All B/R update speculation.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I think I'd buy back LEDs and USeas if they'd unban Mind's Desire...

[DragoFireheart]

I want to see the following unbanned Feb 3rd:

Bazaar of Baghdad
Black Vise
Earthcraft
Frantic Search
Goblin Recruiter
Gush
Hermit Druid
Mana Drain
Mental Misstep
Mind Twist
Mishra's Workshop
Skullclamp
Oath of Druids
Survival of the Fittest
Worldgorger Dragon


I then want to watch like a mad scientist at what the results would be.

[testing32]

Seriously?

I think the meta could handle it. Might have to stop running 4 bolts and 4 plows main though. Which would be a good thing.

[DragoFireheart]

I think the meta could handle it. Might have to stop running 4 bolts and 4 plows main though. Which would be a good thing.

Those are some good drugs you are on what kind? And are you sharing cause DAMN!

[testing32]

Those are some good drugs you are on what kind? And are you sharing cause DAMN!

Lets take a look at the most recent SCG top 8. First, lands won. The esper deck that got top 4 ran 3 FoW, 1 pierce, 2 lil and 2 thoughtseize. No respect at all for combo. Every deck is slanted to beating fair decks right now. Want to make TNN worse? Make combo better.

[Lemnear]

I think the meta could handle it. Might have to stop running 4 bolts and 4 plows main though. Which would be a good thing.

Handing Bryant and me Mind's Desire sounds sure like a good idea...

[DragoFireheart]

Lets take a look at the most recent SCG top 8. First, lands won. The esper deck that got top 4 ran 3 FoW, 1 pierce, 2 lil and 2 thoughtseize. No respect at all for combo. Every deck is slanted to beating fair decks right now. Want to make TNN worse? Make combo better.

But TNN is good because it beats the fair decks which lets the TNN player devote their entire sideboard to Combo.

Handing Bryant and me Mind's Desire sounds sure like a good idea...

I wonder if Byrant could control himself.

[Lemnear]

But TNN is good because it beats the fair decks which lets the TNN player devote their entire sideboard to Combo.

Exact

I wonder if Byrant could control himself.

No chance. We had the chatter last week.

[JPoJohnson]

This. People complain every time a new card is printed that makes their pet decks unplayable. TNN is fine.

Cards that could be unbanned without a problem - Mind's Desire, Bargain, Frantic Search, Earthcraft, Mind Twist and Black Vise.

The delver and esper decks are slanted hard to beat the fair decks. Storm needs some love. Mind Twist and Black Vise aren't even good cards.

Anyone that says either Mind's Desire or Earthcraft or Yawgmoth's Bargain can be unbanned NP do not realize how powerful they are.

I don't really see any on the list that will be coming off.

[Gheizen64]

I want to see the following unbanned Feb 3rd:

Bazaar of Baghdad
Black Vise
Earthcraft
Frantic Search
Goblin Recruiter
Gush
Hermit Druid
Mana Drain
Mental Misstep
Mind Twist
Mishra's Workshop
Skullclamp
Oath of Druids
Survival of the Fittest
Worldgorger Dragon


I then want to watch like a mad scientist at what the results would be.

If i had to be ballsy


Tolarian Academy
Library of Alexandria
Mana drain
Mental Mistep
Survival of the fittest
Worldgorger dragon
Black Vise
Mind's Desire
Mind Twist
Earthcraft
Frantic Search
Goblin Recruiter
Yawgmoth's Bargain

Format would still manegeable i guess. Combo get some nice tools (Desire, Dragon, Search, Bargain), control gain the two best counterspells in the game (MM and Drain), plus one of the possibly best card advantage engines (Alexandria), while aggro get Survival, Recruiter and Tolarian (aggro/MUD/prison), plus MM to stay up to the powered up control and combo.

[rufus]

Handing Bryant and me Mind's Desire sounds sure like a good idea...

