[Deck] Jund

[razvan]

The deck is fine vs. combo. The deck is fine vs. anything except burn, that’s the point.

Sometimes those combo decks go crazy and there is nothing you can do. You will lose to combo, and sometimes you will lose 0-2 to combo. Again, like many have said, you have to accept the random variance in the game to beat you.

However, we have more tools than most decks. I mean, my list runs 3 Hymns and 3 Thoughtseizes, and I have seen people run more. We also run 3-4 Liliana, and our sideboard is 2-3 REBs, more discard, Surgical Extractions and other graveyard hate, Chains of Mephistopheles for some, as well as random other crap that people think of putting. Not to mention Golgari Charm, which are amazing on 2/3 modes vs. combo.

We can run up to 1/3rd of our deck as relevant hate against Combo. The rest is just beaters, not hate-bears, which is a problem, but it’s not an insurmountable problem. They need to deal with our Dark Confidants or we will bury them. We can wasteland them as well, and just use random effects to slow them down until a BBE flips a Tarmogoyf and we win next turn.

I myself have thought about adding white for Stoneforge Mystic… I absolutely LOVE that card… or blue, for Flusterstorm and Swan Song, both amazing cards incidentally.

The problem with both plans, less with white than with blue, is the fact that we make our match-ups worse against Delvers, and as I mentioned, it’s already frightening for some reason. The deck is at a delicate balance right now. Not to mention that neither plan is a solution to TNN.

[nedleeds]

I mean, as a non-blue deck not using hatebears, you're already at that disadvantage. You're playing P. Fires because it does better against fair decks. If you wanted to do better against Combo, play Junk and run Thalia, Teeg, Canonist, and discard.

Agree with Matt here. Null Rod is another nice cross cutting card for Jund. Nobody is bringing in artifact removal against Jund and it cuts off 10-12 mana sources vs. storm, it wrecks equipment (especially since Jund has many tools to deal with a 0 CMC germ), it's good vs. Miracles which is a rather pedestrian deck without top, maybe even vs. death and taxes, should you hit Affinity it's a free win with Null Rod.

[sawatarix]

I attended the local tournament tonight and went 20 which is not awesome at all but had a lot of fun with my friends here.

One thing to notice about the combomu:
I did not put the underground sea in the maindeck for swansong or flusterstorm.
Instead i ran a lot of pyroblasts,extra copies of thoughtseize and surgical extraction.
I got paired against my good friend Lemnear who played TES tonight.The next section will maybe give a little insight why underground sea and countermagic would be good.
Let's dive in:

I won the die roll
G1 i kept:
Thoughtseize Tarmogoyf Tarmogoyf Badlands Verdant Catacombs liliana of the Veil Lightning Bolt

I seize him and see: LED Dark Ritual Brainstorm Burning Wish Underground Sea Chrome Mox Gemstone Mine.
I take the LED and pass.
He plays Usea and passes back.
I draw Liliana ,lay down Goyf and pass. He brainstorms at eot and drops the mine next to his Usea.After another Brainstorm he passes.
I draw another Goyf and attack for 4 and land the second goyf to increase the clock.
Lemnear untaps,plays Lotus Petal Rite of Flame Dark Ritual Infernal Tutor (Rof) Rof Rof burning Wish past in Flames into all Rites and finally Tutor for Wish. For Tendrils.

G2 Sideboarding: took out all punishing fires,decay and bolts and 2 Elves for 2 extractions,2 duress 4 Pyroblasts.

I keep this one:
Thoughtseize Dark Confidant verdant Catacomb Grove of the Burnwillows Hymn to tourach Hymn to tourach Bloodbraid Elf.
I start with seize an look at:
Burning Wish infernal Tutor Dark Ritual Ponder LED usea Gemstone Mine.
I pick the Led.
He layd Usea,ponders and passes.
I drop Bob.
He makes 132 Goblins,strips my entire hand with theraphys and shoot me dead with 39 Grapeshots.

Are underground seas and Flusterstorms still not needed?




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[nedleeds]

Your mana sucked and you couldn't cast Hymn. Maybe you should have kept DRSs in and taken Bloodbraid out.

[anakyn]

Are underground seas and Flusterstorms still not needed?

Yep, I think so.
You lost against one of Jund's worst matchups, I guess it's life when playing a deck focused on beating fair decks.

Keeping all Shamans in would probably have been better than splashing for blue.
I really don't understand why you benched the Shamans and kept the Elves.

[sawatarix]

I kept all shamans in,just cut 2 bloodbraid elves.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[anakyn]

I kept all shamans in,just cut 2 bloodbraid elves.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Sorry, I misread.


EDIT

Even if you wanted to beat TES so hard, I still don't understand why you should choose the U.Sea + Flusterstorm route instead of just using a couple of Mindbreak Traps, which serve the same purpose but don't require an akward blue splash.

[Lemnear]

I keep this one:
Thoughtseize Dark Confidant verdant Catacomb Grove of the Burnwillows Hymn to tourach Hymn to tourach Bloodbraid Elf.
I start with seize an look at:
Burning Wish infernal Tutor Dark Ritual Ponder Chrome Mox usea Gemstone Mine.
I pick the Dark Ritual
He layd Usea,ponders and passes.
I drop Bob.
He makes 132 Goblins,strips my entire hand with theraphys and shoot me dead with 39 Grapeshots.

