What is the core of nic-fit. And what build are you on currently. I've lurked the threads for a while but never got around to building it.Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Regarding my GBW Walker-List on Page 326 I have to disagree here. The deck is already pretty light on removal. In fact my list contains 3 Deed. That's it. Being the control deck we need to have more ways to interact with opposing permanents. Another point: The green Walkers are better at generating tokens, than Elspeth. Sorin gets the job done, too. Overall Vraska's second ability is exactly what my list wants.
I also have to disagree with humility maindeck. In fact I started my list with a MD-humility but it soon got cut. Humility shines in some matchups but is pretty useless against ohters. Overall, we are still NicFit and therefore Explorer and GSZ are set. Because of that, I don't see why we shouldn't use GSZ for full value and play the best green creatures in a sort-of toolobx. Humility shuts off that engine. That's why I think it belongs to the sb.
The only actual core cards of Nic Fit that every current version plays are 4 Veteran Explorer, 4 Cabal Therapy, a few Pernicious Deeds and Eternal Witness and Thragtusk. For most versions you can also add GSZ to the core but BUG Pod doesn't play it.
The other cards can vary but they are functionally similar to work in the specific deck. The core (Explorer, Therapy, Deed, Witness, Thragtusk) combined with a variety of value cards, synergies, value engines, removal and other disruption. Scapewish is a bit different in that regard because of the Combo Finish and the higher mana count.
Hi,
I'm mainly a blue deck player, but I've been thinking about picking up GBW Nic Fit as a side project - In a perfect world, maybe I'd have preferred BUG or the Scapeshift/Valakut version, but I don't really have the duals for those colours, so personally I'd stick to GBW, probably. Since Eternal Witness and Sun Titan are already very playable in Nic Fit, I thought about adding Knight of the reliquary and the Depths/Stage combo, since it seemed like it would slot in pretty easily, kinda like the Natural Order/Progenitus package in the old NO RUG/Bant lists, and be easily salvageable to boot.
Here's a possible decklist:
23 Lands
1 dark depts
1 thespian's stage
2 wasteland
1 karakas
2 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
3 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
8 fetch
22 creatures
4 GSZ
4 veteran explorer
1 deathrite shaman
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 quirion ranger
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
2 eternal witness
3 knight of the reliquary
1 fierce empath
1 thrun/sigarda/extra fierce empath target
1 sun titan
15 other spells
4 cabal therapy
3 aprupt decay
2 vindicate
2 pernicious deed
2 liliana
2 top
sideboard (tentative)
1 teeg
2 canonist
3 duress
1 liliana
2 zealous persecution
2 extirpate
2 nihil spellbomb
1 mindbreak trap
1 pithing needle
The Wastelands are there mainly to protect the combo from other people's wastelands, although potentially manascrewing an opponent with Wasteland/Vindicate seems sweet, too. Sylvan Safekeeper is there to protect the combo, and Quirion Ranger (could also be Scryb Ranger, don't think it matters too much in this deck) can shave a turn off it. The rest is pretty standard stuff, I think.
Do you have experience with Dark Depths in Nic Fit? What are your feelings about it? Did I overlook anything obvious (apart from Tilling Treefolk)?
Add more land.
One reason why BUG Pod, Scapewish and Punishing Fire are successful is because they don't offer any good targets for Abrupt Decay or Swords to Plowshares.
That is why KotR is not good in Nic Fit. Against Combo it doesn't help much and against all other decks it will just get killed. That is why all decks that place in tournaments play stuff like Huntmaster or Baleful Strix, Eternal Witness, Thragtusk and Titans. You play a control deck without any card draw so your value has to come from creatures.
If you want to play GBW a rock-style control deck is imo the best approach. Look into things like Lingering Souls or Academy Rector and win grindy games. Maybe run a few Thoughtseizes or Inquisitions maindeck, maybe a 3rd Liliana, probably a 3rd Deed. I would always recommend a 3rd Top.
There is a combo finish with Archangel of Thune / Spike Feeder but I would not recommend it.
