[Primer] Elves!

[venice]

Pox is a pain to play against, but from what experience I have vs. it, it's not actually that bad of a matchup. You just need to learn to navigate around that first chokehold of Smallpox. If you can get more on the field, it becomes a lot easier. I'm boarding in Swan Songs to stop the Smallpox - the win con in this matchup is Progenitus anyway, and their removal kills the bird. Swan Song also helps stop post-Prog Perishes and Toxic Deluges.

Ruric is also great against Pox, if you have at least one other creature on the board to prevent it from getting edicted. I would even prefer it over Progenitus here.

Also +1 on Swan Song! That´s what I like so much about the card: besides being awesome against our worst MUs, it also improves the more niche MU, which can give you a hard time as well sometimes.

[Yanley]

I did win against pox but facing both The Abyss and Night of Soul's Betrayal is painful

But discard against pox works wonders, most especially cabal therapy when on the play. :)

Going forward, is swan song SB the way to go now? Months ago, i was able to use Swan Song to hit a critical Ad Nauseum in one match but ever since, I've never been able to use it again... how important is the possible inclusion of Swan Song? How many copies if ever?

[yaWgnorW]

Looking for some feedback on something with Swan Song. The situation is we're playing Miracles. We have a resolved Needle naming Top, with Swan Song in hand. They cast Counter Balance. Do we still attempt to use Swan Song here, or hold it for Terminus / FoW?

[Atikin]

Looking for some feedback on something with Swan Song. The situation is we're playing Miracles. We have a resolved Needle naming Top, with Swan Song in hand. They cast Counter Balance. Do we still attempt to use Swan Song here, or hold it for Terminus / FoW?

Probably depends on how the game has been going up leading up to this and what the board state/hand state is. I most likely wouldn't in the majority of situations, with the thought of holding it to counter a future fow/terminus. Even if they turn out to not have those cards in hand and never get them, you will still be able to get a lot of mileage out of the swan song countering other stuff. Whereas if you counter the counterbalance and they DO have the terminus you are screwed.

Basically to wrap it up from my point of view, the worst case scenario in countering the counterbalance (they wipe your board with a later terminus), is a lot worse than the worst case scenario in letting it resolve (they get a lucky flip or use cantrips to counter a spell or two).

[Yanley]

I will not use the Swan Song in that situation simply because we have a plan B for that which is Abrupt Decay. It's also possible to play around counterbalance but that's hoping your opponent doesn't chain one-to-cast spells on top of his library. Swan Song must be reserved for a Terminus more than for a Counterbalance.

[yaWgnorW]

Probably depends on how the game has been going up leading up to this and what the board state/hand state is. I most likely wouldn't in the majority of situations, with the thought of holding it to counter a future fow/terminus. Even if they turn out to not have those cards in hand and never get them, you will still be able to get a lot of mileage out of the swan song countering other stuff. Whereas if you counter the counterbalance and they DO have the terminus you are screwed.

Basically to wrap it up from my point of view, the worst case scenario in countering the counterbalance (they wipe your board with a later terminus), is a lot worse than the worst case scenario in letting it resolve (they get a lucky flip or use cantrips to counter a spell or two).

I will not use the Swan Song in that situation simply because we have a plan B for that which is Abrupt Decay. It's also possible to play around counterbalance but that's hoping your opponent doesn't chain one-to-cast spells on top of his library. Swan Song must be reserved for a Terminus more than for a Counterbalance.

Thanks guys. Ya, I had each thought mentioned here. TBH having Abrupt Decay in the MU as well is something I'd hope to find to deal with it. For the most part I feel Counter Balance is manageable without Top; however while chaining 1cc spells is unlikely for them continuously, it is possible for them to brainstorm 'lock' our elves for 2 turns or so (also unlikely). I just wanted to make sure I wasn't neglecting to think of something in that scenario. Shows how much I play blue ;)

[test1985]

Hi all! Can you please take a look at this Elves Deck.

It's been a while since i last used elves. Can anyone please explain his sideboard? Also, what do you take out for the cards that are getting in? Thanks!