The thing with Minds Desire and (to a lesser degree) Yawgmoth's Bargain is that the casting cost is high enough to make it quite difficult to play honestly. Bargain can be cheated into play, but it's less game-warping than some of the creatures they've recently printed - and those are easier to get on the table. Similarly, why cheat the casting cost of Desire when you could cheat Enter the Infinite which is much more reliable. Moreover, the window where Mind's Desire is going to be better than Tendrils of Agony is quite narrow, and tendrils is much easier to cast. Maybe the best comparison is with Time Spiral - fire off Mind's Desire to - effectively - get a grip of cards and the mana to cast them. Sure, it's strong, but it doesn't seem meta-breaking.

[feline]

I want to see the following unbanned Feb 3rd:

Bazaar of Baghdad
Black Vise
Earthcraft
Frantic Search
Goblin Recruiter
Gush
Hermit Druid
Mana Drain
Mental Misstep
Mind Twist
Mishra's Workshop
Skullclamp
Oath of Druids
Survival of the Fittest
Worldgorger Dragon


I then want to watch like a mad scientist at what the results would be.

funniest post I've read in a while, lmao

I still advocate unbanning mind twist, people are dumping their hand on turn 1 to kill their opponent, who's going to downgrade a kill to "discard your hand, we're both topdecking, pass the turn"

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Anyone that says either Mind's Desire or Earthcraft or Yawgmoth's Bargain can be unbanned NP do not realize how powerful they are.

I don't really see any on the list that will be coming off.

QFT. Honestly, the ones posting that it would be fine must not have seen what it can do. Honestly, in a format that allows 4 or none, Minds Desire will often hit minds desire, and that, people, is some bs you want no part in.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Tammit67]

I want to see the following unbanned Feb 3rd:

Bazaar of Baghdad
Black Vise
Earthcraft
Frantic Search
Goblin Recruiter
Gush
Hermit Druid
Mana Drain
Mental Misstep
Mind Twist
Mishra's Workshop
Skullclamp
Oath of Druids
Survival of the Fittest
Worldgorger Dragon


I then want to watch like a mad scientist at what the results would be.

Yeah i'm not in a rush to give MUD the consistent ability to skip their mana development from early game and roar right into midgame. The vintage deck loses strip mine and solomoxen but gains 3x trinisphere? Sounds pretty nice for shops :/

[conboy31]

Please what?? Have you ever played with Flash? The era with MUD/Flash/Gushbond at it's top was stupid as fuck!

Yes. Brainstorm, merchant scroll, and ponder have all been restricted since flash was dominant. The deck will add another archetype and be no where near as streamlined as it once was.

[miguelmatix]

Is library of Alexandria or mana drain that broken in legacy?

Minds desire... Such a beast. Impossible to return.

[Lord Seth]

Is library of Alexandria or mana drain that broken in legacy?

Library of Alexandria isn't that broken when you have one out, because you have to really restrict what you play in order to keep your hand at 7.

The real issue comes when you have multiple ones out, because all of a sudden you get to start drawing 2+ cards in addition to your regular draw, which means it's much less of a constraint on what you can cast and you're drawing even more cards.

Of course, Library has the big issue that it would jump to like $1,000 each if it was unbanned.

[Zilla]

With regards to the TNN debate, it seems like the two sides are arguing two totally different points:

Ban Crowd: TNN is bad for Legacy because it's almost unanimously agreed that it creates boring, unfun games.

Anti-Ban Crowd: TNN isn't broken and people just need to adapt.

You know how people adapt to boring games? They stop playing.

[sdematt]

With regards to the TNN debate, it seems like the two sides are arguing two totally different points:

Ban Crowd: TNN is bad for Legacy because it's almost unanimously agreed that it creates boring, unfun games.

Anti-Ban Crowd: TNN isn't broken and people just need to adapt.

You know how people adapt to boring games? They stop playing.

Yep. Couldn't really agree more. If people are uninterested in the format, even if it's not ban worthy to some, then we've got a serious problem here.

-Matt

[[SLAYER]chaos]

I don't think Library or Drain are too powerful for Legacy, there just aren't enough copies of those cards in existence for our format.