Also at least one Sigarda is mandatory in any white list, she is by far the best reason to play with white cards.
Thanks for your answer. Stubborn enough that I might try it anyways, but I can definitely see your point.
Regards.
Add more land.
I think if I were theoretically trying to play dark depths, stage combo, that I would be in BUG for like intuition or gifts with like loam and a waste and stuff.
I would actually recommend a Junk/Bant Maverick shell as opposed to Junk/BUG Nic Fit for Stage Depths. Actually played against a list with Knights, Living Wishes, and Loams and lost due to the lack of Needles in the board.Hi,
I'm mainly a blue deck player, but I've been thinking about picking up GBW Nic Fit as a side project - In a perfect world, maybe I'd have preferred BUG or the Scapeshift/Valakut version, but I don't really have the duals for those colours, so personally I'd stick to GBW, probably. Since Eternal Witness and Sun Titan are already very playable in Nic Fit, I thought about adding Knight of the reliquary and the Depths/Stage combo, since it seemed like it would slot in pretty easily, kinda like the Natural Order/Progenitus package in the old NO RUG/Bant lists, and be easily salvageable to boot.
Here's a possible decklist:
23 Lands
1 dark depts
1 thespian's stage
2 wasteland
1 karakas
2 forest
2 swamp
1 plains
3 bayou
1 savannah
1 scrubland
8 fetch
22 creatures
4 GSZ
4 veteran explorer
1 deathrite shaman
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 quirion ranger
1 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
2 eternal witness
3 knight of the reliquary
1 fierce empath
1 thrun/sigarda/extra fierce empath target
1 sun titan
15 other spells
4 cabal therapy
3 aprupt decay
2 vindicate
2 pernicious deed
2 liliana
2 top
sideboard (tentative)
1 teeg
2 canonist
3 duress
1 liliana
2 zealous persecution
2 extirpate
2 nihil spellbomb
1 mindbreak trap
1 pithing needle
The Wastelands are there mainly to protect the combo from other people's wastelands, although potentially manascrewing an opponent with Wasteland/Vindicate seems sweet, too. Sylvan Safekeeper is there to protect the combo, and Quirion Ranger (could also be Scryb Ranger, don't think it matters too much in this deck) can shave a turn off it. The rest is pretty standard stuff, I think.
Do you have experience with Dark Depths in Nic Fit? What are your feelings about it? Did I overlook anything obvious (apart from Tilling Treefolk
I am interested in reading some discussions of BUG pod, are those contained within this thread or should I look elsewhere. I keep seeing it mentioned in this Nic Fit thread.
I still feel like Humility is worth it and here is why: It does shut off some GSZ creatures but in my build I feel like it's not that big of a deal. When humility hits the board, I've hopefully already "used" some of my GSZ creatures. I rely much more on my planeswalkers, elspeth, garruk, sorin and also lingering souls. Humility barley affects that while it makes your opponents creature miserable. I will gladly have humility in play against any tribe deck such as merfolk, goblin, elves. It's also decent against Maverick and D&t (if you manage to destroy Jitte which is important obv.) Any emrakul, griselbrand deck etc also have problems with this card. Maybe it's even decent against delver decks, but probably too slow. We make much more creatures than all these decks with PWs and Lingering souls. And for what it's worth, it does serve as a removal kind of..
These reasons are enough for me to have the card in the maindeck. I actually don't know any decks where it's completley dead (except for storm ofc). Also, my deck might be more humility-friendly than yours.
As for removal, I'm playing 3 deed 2 pulse 2 StP. Not completley sold on this yet, as I have to play test more
How come you're not running Nether Void in your SB? Budget reasons?
It has been discussed a lot the last ten pages or so. I post a short "report" of my weekly event with it. Gtf finished 10th recently at an open as well. If you have any questions, feel free to ask
Yeah ... Nic Fit has several variations including Explorer Pod (typically BUG or Junk) and ScapeWish.
