Today i was looking through some enchentments and came across Dark Tutelage...
http://deckbox.org/mtg/Dark%20Tutelage
Has anyone tried this card before in an enchantress deck? With Mirri's Guile you shouldn't take a lot of damage....nothing if you keep a land on top....
Wouldn't you rather have Phyrexian Arena and only pay 1 life a turn? Or, you know, an Enchantress?Originally Posted by swordoffireandice
Oeh I like that enchantress idea, tell me more :P
I am however quite intruiged by the inclusion of cadaverous bloom in the deck, does anyone have any experience with that?
Suppression Field is a swingy card. Sometimes it is awesome, other times it's lame. If you are going to run it it should likely be sideboard or paired with other mana depletion / strategies.
If I would build a Black / Green Enchantress build. I'd start with this mock-up I just threw together.
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Words of Waste
4 Wild Growth
3 Abundant Growth
4 Sylvan Library
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Contamination
4 BitterBlossom
3 Quest for the Nihil Stone
2 Green Sun's
4 Verdant Catacombs
10 Forest
6 Swamp
Just deplete the hands and win with BB or Stone. Contamination and BB just seems downright fun / powerful. I May throw this together on MTGO to see how bad it is ...and tweak it.
My deck is currently RGW (words of war, otherwise typical GW), and I've been looking at Wild Research.
With 8 draw effects the deck has a decent chance of having a full hand and making the discard less of a dealbreaker.
I've been looking at it hard, but it seems like I wouldn't want to use it with a replenish in hand....
Is it playable?
So I tested it. Pretty horrible.
I was thinking more along the lines of either a single Cadaverous Bloom or as a two of, a bit like words of war in the GWr builds, to be able to go of in a big way with some enchantresses on board and exiling stuff to keep casting all the wild growth's and drawing most of the deck. I remember you mentioning Eureka at some point in the thread and this could fill a similair role, just ramping into either Emrakul or rip helm with City of Solitude out or playing a Silence et al. somewhere in the turn.
I don't realy like words of waste, but being slightly more black would give us acces to Duress/Thoughtseize for the harder combo matchups as well as Dread of night/Engineered plague in the board for Death and Taxes etc.
This is what I'm trying to compile at the moment, I'm not a rich man nor do I play on modo so it might take some time with trading and saving up for those prohibitively expensive legends cards.
LOL
Squandered Resources + Cadaverous Bloom + (possibly) Land Tax is a great combo engine in Enchantress.
Thing is, the deck becomes more combo, less control. The clock barely changes with this change since it requires the same setup (2 active Enchantress effects really) and that's where the deck is vulnerable. However, it's a very nice version. Just keeping making mana, cast 1cc enchantments and finally dig into Tendrils of Agony. I have playtested this setup a (long) while ago. It works, it's surprising but the speed is the same and that's the issue. Besides the core (mana + Enchantress) the deck is filled with combo (mainly). With a more traditional white (or blue) build, the combo-pieces are exchanged for control, buying the time needed to get things to a point where Enchantress gets the momentum.
Good to know, I thought it might have helped in creating a more consistent kill after the control phase of the game and maybe a turn earlier, but enchantress as a combo deck is not the place where it wants to be, as a combo we are slower than the rest with no counters/discard backup. We are better of making the opponent feel miserable through a nice lock.
I do however love both playing black and the draw a card keyword so I will try to make some black shenanigans happen.
I went to a legacy event at my LGS last Sunday with this list :
LAND 20
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest
Creatures 5
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Enchantments 33
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Enchantress's Presence
Artifact 2
2 Helm of Obedience
SB 14
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Suppression Field
2 Aura of Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Warmth
Event had around 20-24 players, a rather varied meta some of the decks included 2 pox, manaless dreadge, a bug delver and shardless bug, budget reanimator and merfolk, a few affinity, countertop or miracles, tin fins, goblins, and hightide that's all i remember seeing...
Round 1 starts off with the guy I'm paired with still sleeving his deck which was a mono black reanimator. Surprisingly we start in a relative decent amount of time.
Game 1 goes me on the play start with a wild growth on forest pass turn. Opponent entombs, almost putting inkwell leviathan in yard then change mind to sphinx of the steel wind, he passes. I turn 2 an argothian followed by an elephant grass and ride it out until a helm win.
+2 Faerie Macabre / -2 Leylines
Game 2 on the draw. Opponent lands a turn 2 wurmcoil, connecting twice, I end up with a Eramkul win on turn 4.
