Would you like to see Survival back in the format?

[btm10]

I think that point is moot as long as Show and Tell is legal. I want the SnT decks, so I think worse-than-Show should also be legal. All we can do is unban powerful cards and hope they do something.

[Lt. Quattro]

I voted no but I don't think it would be worse than turn 2 griselbrand so - 1 no and + 1 yes for the poll please.

[civet five]

To be honest I voted for 'No' as I think it would only get used to enable another range of noninteractive combo which we all find so miserable to play against. It isn't necessarily my idea of fun where matches depend entirely on whether you find your hate or not. This isn't the old days where Survival fetches Genesis and Squee for long-term advantage and Survival should be considered purely as a combo enabler such as Show and Tell nowadays.

The fastest pure kill I'm aware of with Survival of the Fittest is Volrath's Shapeshifter+Phage the Untouchable, which can kill on turn2 with the nuts (and the nuts doesn't even need SotF, it could theoretically happen now):
Turn1: Land, dork.
Turn2: Land, Shapeshifter, LED, discard a hand that contains Anger and Phage, stacking Phage on top.

In this form it plays out like Infect in terms of speed and "only with the nuttiest of the nuts does it kill on turn2" but with Survival it increases in consistency for turn 3-4. Zombardment, Maverick, Meathooks, Infect, Reanimator, Jund, Nic Fit, etc all also could benefit from Survival of the Fittest. Other combos that SotF could enable will involve creatures in some way, and creatures continue to be the most easily dealt with form of permanent. I view SotF like Force of Will but rather than cramming FoW with Brainstorm and 8 other cards, now we're cramming SotF and 10+ creatures into a shell.

[Dzra]

Survival has one problem of coming back in that necrotic ooze and loyal Retainer makes for one resilient grisselbrand deck that can both instant combo kill or play a grind match.

As others have pointed out, Survival is more mana intensive and more susceptible to hate than Show and Tell or Sneak Attack at cheating Griselbrand into play. That's not to say that a Griselbrand + Loyal Retainers/Ooze package might not find its way into Survival SBs, but it probably won't be the selling point.

And also, while Vengevine might be the best creature package for Survival, I wouldn't want it banned right off. I would much rather see Necrotic Ooze get the axe because I feel like it is more likely to lead to dumb and unfun games.

[Meekrab]

As long as we're unbanning enchantments, can we talk about Yawgmoth's Bargain? It's basically worse than Ad Nauseum.

[civet five]

As long as we're unbanning enchantments, can we talk about Yawgmoth's Bargain? It's basically worse than Ad Nauseum.

I don't agree that it's worse than Ad Nauseum, but I do agree that its potentially safe to unban. It's 1 life per card, so it basically cannot ever draw the entire deck, but unlike Ad Nauseum it can draw multiple higher CMC spells without killing you. I do think that in a format that allows Omniscience to get cheated into play and Enter the Infinite draws your entire deck, not to mention Griselbrand, YB doesn't seem all that broken.

[Dzra]

I don't agree that it's worse than Ad Nauseum, but I do agree that its potentially safe to unban.

It's definitely better than Ad Nauseam and almost always better than Griselbrand. That being said... I'm not sure that it's too powerful for the format. Although, you'd have to be ok with making a UB Show and Tell deck that wins with Tendrils into a thing.

[Lord Seth]

I don't think Show and Tell and Yawgmoth's Bargain have much synergy. Show and Tell is powerful because the cards it drops into play are win conditions of themselves. Emrakul and Griselbrand can, by themselves, win the game. Omniscience needs some more help, but there's still a lot of cards in your deck that you just win with via Omniscience if they're in your hand.

But Yawgmoth's Bargain? It doesn't do that. It's not a win condition. Show and Tell into Yawgmoth's Bargain doesn't give you a card to win you the game with; it gives you a card that lets you pay life to try to find the win condition card instead of being a win condition.

[Megadeus]

The one thing that Ad Nauseam does that Bargain doesnt do is force you to build your deck around having a low CMC. You can reasonable play 3-4 bargain in you wanted along with other random high costing cards for whatever reason you need. Ad Nauseam you are forced into a low curve.

[apple713]

I'm all for unbanning cards, but I'm confidant that bargain is not one of those cards. it's too good. Pay 1 life draw a card.... draw as many as you'd like.... Play with Children of Korlis and draw your deck..... gg. it's better than griselbrand imo just because its 1 card at a time and if you have 6 mana you can just cast it....

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I don't think Show and Tell and Yawgmoth's Bargain have much synergy. Show and Tell is powerful because the cards it drops into play are win conditions of themselves. Emrakul and Griselbrand can, by themselves, win the game. Omniscience needs some more help, but there's still a lot of cards in your deck that you just win with via Omniscience if they're in your hand.