Good thing BUG Pod is more recent, so you won't have to dig too much back.
I've just missed top 8 in the last round of a large event (145 players) with punishing Nic Fit. I finished 5-1-2.
I'll post my list and a report when I have time, but thank you Tao: my list was inspired a lot in your list (I don't have time to playtest, so I have to netlist...)
Sorry for the late reply, but Tao pretty much answered your first question perfectly.
The build I'm on right now is pretty much classic BG Nic Fit with a "splash" of U for Jace 2.0 and Brainstorm. This probably weakens manabase, but I hate having extra Tops once I've got one out, especially during a crucial top deck moment.
My current list can be found in my sig (though give me a few minutes to update it).
Played a GP-Trial yesterday and got the byes with Punishing Fit.
Matchups Swiss:
1:2 vs Team America
2:0 vs Oops all Spells
1:2 vs Elves
2:0 vs Elves
2:1 vs Burn
Luckily enough Top 8, but my opponents always got the start-advantage in the next games.
Quarterfinals:
2:1 vs Team America (same Player of round 1, who was first after swiss)
Semifinals:
2:1 vs Sneak Show
Finals:
2:0 vs UWR Delver
So totally not the best matches at all, but sometimes you also need a right amount of luck to go ahead. Also nice that another Nic Fit player landed top 4 with his BUG-Pod List.
Some Notes:
Maindeck Deathrite Shaman saved my ass against Oops all Spells, because g1 he can't get all his combo pieces fast enough i found time to disrupt him. It was also an advantage against burn, which is a horrible matchup if you can't get some extra lifepoints. I also played a 2nd copy in my sideboard.
Surgical Extraction was also good enough, won me Game 2 against Oops all Spells because he starts with a turn 1 Combo Win. Extraction helped also against Sneak Show Game 2, because i opened with turn 1 discard (Sneak Attack) into Surgical Extraction.
Slaughter Games was a beast against Sneak Show. Sure it is some of the worst matchups and sometimes you can't do anything against the degenerate two cards combo, but if you survive a couple of turns with 1 mana disruption (discard, red blast, extraction, needle etc.) Slaughter Games is a huge "GG"Spell. I boarded in 13 cards against Sneak Show and got the right amount of disruption and grind it out till Slaughter Games or Extraction finished it up. Thanks to my teammate JPA who always give me some training rounds against this Matchup, if i need some hard slaps from the unfair demon and his eldrazi buddy.
Elves are also hard to beat, because they can go of turn 2 and have different ways to beat you. Like most combo matchups, it is incredible good to win the die roll. You need first turn disruption (Discard) and the next turns enough stuff to kill all the little dudes. It helped that í also played elves last year with a decent score, but as a fair deck it is hard if you can't use the different angels of attack (wasteland, removal, counter). Some Removal with 1 Mana (Innocent Blood) would help a lot, if you can't rip the theirs hand apart.
Special thanks to Tao who inspired me with his Primer to play Punishing Fit the last months.
TEAM MtG Berlin
I think innocent blood would be a fine card for us to be playing right now
I only played against Elves! once before my hiatus, but it wasn't exactly a hard matchup from what I could tell (at least two out of three games: can't remember which games I won, just the match).
First, the trick against any mono-color or duo-color deck is to not pull the Cabal Explorer trigger too soon: they more than likely have enough basics so that our signature ramp engine will just not work as well. Therapy first, then flash it back when it's in your favor
Second, decks that tend to swarm the field with a ton of creatures are best handled with sweepers: no shit, right? Well, I'm saying this because I was running 2 Damnation and I believe 4 Deed when I played Elves!, and it really helped survivability against this particular list.
Third, the only positive thing about slow combo for Nic Fit is that they trade consistency for resilience: in other words, their nut hands require a ton of luck to get on turn 1 or 2. Take this opportunity to disrupt them as much as possible with Therapies and removal.
While I may question the decision, congrats on making DTB guys!
Currently playing:
Imperial Painter
One of the few Painter players in SoCal...