2-0 / 1-0 Good start
Round 2 paired up with the more budget merfolk (no Forces) rather formidable however.
Game 1 on the play start out with turn 1 wild growth. Opponent has a hand of counters and counter pretty much everything I do... I lose turn 3 or 4, turn 4 more likely.
+2 Carpet of flowers +1 Choke/-3 leylines
Game 2 on the play, bait out a few of his counters and then confinement lock him out of the game and win with emrakul.
Game 3 on the draw and opponent mulls to 6. opponent has a relative low counter hand. I keep a hand with emrakul, enchantress effect 3 wild growths effect and 2 lands. I ramps rather fast to emrakul with the help of a drawn sanctum.
2-1 / 2-0 Starting to get a little excited about how things are going so far.
Round 3 paired with shardless BUG.
Game 1 locked opponent out of the game relatively quick and pull out win with emrakul. this game was kind of funny in the way when buy the time I was able to cast emrakul he had a substantial board including a pair of baleful strix. When I swing in with emi he sacs his 6 permanents the chumps with baleful strix then i just karakas him back to hand and cast him again, once he realized I could keep doing that not giving time walking him in indefinably he scoops.
+2 Carpet of flowers, +1 Choke, +2 Oblivion Rings / -2 leylines, -1 wild growth, -1 utopia sprawl, -1 Sphere of Safety.
Game 2 on the draw. Played land and wild growth passed turn. Opponent hymns. Oppenent is able to abrupt decay my presence's and I'm not able to keep up with tthe damage from goyf.
-2 Oblivion ring / +2 Leylines
Game 3 unable to draw into a leyline but keep at decent hand with 2 presence's and some ramp. Opponent hymns again getting a enchantress and a wild growth and abrupt decays the other one I'm able to get into play. I draw into all lands and no answers...
1-2 / 2-1 Still feeling confident, chalked up the last loss to bad luck.
Round 4 I get paired with pox...
Game 1 I knew I was playing pox and knew I had to draw into a leyline. I mull to 6 on the draw and keep a decent hand and hope for the best. Opponent keeps a hand with 3 sinkholes and wasteland, this game went poorly for one of us, take a guess which one.
+2 Aura of Silence +1 Suppression Field / -3 Sterling Groove
Game 2 had to hope for a leyline, mull to 5 looking for one, didn't find one. I get hymned for all my go cards and draw nothing but lands until I die.
Went 2-2 for the day and overall I felt pretty good that with some minor tweeks I could be competitive in the meta with this deck. Most people were surprised and interested in my deck, that seemed cool. Looking for any advise and critiques on how you think I could improve this list.
The SB felt a bit lacking in some cases but right on in others, I some ideas on how to improve it, but went into a speculated meta.
thx for the report domajm32. Do you think it's the good choice to play 4 leyline main deck?
I made some playtests this WE with a friend and i found Elephant grass pretty useless. Most of the time, i use it to trigger my enchantress effects and i sacrifice it during my next upkeep... In early game it's a big loose of tempo and on late game you don't need it! For which matchup do you need it? Do you usually side it out?
The main deck leylines were there to hopefully improve my game 1 against combo, however the only combo at this event was tin-fins. In my area there are 5-6 ANT or TES players. Also helps against the tezz win from affinity and helps make hymn a dead card.
The turn 2 elephant grass against the mono black reanimator won me that game, also kept merfolk in check until I landed the confinement. Your right that about half the time it's kind of a dead card.
A friend of mine that plays in the meta runs the gate which I think the grasses and leylines main give me a very good game one percentage. Mostly a meta call I think.
Potawo what did you play test against? I do side out the grasses when they don't do much for me.
Thanks for the input, I will definitely need to meta tweek this.
White leyline is fantastic vs. Liliana, discard spells and the random burn deck here and there. I think I'd cheat a little run 2-3 main since you can actually cast it pretty quick.
There's really no point in not running Moat in the 75. Grass is meh, slamming a moat free's up your mana and is an auto win vs. Merfolk who I think have taken Coralhelm out.
I mainly tested against Bug and ur delver + death & taxes (and a little bit against show and tell). I played a list with RIP/helm, 3 gsz, 1 city of solitude and a personal touch with 1 terastodon MD (good when paired with RIP)
For few games i tried 4 suppression field instead of 4 elephant grass and i found it much more usefull!
