able to win turn 3 via DD/Top making IU,LED,Probe,LED and BW.
Missed top 4.

Even know I messed up a bunch, I learned a lot and thats what counts.

[Maxe]

yeah somebody posted the meme i made a while ago. :D