All B/R update speculation.

[DragoFireheart]

This is why I did not buy any TNN. Waiting for a possible ban so they get cheaper.

Pretty fun to troll table top players though. TNN + SoFI/Jitte is pretty obnoxious.

[Arsenal]

Jund folds to TNN because the idea of the deck is to be interactive and to pull every bit of value from its cards. When you blank out its interaction and kill about 1/3 of its deck with a single card, its plan folds. It also has the issue where it is almost always at the mercy of the topdeck to find answers. So it may have a strong match when it gets the right cards, but over a full 10+ rounds its going to fall down. Because its just not as consistent.

Exactly. Pre-TNN, Jund could lean on redundant answers (Lightning Bolt + Punishing Fire) and threats, so consistency didn't matter as much. Post-TNN, Jund now needs exact answers to the board state or it loses. This is where the consistency issue becomes glaringly apparent.

[Barook]

TNN + SoFI/Jitte is pretty obnoxious.

This

It's the main way I lose games with D&T against such decks.

Currently finished R3 of the Legacy Daily on Modo. You can bet your ass how excited I was to face the third goddamn TNN deck in a row:

- Patriot Delver (guess where my loss came from in that 2-1 - early draw into double TNN while he killed my flyers with my ground forces durdling around with StP in hand)
- some raging 12-year old playing Deathblade who flamed me the entire game. Losses sponsored by a Jitte-wielding TNN.
- 2-1 vs Esperblade - guess where my loss came from: TNN + Jitte

TNN really gets me salty. It's just such a dumb card.

[JanoschEausH]

When comes the next announcement? Someone said it will be January 27th, is this true?

[DragoFireheart]

- some raging 12-year old playing Deathblade who flamed me the entire game. Losses sponsored by a Jitte-wielding TNN.

I can imagine the kid mashing the keyboard while crying to his mom for more hot pockets.

[Zombie]

I have a hard time understanding how anyone ever thought the card was okay from a gameplay flow standpoint*. I mean, it's a fucking Progenitus with no risk. NO at least needs commitment mana-wise, just trying to cast it is a sacrifice in board position and it is harder to play in heavy-blue decks, and is a spell so all the absurdly good anti-spell counters work against it.
TNN, you can just throw around and presto. Even the goddamn powerup mechanic via SFM is pure CA.

* I actually know how - nobody ever gave it a single thought, maybe aside from 4 player EDH fests with million/million dorks powered to the table by Vintage manabases as standard.

[Higgs]

TNN really gets me salty. It's just such a dumb card.

I'm with you buddy.

Also Brainstorm is fine, it enables diversity in strategies. Without it Legacy goes back to the stone age. To increase diversity in colors however, I think Wizards should focus on designing stronger color specific synergies and cards like Green Sun's zenith which increase consistency in other colors.

[Dice_Box]

Brainstorm is going nowhere. They just gave DnT a new hate bear to use. Why then remove the card that it was made to hate without at lest testing the waters?

[Barsoom]

When comes the next announcement? Someone said it will be January 27th, is this true?

Yes. It's the Monday before the prerelease of the next expansion.

[jamis]

I have a hard time understanding how anyone ever thought the card was okay from a gameplay flow standpoint*. I mean, it's a fucking Progenitus with no risk. NO at least needs commitment mana-wise, just trying to cast it is a sacrifice in board position and it is harder to play in heavy-blue decks, and is a spell so all the absurdly good anti-spell counters work against it.
TNN, you can just throw around and presto. Even the goddamn powerup mechanic via SFM is pure CA.

* I actually know how - nobody ever gave it a single thought, maybe aside from 4 player EDH fests with million/million dorks powered to the table by Vintage manabases as standard.

I've actually been liking the flavor of TNN a lot more recently. Its like the ultimate Invisible Stalker, but for the extra U, you get 2 power and "can't be damaged", kind of like an Invisible Stalker/Fog Bank love-child. The card's really good, but considering the next most playable variant is what, Blighted Agent? Shadowmage Infiltrator? No one plays these cards. I think if you were wanting some form of U unblockable to be represented in the format, TNN had to do everything that it does.

[DragoFireheart]

I think if you were wanting some form of U unblockable to be represented in the format, TNN had to do everything that it does.

Bullshit. They could have just taken Invisible Stalker, gave it 2 more power, and make the mana cost UUU. Powerful, but difficult to splash and there's more removal that could impact it AND it couldn't just chump block everything in the format. None of these 4-color Deathblade horseshit with mini-Progenitus carrying a Jitte and turning sideways and face-smashing until you died.

The Protection from Player went too far.

[Arsenal]

I've actually been liking the flavor of TNN a lot more recently. Its like the ultimate Invisible Stalker, but for the extra U, you get 2 power and "can't be damaged", kind of like an Invisible Stalker/Fog Bank love-child. The card's really good, but considering the next most playable variant is what, Blighted Agent? Shadowmage Infiltrator? No one plays these cards. I think if you were wanting some form of U unblockable to be represented in the format, TNN had to do everything that it does.

Making the protection-from-player a trigger instead of a static ability would've made all the difference. Still would've been highly played, but not nearly as uninteractive and board dominant as it currently is.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I love the card but I understand the frustration of playing against it. That's why I am worried about Monday. That and the disappearance of several non-blue decks that only until recently held a respectable place in the format. Right now I probably feel the same as a SotF player right before it's banning. This has me all goosebumpy and my stomach in knots. I love this card but it is killing things that probably shouldn't die.

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[Dice_Box]

We interrupt this pissing match for an important announcement: https://mobile.twitter.com/TrickMTG/..._name=TrickMTG

[Arsenal]

I've been playing with nothing but UW Stoneblade since November 1st, but would LOVE to see TNN get the axe. I play with him only to not lose (a lot) to other decks that play with him. I'd love to see him go and have more non-blue decks have a fighting chance again (D&T is literally the only non-blue, non-combo deck in the top tier despite TNN).

[Barook]

I'd love to see him go and have more non-blue decks have a fighting chance again (D&T is literally the only non-blue, non-combo deck in the top tier despite TNN).

While I would really love to see TNN gone asap, I seriously doubt they're going to ban it anytime soon, simply as a business decision. The Commander 2013 boxes still sell and the TNN precon is the main reason. Plus, it would send a bad signal for future Commander deck sales.

D&T is the only deck in that category since it can use its flyers and shenanigans to realistically race TNN.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

It was said that they were going to do something about the lopsided sales they have been noticing with the most current iteration of commander, though. It's not like they haven't made their sales on the grixis box, meanwhile the other 4 sit there. I know the Esper and bant get theirs to a point and will get decent sales either way but naya and the other wont. That may be regardless of TNN, though. They are pretty terrible.

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[Barook]

It was said that they were going to do something about the lopsided sales they have been noticing with the most current iteration of commander, though.

Future editions don't solve the current problem, though. And even then, they can always claim that it was another "mistake".

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I simply meant that they could ban TNN in legacy to stop the bleeding on lopsided sales of commander 2013. I wasn't eluding to a future commander set. They once claimed that tendrils was a mistake and while it had its own hay day, it's become an acceptable addition to the legacy metagame.

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[Arsenal]

I think they actually said the Storm mechanic was a mistake, not Tendrils of Agony (which just so happens to have the Storm mechanic on it). This is curious, as this admission of making the Storm mistake came years before Flusterstorm was printed. I like Flusterstorm a lot, don't get me wrong, but it just goes to show that Wizards makes up whatever reason/excuse that's convienient for them at the time, then proceeds on like nothing ever happened.