Lastly, can someone help me sideboarding against the ff: If it's not too much, perhaps maybe just a quick tip on what my game plan would be during g1 and g2. What to side out and what to side in?
1. Shardless Bug
2. RUG
3. Patriot Delver/TNN
4. TNN Stoneblade
5. Miracles
6. Sneak Show
7. Ant/TES
8. Elves (Mirror)

Thank you very very very much!

[Lemnear]

Hi all! Can you please take a look at this Elves Deck.

It's been a while since i last used elves. Can anyone please explain his sideboard? Also, what do you take out for the cards that are getting in? Thanks!

Lastly, can someone help me sideboarding against the ff: If it's not too much, perhaps maybe just a quick tip on what my game plan would be during g1 and g2. What to side out and what to side in?
1. Shardless Bug
2. RUG
3. Patriot Delver/TNN
4. TNN Stoneblade
5. Miracles
6. Sneak Show
7. Ant/TES
8. Elves (Mirror)

Thank you very very very much!

You may look at the primer and Julian's BoM 8 Report (splitted in 2 parts on StarCityGames) to find all your questions answered. Please step back from asking him via PM in that regards as his Message folder is perma-flooded with people asking him about boarding since he won BoM. Thanks

[Zombie]

Hi all! Can you please take a look at this Elves Deck.

It's been a while since i last used elves. Can anyone please explain his sideboard? Also, what do you take out for the cards that are getting in? Thanks!

His build is pretty standard - Ruric main to battle combo/spell heavy decks, extra mana dorks and second Hoof for consistency, eschewing the usual silver bullets (forgoing Viridian Shaman nowadays is suicide IMO).

Sideboard is rather standard as well.

Discard: vs. combo, vs. blue decks where NO is the main plan.
NO+Prog: In some matchups NO is the main plan because the opponent just loses horribly to Ruric or Progenitus. Fourth NO gives speed and consistency to that. Is in the board because it can often be clunky in many matchups.
Abrupt Decay: Catchall solution to nasty things. Kills Delvers, Counterbalances, Energy Fields, Aven Mindcensors, Vials...
KGrip: I can only imagine this is here for Miracles and Show and Tell. Hits Leyline of "Yay let's turn mulligans into lottery" and kills Divining Top.
Shaman: Artifact destruction, better maindecked.
Ooze: Faster-than-DRS graveyard hate, and a total boss in many fair matchups esp. vs. tempo.

I can't give out detailed guides atm, but the general patterns of side-outs are:
1. Shave numbers here and there. Lots of -1 this -1 that to make room without hurting versatility.
2. Cut Heritages and Nettles down to 1-2 copies each. The Nettle-Heritage engine requires a lot of resources to actually work, which just isn't realistic in many matchups. The decks that force this usually dislike Symbiote-Visionary and fold to NO-Pro.
3. Cut the Best Friends Team. The Symbiote-Visionary engine kicks ass, but it's slow. Combo decks usually are not slow, and cards pretty much need to beat for 2+ or have otherwise great immediate impact. -3, -3 they go, one copy of each left in for those oddball grindy games.

[Zombie]

You may look at the primer and Julian's BoM 8 Report (splitted in 2 parts on StarCityGames) to find all your questions answered. Please step back from asking him via PM in that regards as his Message folder is perma-flooded with people asking him about boarding since he won BoM. Thanks

Maybe we should change the thread title to "[DTB] Elves! Julian Knab's sideboarding guide on Page 1" to ease the pressure?

[Julian23]

Luckily, Daniel already answered all of your questions. Also regarding the sideboard, asking for an "explanation" is a kinda dull request, you see. Especially since it's pretty much a super genereic sideboard. When I clicked the link I was expecting 15-card singleton madness Nassif-style.

[Eternal]

Specifically, what's the reason to play 2 Dryad arbor ? I love them because I fetch them many times but I cannot explain this. Thanks.

[Lemnear]

Luckily, Daniel already answered all of your questions. Also regarding the sideboard, asking for an "explanation" is a kinda dull request, you see. Especially since it's pretty much a super genereic sideboard. When I clicked the link I was expecting 15-card singleton madness Nassif-style.

