My current MUD-Post build I've been running for awhile:
//Lands: 24
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
//Creatures: 15
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Platinum Angel
2 Sundering Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine
//Artifacts: 19
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Staff of Domination
2 Staff of Nin
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
//Planeswalkers: 2
2 Karn Liberated
//Sideboard: 15
1 Bottled Cloister
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sundering Titan
2 All is Dust
I'm beginning it may beginning to feel a little dated (not too much though, I ramped out a hardcast Blightsteel on Turn 3 recently), but I'm open for suggestions.
P.S. I also have a non-Post MUD deck as well, so please don't suggest I take out the Cloudpost mana base. I already have another deck for that.
What's about playing The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the Sideboard, by running the Twelve Post Mana Base?
We can pay our creatures easily, but it ist very strong against Goblins, Elves, Dredge, Maybe Threshold, Meerfolk, Empty the Warrens...
[QOTE=Rome;790559]What's about playing The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the Sideboard, by running the Twelve Post Mana Base?
We can pay our creatures easily, but it ist very strong against Goblins, Elves, Dredge, Maybe Threshold, Meerfolk, Empty the Warrens...[/QUOTE]
Tribal really shouldnt be a problem in the first place.
12 post is just.. slooow and instabile. Double vesuva? Yeah great.
I think i found the right mana base for MUD:
8 sol land
4 wasteland (this legacy right? )
4 cavern of souls
2 petrified field (solves traitors instability)
4 mishras factory (game winner in certain matchups PLUS u can surprise activate kuldotha by tapping it 4 a artifact worker then sacking it! Most dont notice it like that)
Sorry brainfarted, counted 26 land instead of 22
I placed 16th out of 283 people at SCG Nashville this past weekend with MUD. Posted a report to the Tournament Reports section for anyone interested.
thanks, always interested in mud reportsOriginally Posted by biglongjohns
Congratulations, I saw that. It made me happy
Sent from my LGMS500 using Tapatalk
Primary deck: Mud
Secondary deck: Burn
Building: Nic Fit
Congrats on top 16!
I noticed in your tournament report that your one and a half losses are to discard, either dead guy or Jund. I've been working on it and this past weekends $3k, I tried running 2 bottled cloisters maindeck. I taked to people and we thought it was a great gap card in the mana base, as the deck usually only has lodestone golem in the 4 slot. Game one I landed it against Jund and the card advantage was their demise. Ufortunately the following game they were on the play and hymned me the turn before I could cast it. I found it significantly better over witchbane orb. Dodekapod seems ok, but if they thought seize you first they will know you have it. But if they don't know you have it, blow out! :-)
What did you think of the manabase? I noticed that it was the same as the one I post a few weeks ago. I spent a lot of time trying to smooth mine to get to that configuration.
Dodekapod is just horrible or at least i think. I think theres only one non targeted discard card in legacy? Thats a niche. And a 5/5 really isnt that impressive right? Right??!
Bottled cloister is a cool card. only reason i lose from jund is because they draw removal faster and more then i can make threads. Bob, even sylvan library can devestate our plans just because of more removal.
I still dont like postmana base. Ill keep with my cities and some petrified fields for stability.
I second Alex on dodecapode: I tested it and to fight Liliana (since we chose what to discard), but a ground 5/5 is not very large compared to goyf, which against us is often 5/6 or more.
One time it even got discarded by thoughtseize since it was my only non-land card, and even then it was underwelming.
@Alex: Doesn't all this talkin' about post manabase interest you? I'm feeling a little excited and I might give it a try: GP Paris is coming and I haven't still made my mind about playing reanimator...
Ignorance is strength
I really like the Post lands in this deck. Before I saw them used in this deck, I had pretty much given up on playing MUD after constantly getting blown out by Wastelands. Also, since the lands alone allow you to generate massive amounts of mana, you don't need to play Mox Opal, Mox Diamond, or Lotus Petal which are all terrible draws in the late game.
I like Bottled Cloister and I even own a couple but any deck is gonna side in their artifact hate in G2 and the thought of my Cloister getting destroyed while my whole hand is under it sounds devastating. I'm not actually considering Dodecapod. It just sounds funny. Maybe if my local meta was going Hymn crazy then I'd jam 4. Witchbane Orb seems like a reasonable card as it also has cross application against Storm, High Tide and Burn.
If you're worried about discard, have you thought about using Buried Ruin over Cavern of Souls? Possibly with Crucible of Worlds
Even Scarecrone doesn't sound like a bad idea postboard as a means of recursion.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
The important thing to remember about using a Locus mana base is to not use four Vesuva, because though can be worse in the early game. Besides the fact that 12-Post/"Turbo Eldrazi" have cut down to two Vesuva in the recent months, in MUD 4 Vesuva is bad because:
1. MUD doesn't have room for Expedition Map, so assembling a decent Locus base is more difficult. Doable, but not just something that the deck is initially designed for.
2. City of Traitors is so much worse when Vesuva comes into play tapped as anything but a Cloudpost. It's an annoying situation that came up too often when I ran too many Vesuvas.
3. Without Cloudpost, Vesuva itself is a kind of underwhelming card because the land it's copying comes into play tapped. Cloudpost understandable comes into play tapped from a design perspective. Every other land in Legacy does not have the justification of entering the battlefield tapped that I can think of off the top of my head.
That being said, run a few Vesuva. It's a great card to plagiarize other lands. But it's just not justified as a four of.
Last edited by Mockingbird; 02-16-2014 at 12:45 PM.
A mudpost list from the gp paris trials:
4 Wasteland
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 City of Traitors
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Steel Hellkite
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Tangle Wire
1 All Is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Thran Dynamo
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Bottled Cloister
2 Karn Liberated
Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 All Is Dust
1 Sundering Titan
2 Cursed Totem
This is almost like mine. Please tell me more about this deck.