Last edited by Potawo; 02-04-2014 at 02:22 AM.
The point in not running Moat is that it doesn't help in your bad matchups and is win-more in your good ones. Grass is good because it comes out early, which is when you need it most, and is a 1cc enchantment for when you have Confinement/Sphere online and just want to chain draws together. Most doesn't autowin vs. anything that Sphere doesn't and it doesn't stop the creatures it needs to stop most (flipped Delvers, Griselbrand, Emrakul) because they fly. Grass/Sphere is the optimal anti-attack step package in all but the strangest metagames.
Went to a 113 man torunament wiht enchantress (GWu). It was ok for me 4-3 facing all BG splashes with liliana aaall of them. Jund, UBw, rock , BUG, the new lands based deck (with liliana) then rug and ant. Very hard...i choose u as splash because it offer us the option of set a fast lock that does not depends on enchantress effect maily.
Liliana is a very hot dangerous girl. I hate the card. I suffered it T1 in last round with mull to 5 however i managed to win that game! :)
For me, the main concern with enchantress is what class of problem do you want to solve with the splash. U allows us to "scape" from TNN and burn faster (i expected this in my meta). Moreover i added detention sphere to eat double copies of goyf or even an horde of goblin tokens. I most of cases it was as well as an o-ring with a couple of exceptions but i'm not sure if they are significant. Finally i took words of win as "3rd win cond". Didnt need it as side it out every time. I didnt took attunement first because i didnt own it (now i own 3) and second because i think that my deck is not designed for it.
Helm + rip is a solid pretty fast win cond taht you can get even from a topdeck (as it happened against BGw) so i'll try to keep it main deck. Rip slows down ogyf, shaman and mongoose pretty well. However i have to admit that many times i wished i had a replenish. Another card u adds is inthe eye of chaos which is insane but im not sure necesary.
Black splash sound pretty fun. It allows us to destroy the hand of the oponent, conserve the helm condition and add bounches of mana with bloom to cast emy or a high tendrils. I m not sure if improves any mu but it's n interesting spalsh.
Red splash adds words of war, an excellent win cond and blood moon which could be game if it hits the field in the proper moment.
All in all, i wander if just GW enchantress is the best choice. Confinement, rip-helm, sphere / moat. grass, 8 enchantress efects, o-ring and so on.
Oh, if you are interested this is the list in took:
2 Serra
6 forest
1 savannah
1 karakas
1 tropical
6 fetchs
3 plains
4 presence
4 argothian
4 grass
4 utopia
3 wild growth
3 mirri
1 o-ring
2 confinement
1 throne
3 rip
2 E. tutor
1 Detention sphere
4 Grove
1 words of wind
1 e. field
2 Helm
Side:
1 moat
1 K. justice
3 carpet
1 city of solitude (maybe too anti-u hate)
1 o-ring
4 Leyline
1 Rule of law
1 Rip
1 E field
1 Humility
Some notes: make lots of mulligan during the tournament, however that wasnt decisive for winning or loosing. Had some trouble for sideboarding specially when in the other side there was blue. As i said maybe 4 slots dedicated to that MU is simply too much. Sometimes i used 61 cards deck in 2nd and 3rd games.
Overall the deck works fine it becomes annoying for the opo but your brain slows down round after round which made me make some mistakes (almost never decisive). Im glad.
Any comment?
Thx
GC
Agreed. I have a love hate relationship with Elephant Grass but it's hardly nota 3 of in the 75. Sometimes main (as it is currently) sometimes in the board, but it is too good at what it does. ...and surprisingly effective against Sneak and Show as it makes them have 6 mana to through the breech or Sneak Attack or just plain stops Grizzy. This gives you enough time to GSZ Gaddock to really make them dig.
@domajm32:
First off your run wasn't too bad, and I'm very happy to read that your conclusion was you went 2-2 therefore Enchantress is not good in this meta. I really like the way you are approaching this.
Having the Leylines main does seem correct for your meta, but it does bring the combo elements of the deck (i.e. the big draw turns) down. I assume your mana base is a result of not having access to Windswept Heath? Fetching into a Savannah can be dangerous as we need all the mana we can get, and it is a juicy waste / port target. ...I guess it's not too bad if you can back it up with other basics, but I would not keep a hand with Savannah and other growth effects unless I was desperate (like a mull to 5.)
I have been running 1 plains and 4 windswepts, 4 Utopia Sprawl, 2 Abundant Growth, 1-2 Karakas (more on this later), 4 Serra's and been very happy with the base.