As I said yesterday, I lost the "win-and-in" round with punishing nic fit in a 145 players event.
My list was this:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorers
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Kalonian Hydra (I realy hate Thragtusk in this deck)
1 Primeval Titan
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fires
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Phyrexian Tower (I expected more Deathrite shamans, making the Stronghold useless, but I'll make this change back)
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Bayou (I am missing one bayou at the moment, so I played a Badlands. It didn't mattered in this tourney)
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Huntmaster of the Fells (I couldn't find a Garruk Relentless)
2 Duress (I don't have thoughtseizes)
2 Golgari Charm
2 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Pyroblast
A little report (I don't have notes, the order of the matches can be a very missremembered):
Round 1 against UWr Landstill (1-0; 1-0-0)
In the first round I played a non competitive player with a version of landstills with red for lightning bolts and Baneslayer Angels as finishers.
The first game started with me playing a top and him playing a Standstill on his second turn without a Mishra's Factory in his hand. I spinned the top over some turns finding a lot of lands. When I had like 7 or 8 lands and he had 7 cards in hand, I broke the Standstill at the end of his turn with a Punishing Fire to make him discard. He then countered some of my bombs but was still unable to find a thread, so I started pinging him with a Fire. At some point he played a Baneslayer Angel and attacked once before I could crack a Pernishious Deed to kill it. Finaly, I found Thrun and he wasn't prepared for him (he played supreme verdicts).
This game took like 35 minutes. The second one started like the first one, but this time he found a factory and I was stucked at 4 lands, so I break the Standstill with a Slaughter Game for Baneslayer Angel (was the only thread I saw the firs game). He had also some Jaces but didn't found them. He beated me for some turns with a pair of factories and I had to waste a pernicious for only one of them (I was low on lives and he played lightning bolts) he then beated me with the other one up to 2 lives when I found a witness to replay the P. Deed. Being at 2 I was a lightning bolt away of losing this game and drawing the match, but he didn't found one and just before the turns were called I found the second witness to replay the Slaughter Games on Lightning Bolts. We finished the turns without him finding the way to kill me.
Round 2 against Punishing Jund (2-0; 2-0-0)
I don't remember a lot of these games but I beated him 2-0 without any major concern (one of the games I finished at 7 lifes more or less and the other with a lot more) he only assembled the grove-punishing combo on one of the games but it was too late. I won one game with Thrun and one with a Primeval
Round 3 against Rw Goblins (2-0; 3-0-0)
I won the die to go first and begun with a Inquisition to see a slow hand with Vial, Matron, Warchief, Chieftain and Siege Gang. I took the vial and played a Top and a therapy on Warchief. He played the chieftain and beated me for 2. I flashbacked the Therapy for his Siege Gang and he played the matron, searching a Piledriver, played it and attacked with the 3 goblins. I then proceed to play the deed I was holding in my hand and clear the table (he had one or no cards in hand).
In the second game he kept a bad hand with some hate, but it ended being totaly insuficient and I was not under any risk.
Round 4 against Elves (1-2; 3-0-1)
He opened with a zenith for a dryad arbor. I hit blindly the Wyrewood Symbiote with a therapy in my first turn and saw 2 Nettle Sentinels, 1 Quirion Ranger and lands. He played the quirion and a nettle. I flashbacked the therapy with a veteran explorer for the second nettle leaving him with only a land in his hand. He used a fetchland to search for the second dryad and started beating me for 5. I had a Top and was looking for a Pernicious or a Punishing Fire using any shuffle effect I could find without any luck. I stoped his army cold with some creatures but I couldn't find any creature killer. He played a Heritage Druid and we played draw and go for some turns without me finding any answer. He finaly top decked a zenith with the mana to play it for a Craterhoof (untapping his nettle) to kill me. I should have won this game, but this is how thing go sometimes...