Also, no Metalworker?
Last edited by Mockingbird; 02-18-2014 at 12:34 PM.
FYI there's a MUD article on SCG premium side today!
The take away from the article is that chalice of the void isn't good enough anymore. Wtf? I've got few free wins off of chalice of the void and often it draws a force of will. Which is perfectly fine. Do y'all agree with me?
Chalice is one of the main strengths the deck has imo. A blind t1 Chalice at 2 is still nuts, buying the deck much needed time to get the mana-engine to work, which will win the game. Tangle Wire (which I run) and Trinisphere have a similar effect.
Chalice at 1, some highlights;
Brainstorm + Ponder in many many decks
mana rituals in combo
Removal like Bolt, Path, StP
Discard like Thoughtseize, Duress, IoK
Mana creatures like Deathrite, Birds and Hierarch
Some complete decks like Reanimator.
I don't know what to think of the article. I don't have SCG premium.
My thoughts on a Turn 1 Chalice of the Void is that it's only as good as the follow-up. Force or no Force, your opponent is now likely slower because of it, which means we only have stalled until they drop Tarmogoyf (or any other 2 Drop) or break it with Abrupt Decay. And what that means is that against most control decks, if we're on the draw, we've likely only annoyed them, not disrupted them. It's fine, but the question is has there been a meta shift where opponents are playing around Chalice easier.
Personally, I find the rare Turn 1 Trinisphere more disruptive because it means your opponent has to sit on their hands until they get the mana. That however requires Grim Monolith, so I understand that's not something to actively seek.
I'll look over the article in more detail later, but my initial thought is he's right to an extent about the meta evolving beyond the efficiency of T1 Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere. Key phrase though: to an extent.
First, just because Chalice's use has narrowed does not necessitate that it's use has narrowed to the point of being a moot card. To be honest, it means to me that perhaps we should focusing setting other Chalices on higher numbers after the initial one (to draw a comparison, like everyone does with Chalice @ 0 against combo to make sure opponents don't recover after the fact they can't kill you T1 with rocks). My initial point still stands though, Chalice is only as good as it's follow-up.
Second, Blood Moon is only good when people don't see it coming. I play 12-Post and MUD-Post (and have MUD on the side), and I know how to play around Blood Moon. Besides, when being greedy with Mana bases becomes too easily punishable, people will shift the meta by scaling non-basics back for basics and Abrupt Decay the Blood Moon. But also, Chalice makes sure that you have a chance to reach Blood Moon without your opponent sneaking something before Turn 3 or killing Abrupt Decay by warping mana bases.
Third, even though MUD is a difficult deck to evolve with the meta, there are three points against it's inability to not change with the times.
1. We don't exactly have the cards to do so because Wizards has to be careful when designing artifacts. Most of MUD's latest and greatest toys all came with Zendikar-Scars standard block. Wizards tends to keep artifact power levels down because if they work for us, then God help when every other deck picks it up because it's that good (case and point: Sensei's Divining Top). So our card pool is a little niche. But even so, what we have now works well enough for us to remain relevant.
2. MUD has splintered, which is something he doesn't acknowledge in this evolutionary lacking of MUD. In the past year MUD-Post has gone from being a cute idea to a real thing because Cloudpost helps our lines of play beyond combo out with Staff of Domination or Kuldotha Forgemaster to the point to where drawing those scary hard to cast artifacts is not nearly as frustrating as it use to be. I used a Cloudpost+Metalworker to hardcast Blightsteel Colossus Turn 3 last week, which by the way is a bad idea because [cards]Swords to Plowshares[cards] is a reason to not do something just to say that you did it. But had that been Sundering Titan...
3. We have to be careful how we curve because Abrupt Decay catches everything cheap right now. One of the appeals of MUD over say... Painter's Servant is that our Win con.
Fourth, I'm inclined to ask this author that if the meta is shifting the way it has, that perhaps Mental Misstep may be up for an unbanning. Granted Chalice's efficiency is hampered by Abrupt Decay (as is all permanents that it can hit), but I'm getting the sense that's not why he thinks Chalice's use is fading. I get the feeling that he wants to argue that the 1 CMC slot is underwhelming and less important than 2 or 3.
But from my first impression, what I see is the author's point that Chalice of the Void is too narrow to be maindecked as a four of may in itself argue it's point too narrowly. MUD is still showing relevancy as is its new little brother MUD-Post. But I don't want to discount the idea entirely. Perhaps testing MUD without chalice may be a good idea just to at least say to ourselves, "I (dis)agree with his point."
I have premium and have read the article. I can understand some of it's points, but not running Chalice of the Voids in a deck with eight Sol lands and no one-drops just seems too alien to me. MUD abuses Chalice so well that it almost seems wrong to cut it. I know that I'm always happy to see Chalice+Sol land in my opener because it gives us so many free wins. It single-handedly beats Canadian Threshold if it resolves. I've also never been a fan of the combo-tastic, more all-in on Forgemaster type of MUD but that boils down to my personal preferences.
But to be completely honest, I'm starting to question Levin's credibility when it comes to Legacy theory. I mean, I'm happy that he's a dedicated bi-weekly Legacy writer, but recently he bashed the UWR Delver deck a week before Owen won with it at GP DC, called the BUG Delver approach "lacking" the week before it won (for now...) GP Paris, and "introduced" Blue Jund when it was really just a generic BUG Midrange deck AND it was a deck that Reid Duke won an invitational with.
But I'll still watch the videos of him playing the deck later this week. He's been following up his Tuesday articles with a videos of him playing the decks he writes about.
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