@ 0 Green Sun's - I'm not saying you have to go crazy and run all 4 but to run 0 does seem incorrect. Running Sterling Grove is not a replacement as grove is not an efficient tutor and you will tempo yourself, and needlessly expose yourself to Abrupt Decay's if you do sac it to find a presence in the BGx match-up where you need to 9-10+ effects to power through.
The past week of so I have been testing 2 Crop Rotation and have been pretty impressed with the card. It allows me to run (1) Karakas and count on having it when I need to bounce a legend as well as chain 3 Serra's Sanctums in a turn provided I started the turn with 1 play one and rotate one. Out of the board it becomes part of my graveyard hate when I bring in Bojuka Bog. You would be surprised the amount of Merit Lieges and Emrakuls I have bounced this way. The only thing that sucks is it is not an enchantment nor draws a card which has come-up a few times but not often. The non-draw did not result in a game loss though.
It also has been used to just simply get a shuffle when I don't like the guile.
Questions: What are the Warmths for? ...and does (1) Suppression Field feel correct in your play? It seems to me likeit is an effect you want to stack.
My list has 2 heaths and 2 catacombs was kind of a typo (was going on memory). I think the GSZ is something I should fit in the list. Perhaps taking out the groves? I like the suppression fields a lot and plan on adding more. The warmths were in there because they have worked very well against burn they have won me games against them in the past. I'm attending another event this Sunday with a different sb and perhaps changing up the main slightly. Thanks for the insight.
Hi all,
I'm working about an Enchantress list that I think that is the good way to make Enchantress competitive.
I'm not the time to test it actually, so if anybody want to try it. I would be grateful.
We have all tested many kind of enchantress builds: GW, GWR, GWU, GU and GUB. But no one seems to be really competitive (specially when we have to fight combo in G1).
So, which is the good combinaison to build a competitive enchantress?
My opinion:
Green: Obvious Enchantress build have to be Green (and very Green) for cards that everybody knows.
White: The white is powerful, mainly with Rest in peace that is a excellent card in the actual meta, Solitary confinement, Karakas, ... So it's important to play white.
But, to be competitive, we need a very good weapon VS combo that have to be MD. The best weapons to fight combo is discard and/or counterspell (unfortunately no enchantments and no green or white spells), so we need at least to play 3 colors by adding either blue for counterspell either black for discard.
Blue color means to play FoW (but to play FoW, we need to play at least 16 blue cards that's is impossible for us), Daze (means to play island and/or tropical island that will weaken the mana base), or spell pierce (means to keep blue mana open and can block us many mana when the blue mana is given by an utopia).
So the last possibility is Black for discard but which one ? And how many ?
We want to put key cards like Argothian/presence or kill card (RiP/Helm) safely, so we want to discard counterspell before playing key cards. Moreover, combo play many non-creature spells (except Elves) so => Duress seems to be a good choice. But, I want to be efficient vs all combo so Elves too. So I need more discard card. The best is Thoughtseize but lose 2lifes can be very dangerous when we fight non-combo deck. That's why I suggest to put it to the sideboard for G2/G3 VS Combo (where we can consume life easily). But we need more discard card than x3,x4 Duress MD to have a chance VS combo.deck and we need discard that can be efficient VS Elves => Inquisition of Kozilek.
Inquisition of Kozilek help us to fight combo.deck (elves included) and it's a good card vs non-combo.deck to discard Abrupt Decay or TNN or Liliana...It's not important that the card can't discard FoW because when you discard a card, you don't target FoW if possible but another blue card (that will be more efficient).
So, for me, we need to have at least x3 Duress + x3 Inquisition of Kozilek MD and x3 Thoughtseize in SB to enhance the MU combo.
Discard cards are not enchantment but give us chance to fight combo and to put combo/key cards on the battlefied.
So, I suggest to play an GWB Enchantress build.
My personal list (that I will test when I will find time):
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
9 Forest
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Leafcrown Dryad
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Cloudstone Curio
1 Sphere of Safety
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Abundant Growth
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Sideboard
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Cursed Totem
3 Seal of Primordium
3 Thoughtseize
In order to not make a huge post, I don't explain my choices in this post (and maybe you don't care about them) but if you want to know my choices on my list (why god? Why Tendrils? ...) please ask me and I will answer you.
Regards,
Dihensoeur
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