But Yawgmoth's Bargain? It doesn't do that. It's not a win condition. Show and Tell into Yawgmoth's Bargain doesn't give you a card to win you the game with; it gives you a card that lets you pay life to try to find the win condition card instead of being a win condition.

It's a combo enabler, in the same spirit of Sneak Attack. It's actually probably quite a bit better in that it doesn't require mana or another card in hand to be effective, only life. This list would run rituals and more mana rocks, so it would be faster, I'm not sure it would run forces, but it's an option, along with discard. It would basically be a non-graveyard dependent tin fins that doesn't need the creature part of the equation. It will never be unbanned. If it does, I will quit. You probably will, too.

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[apple713]

It's a combo enabler, in the same spirit of Sneak Attack. It's actually probably quite a bit better in that it doesn't require mana or another card in hand to be effective, only life. This list would run rituals and more mana rocks, so it would be faster, I'm not sure it would run forces, but it's an option, along with discard. It would basically be a non-graveyard dependent tin fins that doesn't need the creature part of the equation. It will never be unbanned. If it does, I will quit. You probably will, too.

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i wouldn't quit, i'd just make sure i was the one playing it... but yeah there is too many reasons for this card to remain banned. There is a reason griselbrand cost 8 and its not because of its life linking body.

[btm10]

As long as we're unbanning enchantments, can we talk about Yawgmoth's Bargain? It's basically worse than Ad Nauseum.

I'm pretty sure that this is trolling, but some of the comments on Bargain others have been making show just as much ignorance about Bargain as Meekrab's comment does about Survival. Even the BW Urza Block Bargain deck that used Bargain/Soul Feast/Skirge Familiar to win (Bargain was usually cheated out with Academy Rector/Phyrexian Tower) would probably be a Tier 2 Legacy deck, and there are undoubtedly storm versions that are far, far worse.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I don't understand the logic in unbanning anything that helps blue or combo, it seems counter-productive. Even Black Vise is shaky on that grounds since there is some possibility of Stasis being a good deck with the card, although unlikely.

I don't understand the arguments against Survival either. People are afraid of "degenerate" combos that cost 1GGGGG+ in this format, with turn 2 Griselbrands?

[rxavage]

I'd love to see SotF unbanned but not at the cost of anything being banned. I think the card would be fine in this format, even with Necrotic Ooze, Vengevine, Loyal Retainers and friends.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I'd love to see SotF unbanned but not at the cost of anything being banned.

Such a weird phenomenon.

[Meekrab]

I don't understand the logic in unbanning anything that helps blue or combo, it seems counter-productive. Even Black Vise is shaky on that grounds since there is some possibility of Stasis being a good deck with the card, although unlikely.

What's left on the banned list that doesn't 'help blue or combo'? Is there a single card? Even Hermit Druid and Goblin Recruiter would probably be best in a blue shell.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

What's left on the banned list that doesn't 'help blue or combo'? Is there a single card? Even Hermit Druid and Goblin Recruiter would probably be best in a blue shell.

What the hell blue shell would you put Recruiter in?

Skullclamp probably wouldn't be best in a blue shell, but it's dumb to unban for other reasons. Ditto to Channel and Fastbond.

Survival of the Fittest, Mind Twist, and Earthcraft could come off without helping blue. So could Goblin Recruiter and Shahrazad, but they do take a lot of time out of the game.

Mishra's Workshop and Bazaar of Baghdad would probably not be in primarily blue shells, at least they wouldn't fit within existing blue shells. They are probably not very good cards to unban anyway though.

Worldgorger Dragon wouldn't be played in blue decks for the simple reason that it wouldn't be played, but still.

[Dzra]

Survival of the Fittest, Mind Twist, and Earthcraft

Any of these would probably be fine to come off, although the only one that I think will actually make a positive contribution to the format would be Survival. Mishra's Workshop might actually be safe to unban, although doing so would almost certainly necessitate banning Trinisphere. The others you mentioned are either too powerful or cause unnecessary tournament awkwardness.

[Hof]

What's left on the banned list that doesn't 'help blue or combo'? Is there a single card? Even Hermit Druid and Goblin Recruiter would probably be best in a blue shell.

Goblin Recruiter in a blue shell?
I would love to see a decklist. I hear laughter is good medicine.

Anyway, balancing the color wheel should not be a major consideration when managing the banned list of a format with a declared goal of allowing as many cards as possible.

I am all for unbanning Recruiter, although I seriously doubt it would make Goblins tier 1 at this point.

More on topic, I am for unbanning Survival. I only a little worried that every Survival list would begin with 4 Survival, 4 Deathrite Shaman just to keep other Survival decks in check.