I don't think that comparison is really valid. DRS lategame often represents a 5-8 turn clock on his own (since the bins should have plenty of instant/sorcery by then), but an extra vial needs plenty of creatures in hand and mutavaults on board so you're using all of your mana each turn, both actual from land and virtual from the vials. Vials are awesome for rebuilding after a wipe, but only if we have the creatures in hand to rebuild with, and right now without the CA we're currently discussing, we won't have that CA or card quality. Land is definitely more useless than vial here, so if I ran Research or the looters I'd definitely prefer getting rid of land over the vial. Oh yeah, Research also has that classic trick of casting it in response to targeted removal and sac'ing the thing that was going to die anyway. I'm starting to like Research quite a lot, the more I think about it. Going to have to test it next time.Originally Posted by Windmill
The counter example is fine, but would this work on a mass scale in the current meta? Note that this is pre-DnT. I would not take that list to a DnT meta. In fact, I think DnT is the superior vial deck and can abuse it far more than us.
Burn was a DTB once. Doesn't mean I would take it to a 200+ person event.
Of course Saito's deck isn't the correct deck for this metagame. It was 2010. Cards like True-name Nemesis, Swan Song, even Master of the Pearl Trident, didn't exist yet. Saito's win at this specific tournament was exactly what started people believing that Merfolk was actually a competitive deck. I only included this here due to your incredulity that any splash in a Merfolk deck would ever work. It did, clearly. And there's really no good reason to suggest it can't again.
As for Death and Taxes, I'm not really sure that's a good choice as a superior deck. It has very, very real problems with both True-name Nemesis and with a lot of the cards that people have been using to hit True-name Nemesis, most directly stuff like Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution.
Why not play X draw spells such as mind spring? If flooded it draws many cards and can be used for a tempo boost as early as turn 2 or 3.
That sounds good, but we would probably at most draw 2 cards from mind spring unfortunately.
Saito had a very successful UB merfolk deck.
But why go two colors for a vial deck when I can go one color and get SFM and Karakas?
When I think of "the" anti-blue deck, I used to think Merfolk. But things have changed and splashing a color isn't going to fix that.
SFM is too mana intensive for a 20 land deck. And it slows the overall gameplan of merfolk, which is to race race and race.
BOB allows you to overload the board state very quickly by drawing 2 cards each turn.
I actually meant playing DnT over Merfolk.
I believe I answered that question for you. Death and Taxes has issues with True-Name Nemesis and with a lot of the cards that many decks are playing to deal with TNN, whereas Merfolk is good at both ignoring the opponent's TNN and is strong against almost all of the cards that are being played to deal with TNN (Golgari Charm, Zealous Persecution, edict effects), while also being able to play TNN itself. I would argue that having a slightly less stable mana base is more forgivable in a deck with Aether Vial than in any other deck, so I'm not sure why you're so in favor of sticking to just one color in a Vial deck. The reason why you would go to a second color is to get an answer that you didn't have in the first color, same as any other deck in the history of the game.
If you want to play Death and Taxes, go play Death and Taxes. This forum is for the discussion of Merfolk.
Here is the deal. I have one deck. It is Merfolk. I could play D&T. But I play Merfolk. So... as long as it is moderately competitive (even if it isn't a DTB right now) I'm going to play it. That is why I'm here in the Merfolk thread
I'm willing to splash IF it is worth it. It just feels that if we're going to splash, we might as well just play brainstorm instead and just use fetches instead of Bob. Card disadvantage in my personal opinion is the biggest weakness of this deck, which seems really wrong, as Merfolk is mono-u
Bob seems kind of slow tbh.
Bob fits the curve and is a removal magnet to keep your lords aliveHere is the deal. I have one deck. It is Merfolk. I could play D&T. But I play Merfolk. So... as long as it is moderately competitive (even if it isn't a DTB right now) I'm going to play it. That is why I'm here in the Merfolk thread
I'm willing to splash IF it is worth it. It just feels that if we're going to splash, we might as well just play brainstorm instead and just use fetches instead of Bob. Card disadvantage in my personal opinion is the biggest weakness of this deck, which seems really wrong, as Merfolk is mono-u
Bob seems kind of slow tbh.
He is... but here is what I'm thinking.
T1, we drop cursecatcher.
We drop bob T2. Our cursecatcher is still just a 1. It attacks for 1, if it even can.
T3. We can drop a lord, but we can attack for what, maximum of 2? Because unless it is combo, Bob is going to be blocked.
We can't really attack with any oomph until T4. By then we've gotten 2 cards, if he hasn't been removed.
Now, if we'd been playing our Lords instead with brainstorm...
T1: Cursecatcher.
T2: We drop Lord. We attack with our cursecatcher for 2.
T3: We drop Lord. We attack with unblockable lord and cursecatcher for 6.
T4: In hand we've got a useless land and a vial we unfortunately drew. We brainstorm them away, and get 2 good cards instead. We find a lord. Drop it, attack for 12 unblockable. Lethal.
A lord will probably get removed: but I'd rather be applying pressure and get virtual card advantage later with brainstorm at instant speed. Brainstorm would also help us muligan less.
Like, does this make sense? I just feel that it would be so much better than playing a conditional Bob that slows us down.
You are playing it wrong.
You do not drop bob when you still have a handful of cards.
You do it when you are running low on cards and need more business.
Ah, I see :) that makes sense. So you would rather Bob than brainstorm for doing that and rebuilding fast?
Correct. With brainstorm for me to refill my hand, I would need to run fetchlands and then have lands in my hand to get rid of cards for more business. But with Bob, I can get a steady flow of cards.
Black also helps us with elves and gives us removal.
How many lands/what types do we need to splash for black? I'm just trying to think if I could borrow the additional cards I'd need in time for March. Sigh, the blood moon dude in our meta would have a field day if I switched mana bases
EDIT: How about this:
4 Wasteland/Mutavault (your choice)
2 U/B Lands
5 Fetches
9 Islands
That means we're only 3 less islands than before. So against blood moon, it isn't good, but it isn't impossible, especially if we get to go T1/fetch/island.
Why would a vial deck worry about bloodmoon.How many lands/what types do we need to splash for black? I'm just trying to think if I could borrow the additional cards I'd need in time for March. Sigh, the blood moon dude in our meta would have a field day if I switched mana bases
EDIT: How about this:
4 Wasteland/Mutavault (your choice)
2 U/B Lands
5 Fetches
9 Islands
That means we're only 3 less islands than before. So against blood moon, it isn't good, but it isn't impossible, especially if we get to go T1/fetch/island.
From what I had before, I ran like 6-8 cards in the Sideboard. 3 bobs in the main in place of standstills
my blue count was 4 underground sea, 4 fetches. 4 wasteland, 3 mutavault, 5 islands.
This suffices to prevent you from being wasted and will still give you game against bloodmoon
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
2 Island
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Cursecatcher
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Merrow Reejerey
3 Dark Confidant
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 AEther Vial
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Smother
2 Misdirection
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 Tidebinder Mage
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Smother
SB: 1 Go for the Throat
Interesting list. Test it for us?
Engineered Plague works well against Elves and occasional goblins, BUT it means we don't get to hit D&D, a bad match up for us. Why not Toxic Deluge to be more flexible, even if not as potent?
Also, I really think that TNN is good for the deck instead of Reejery.
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