I expect the problem lies within the fact that sideboard guides in complete sentences somehow leave people clueless and them rather ask for clear "Matchup A: - card B, + card A" sideboard instructions to print out for tournaments (saw this locally and at the BoM!).

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but after seeing pictures of Julian's PM box and reviewing my own (concerning storm obviously), I have that impression. :/

I'm sure Julian does his best to answer all incomming questions if possible, but I am sometimes inclined to copy&paste some responses ... shame on me :(

[Lemnear]

Specifically, what's the reason to play 2 Dryad arbor ? I love them because I fetch them many times but I cannot explain this. Thanks.

Copy&paste from the primer on page 1:


"Dryad Arbor #2
This card works well with Quirion Ranger, Fetchlands, Crop Rotation and in longer games, or grindy matchups, it is sometimes nice to have access to a second copy. I’m not the biggest fan of playing a second copy in the sideboard, but some players choose to do so. I feel like the minor utility gained from having a second copy in the main is not worth the drawback of eating up one of your precious sideboard slots. But that is up for debate. Some of the top performing Elves players choose to run a 2nd copy in the board. "

[Dice_Box]

I run two main. It's just too good when you have 4 Quirion Rangers in play.

[danyul]

Ooh that description (and likely the entire primer) needs to be updated!

Essentially, the Dryad Arbor counts as 2 mana with a Gaea's Cradle out and 2+(you can hit crazy numbers!) mana with Quirion Ranger/Wirewood Symbiote out.

We play a second copy to ensure that we can always grab one (in case the first dies or you get the first with an early GSZ and are later able to freely fetchland into another) and because having 2 on the board makes for double the pleasure, double the fun. If you can ever afford to leave a fetch up (and in this deck, you often can) you can set up your next turn very nicely by EOT fetching for that 2nd Dryad Arbor. Especially when we have so many Cradles flying off of the top of our decks.

And when Glimpsing, you can use Wirewood Symbiote + Dryad Arbor to bounce and replay another 1cmc elf to "rebuy" a dude+Glimpse draw incase you start to brick mid-combo. The more Symbiotes, the better. And then of course there is the pleasant and sometimes ridiculous interaction between Quirion Ranger + Dryad Arbor (for block/bouncing or making extra mana) or even Wirewood Symbiote + Quirion Ranger + Dryad Arbor, boucing Quirion Ranger to use its ability twice in a single turn!

Playing the second copy simply means we can do all these things more often.

Once you get enough games under your belt, you will begin to see all the ridiculous applications of this simple little land. I'm sure there are plenty more that I simply cannot remember right now.

[Absolutflipz]

It's worth noting that the new "Inspired" mechanic in BotG lines up very well with the abilities of this deck.

Come on sweet, 1-2cc green inspired Elf.

Also, to the current deck: I've started running a Hornet Queen main over 1 Hoof as a great answer to Delver variants as well as matching up 'well' against Emrakul and Griselbrand. Not sure if it's better than 2x Hoof, but I think it's a reasonable option.

[yaWgnorW]

It's worth noting that the new "Inspired" mechanic in BotG lines up very well with the abilities of this deck.

Come on sweet, 1-2cc green inspired Elf.

Also, to the current deck: I've started running a Hornet Queen main over 1 Hoof as a great answer to Delver variants as well as matching up 'well' against Emrakul and Griselbrand. Not sure if it's better than 2x Hoof, but I think it's a reasonable option.

Doesn't this fall into the argument that if you resolve NO or Hoof you just win anyway? I see the point that if we have a low count on our elves and NO goes then Hoof likely does nothing major; but we have Prog boarded for such a case. Don't get me wrong I see the point, I'd just like to know how its working for you.

[HammafistRoob]

Danyul, could I bug you for your list? Mine is a tad dated with only 3 NO main and 19 lands. Was trying to figure out how to squeeze another NO and Arbor without hurting to much of the Glimpse combo consistency.

[Yanley]

In theory, Hornet Queen may be a good card against delver decks but Craterhoof Behemoth does the job better by making you win on the spot in most circumstances. It might be good when facing against SnT since it can profitably win against Emrakul or Griselbrand but I am not certain about this...