Fixed :)

Edit: Still not my record for Goblins though :/

Your mana sucked and you couldn't cast Hymn. Maybe you should have kept DRSs in and taken Bloodbraid out.

Out of curiosity: Does that mean you would have mulled the hand? I doubt it.

[LEH]

There is absolutely no reason to put in Underground Seas and counterspells. Firstly, it opens us up to Wasteland so much more than our manabase does currently, it essentially forces us to drop Punishing Grove package (weakening us up to our current strong MUs) and forces us to drop Bloodbraid Elf to stop terrible Cascades. Furthermore, the main counters we'd need to combat Combo are heavily blue focused Force of Will and Daze, dropping cards we need in order to play situational counter magic when we already play the best discard spells in the game is pointless and will only weaken the decks strengths. Jund is king of fair decks but is weak against Combo, that's just the nature of the game. On the whole, Jund beats: Aggro, Control and other Midrange decks the only branch it loses to is Combo, that's actually one of the most impressive win cycles in Legacy. No deck is favorable against all archetypes.

[Avez]

The deck is fine vs. combo. The deck is fine vs. anything except burn, that’s the point.

I need some advice against Burn. I'm attending a local 30-40 people GPT Paris tournament next sunday and I've scouted that there are 2-3 Burn-players in the tournament. Otherwise the meta seems to filled with fair decks, 2 manaless dredges and only few combo decks. What is the best sideboard card against Burn? Zuran Orb? Or should I just ignore the Burn-decks and hope I don't pair against them...

My decklist

[anakyn]

I need some advice against Burn.

Honestly, it's the same advice I'd give to anyone asking for help in a combo-infested meta: play another deck.

And if you really wanna play Jund, maybe Ooze is the best answer to Burn. Just remember to play it when they are tapped out, or if you have other 2 green mana open ;)

[sawatarix]

Kitchen finks comes to mind, not tested yet.




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[aluisiocsantos]

Kitchen Finks is widely used in Modern jund due to burn decks. Worth trying if the UR decks keep popping up. We insta-lose to Price of progress.

[razvan]

Burn is a problem. I wouldn't bother with it, however. You need all your sideboard cards to beat real match-ups, and you still cannot fit everything in. Bringing something specific against burn is a bad idea.

[sdematt]

Man, I played this deck last night for reals against Death and Taxes, and man, this manabase with Grove can sometimes be atrocious for casting BB spells. Especially when under no DRS, WAsteland, and Port conditions :P

-Matt

[Vicar in a tutu]

Man, I played this deck last night for reals against Death and Taxes, and man, this manabase with Grove can sometimes be atrocious for casting BB spells. Especially when under no DRS, WAsteland, and Port conditions :P

-Matt

That is the main reason I don't use Punishing Fire. That and the fact that I already hate losing to Rest in Peace. You would think that Abrupt Decay (and Golgari Charm in the side) is enough to fight RIP, but I keep running into it. If I can't deal with it, I simply lose. But back to the main point, nothing is worse than having Liliana dead in your hand because you have too many lands in the deck that doesn't tap for black.

[sawatarix]

I included a singleton Urborg,Tomb of Yagamoth in the maindeck to make a rainbowland of Grove and Wastelands.
It has been good so far .


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[nedleeds]

Out of curiosity: Does that mean you would have mulled the hand? I doubt it.

No. Not with a thoughtseize. The math on drawing a black source on the back swing is enough to give it a go.

[Gaius Darkfire]

I went 4-1 with Punishing Jund today in a local event. Lost round 1 to dredge, then beat Lands, Imperial Painter, UR Delver, and Enchantress. This got my to 2nd place and in top 8, then lost in the quarterfinals to Affinity. There were two highlights for me. First was when the Painter player had Blood Moon in play and played Painter, I went EOT REB on the Blood Moon, then Decay on Painter, and went to win (I had never considered boarding those in for the matchup but it was fantastic). The other was game 1 against enchantress, I won the die roll and went fetch-> Deathrite, turn 2 Hymn, turn 3 Hymn Hymn (leaving 1 card in hand and 1 land), turn 4 Goyf Goyf. It wasn't fair and felt damn good.

[pjetr0]

Hi guys, Im playing Jund nearly 1 year and I must say I love this deck. But I have a serious issue with combo decks, namely TES. From my experience, this deck is quite unbeatable. They have brainstorms, that is fine, but they have also silence and orims chant what makes discard completely useless. These spells give them plenty of time to set up all they need. Do you have some advice or strategy how to fight them? I missed top 8 yesterday because of this (43 players, 4-2), one month before I lost in quarterfinals against this deck. I do not want to switch deck because of this matchup, but on the other hand, loosing against storm decks really sucks. Beside this, it is very common that at least 1 storm deck fit the top 8 every time in my meta. My deck list:

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire

4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard:
3 Pyroblast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Choke

The deck performs pretty well, 2 basic swamps are excellent against meta full of UWR. Against fair decks, the deck is usually super good. Against unfair decks, everything depends on the type of combo you are fighting against (from my experience TES is the worst, too many goblins during 1st or 2nd turn).

Pjetr0