The second game he kept a slow hand and played a first turn pithing needle on top. I found a Punishing a Grove and a Liliana and killed every creature he played. Eventualy he fetched for a dryad and played a Natural Order. He searched though his library and seemed upset. Then looked his sideboard and finaly put a Progenitus in play frustrated (he forgot to side in the Worldspine Wurm). I made him sacrifice the progenitus with Liliana and he conceded.
The third game he kept a slow hand again. He actualy didn't played anything on the 3 first turns, but I could find any discard spell. I was killing everything he played, but wasn't prepared for the wurm and I lost.
Round 5 against Patriot (2-1; 4-0-1)
These were some unfair games. Is a very favourable match up (even more if your opponent doesn't have any answer for the Punishing fires in his sideboard).
He won the second game because I was mana screwed and he draw like 3 or 4 wastelands while he attaked me with a delver and a Stoneforge (I therapied the Batterskull) and finaly a True Name Nemesis.
Rond 6 against Team America (1-1; 4-1-1)
He won the first game that took us like 25 minutes after drawing a Tombstalker that I had no answer for. We had been draw and going for like 10 or so turns in a row without finding any thread.
I won the second one and had like 7 or 8 minutes for the last one that we were unable to finish.
Round 7 against Patriot (2-1; 5-1-1)
I don't remember a lot, but it was an unfair match again.
Round 8 against NO-Bant (1-2; 5-1-2)
I won the first game without seeing a Natural Order, so I was unprepared for it in the second game (I didn't boarded in the Slaughter Games).
The third game I had a stellar start with a blind therapy on brainstorm hitting one. He kept a one land hand with a Stoneforge, a True name nemesis a Shaman and a Thoughtseize. He played the Deathrite Shaman and I proced to play a zenith for 1, saccing the veteran explorer to hit the True Name Nemesis and with the 2 lands play a Punishing Fire on the Shaman. He was unable to find a second land and I played a Top and a second therapy on Stoneforge mystic. I saw that he draw a Rest in Peace and a another True Name Nemesis. He draw a land and played the Rip exiling the Therapy. Then I made the mistake that costed me the top 8: I used the top in my main phase I saw a Slaughter Games, a Therapy and a Green Sun's Zenith. I put the S. Games on top and the Green Sun's Zenith second. I draw with the top and played the Slaughter Games on the TNN for fear of him drawing a third one. In the next turn I played the zenith for the Thrun and he obviously fetched a Dryad with a fetch and played a Natural Order for the Progenitus that I couldn't answer in time.
If I had draw the therapy with the top and played it on TNN and then the S. Games on Natural Order I would have won that game...
I think the deck is perfect for the current metagame (it was a sea of blue tempo decks even throught I only played 3) but I never boarded in the 2 Surgical Extractions, the Sakura-Tribe Elder and the Huntmaster of the Fells, so I am thinking in swapping the 2 Surgicals and the Huntmaster for some more answers against Natural Orders/Elves decks. I am thinking in 3 options:
- Gravedigger's Cage: It is a house against NO-Bant and the like and against Dredge (there were some in the hall) but against Elves we need the Deeds to clean the board...
- Damnation: It solves NO and is very good against Elves, but it won't be of any help if they search for the Worldspine Wurm...
- Play more Slaughter Games (I am playing 2 right now): It answer NO, but Elves can win without it and it costs 4 mana...
Wich is the better option?
Last edited by Zinch; 01-19-2014 at 06:14 PM.
Nice result! I haven't tried the Punishing Fire version in a tournament yet, so I can't quite tell what the best option is.
Since my last report of winning a tournament with BUG Pod I have taken it to two more tournaments. First a 48 person tournament where I got 3rd, going undefeated in the swiss. Then I won a 42 person tournament with it today, losing one match to Jund. It seems favorable, though. I played against UWR Delver, BR Reanimator ,Miracles, something I can't quite recall, Jund and BUG Delver again in the swiss. In the top 8 I played against Miracles again, and the Affinity. Finally I opted to split top2 with a Merfolk player. I may write a report. I think that the deck is good. Most match ups seem somewhat favorable. Miracles is probably bad, though.
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