Both great articles. Could you give us an in depth analysis of Wear Vs Disenchant? I have basically changed my mind every time I've played the deck at this point, and could use some help on it.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Originally Posted by useL
Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
@Einh: Great article. But what irritated me a little was the part with the D&T Matchup. You said the number one priority would be to handle the Vial and yet you board out Spellpierce and Force. My question is: Do you distinguish between "on the play" and "on the draw" when sideboarding? Because spellpierce seems to fit the plan of handling Vial, if you are on the play, pretty well. And why do you want Counterspell over Force when you could potentially counter a t1 Vial (especially on the draw)?
Thanks, guys!
@Disenchant over Wear/Tear:
Paulo mentions that he does not understand how I could play the "inferior" Disenchant, while he plays Wear/Tear. Well, first of all there are the well known advantages or Wear/Tear= Better Cb-curve-Card / can 2 for 1 and can be played for one mana less. On the other side there's the old topic of consistency and on-color cards that do practically the same. I was on the fence too, and during my testing period I had Wear/Tear. But I had something else, which seems to have slipped Paulos mind. I did not play a Mountain, had I played one, would I use Wear/Tear. Without a Basic Mountain I feel that the on-color consistency of Disenchant is more important than the marginal advantages, when taking into account that you have to fetch for Volcanic.
@DnT-MU:
I am sorry that I was unclear. Aether Vial is very important, but in order to make this boarding well balanced one Force of Will has to be cut. OtP you could def. keep the Spell Pierces over a 3rd FoW and the 3rd Counterspell, should you wish to do so - but I still won't do it. Why? Because 3 Force of Will, 2 EE and 1 Disenchant should be enough to handle one Aether Vial in a reasonable time. Plus this cards can be used otherwise in this MU too, obv. It's hard to find a target for Spell Pierce, maybe Midgame Skull/Cataclysm. Counterspell has the big upside of dealing with aether vial, should it come later, plus it catches all their nasty special cards they might bring - and once the midgame is reached without them having Vial Counterspell makes sure they feel fucking bad for playing white only - as simple moves like Counterspell, Snapcaster Counterspell will wreck them.
I hope I was a little more clear now. Shouldn't this be the case = keep asking until you feel like the question has been answered due to your liking.
Greetings
PV's a great player, he could have Top 8 with other decks, not necessarily Miracle. His article had good points, but Ein's article had More insights, just by the virtue that he worked on Miracle longer than PV. Between these 2 articles (or 2 from Ein and 1 from PV), I feel like that's sufficient material for a primer.
@Einherjer
How often has the issue of 2-3 Miracle cards cluttering your opening hand come up?
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Someone should make a computer program to play Miracles as fast and as perfectly as possible.
How often? Puhh, this depends on how much is "too often" for you, personally. I like to play at maximum 6 miraclespells (thats why you see 3 Terminus 1 verdict in most lists packing 3 Entreats) - and I felt comfortable with 6. Yes ofc sometimes you have to waste a Brainstorm to get rid of them, and sometimes you just don't have the Brainstorm and die with a hand full of Miracles - but that's the deck. I am not quite sure how I was supposed to answer this question, sorry :D
Greetings
Meh. If you're floating Wear/Tear, then you have a Top, so it's basically just a 2 CMC that gives you the same grief that REB does against Wasteland.
Too simple?
My analysis is like this:
I want to destroy an artifact: It'll cost me 2 mana using W/T or Disenchant. 1-1
I want to destroy an Enchantment: W/T costs 1 mana, Disenchant costs 2. 2-1
I want to float a 2 to Counterbalance: 3-2
I want to float a 1 to Counterbalance: 4-2
Disenchant comes in Summer Magic, Alpha, and Beta: 4-4
W/T comes in Russian: 5-4
I think since it flips as 1 and 2 to Counterbalance, I'd rather have the W/T. If I want to destroy only an Enchantment, it's also one mana cheaper. If I NEED to dodge an opposing Counterbalance, I can Fuse to make it 3. Disenchant doesn't rely on red mana to do either, which is what I think the major concern is. I think overall, even with Summer Disenchants available, you've got to go with W/T if you're on the red plan.
I liked and disliked PV's article on Channel Fireball. The reasons:
1) 3/1 Terminus/Verdict split is fine. He doesn't address the fact that sometimes you need to hardcast your stuff if you can't Brainstorm/Top into a Terminus. The uncounterability vs. Spell Pierce range isn't REALLY the issue here. Plus, as someone suggested, you don't want to run 7 Miracles if you're running Entreat x3.
2) He says Entreat x3 is wrong. I disagree. I want to see that card all day, everyday. Even if it's just for small value Entreats on turns 3-5, the card is great. 3 might be too many in the maindeck, but overall, I think it's fine.
3) There's no sideboard against us, I disagree. I definitely don't want to see Teegs, Grip, Needles, EE/Deed, etc.
His tips at the end were quite useful for people who haven't played the deck much and were looking to get into it.
Canonist is both good and bad in a mirror situation. Sure, you counter all of their stuff, but it also means you're fighting through their counters on your turn as well, but I have liked Canonist against Storm and Sneak and such.
-Matt
The bottom line is how urgent do you need to Wear something? If you have the need to wear something ASAP, you need the consistency to produce red Mana, wear//tear just doesn't give you that consistency since you're vulnerable to Wastes. Adding a Mountain does not worth the SB slot, in my opinion. As to the cheaper Enchantment thing, what are the evil enchantments you need to get rid of ASAP? Sneak Attack? Omni? Choke? Blood Moon? For the first 2, it's too late anyway. For the Later 2, probably won't make a difference as long as you have one basic plains in play. Overall, I would go with Ein's Disenchant choice, not flashy but solid, as reliable as basic lands, it's Not inferior suggested by PV at all.
Verdict flips for 4 And it pitches to FoW, his assessment is kinda... meh~.
His assessment on EtA is skewed because he plays SFM package. Sure you can have both, but you don't want 3 EtA if you also run SFM.
I don't think that's what he means. He's saying that people don't go into a sizable tournament preparing SB specifically for Miracle. They might prepare for Blades and TNN, but not for EtA and/or Terminus.
I played W/T in the past, but after Philips success made me think about it more, I think disenchant is the right choice, as well as not running a basic mountain.
The W/T costing 1 and 2 is cute but it the situations where that comes up AND actually matters is probably like 1 in 200 games. Using both modes of the W/T also only comes up in like 1 of 200 games, usually against something like painter. Tear costing 1 probably matters even less, maybe in the enchantress matchup or against sylvan library decks? In all other situations Disenchant is better.
Basic artifact and enchantment hate are all people are really running, and it's normally just efficient, low impact 1-for-1's. I think that what he meant, whereas other decks have to contend with actual hate cards like Humility or Engineered Plague that hose their deck. That being said, I would consider cards like Winter Orb or Choke to be Miracles hate cards that we have to deal with or likely lose, so maybe his assessment was premature. Javier had this style of card, and more people may start adopting actual hate cards. I just had a guy side in a Nether Void, of all things, out of BUG Delver last week.
Hi guys, yesterday I played pretty much the stock list with Stoneforge package in sb (very similar to Philipp's list, only [-1 Stp, -1 Terminus, -1 Tundra, -1 CB] [+1 Jtms +1 Supreme Verdict +1 Island, +1 EtA] ) I won all the swiss rounds (2-1 vs Mono red Sneak Attack, 2-1 vs UR Burn, 2-1 vs UW Blade, 2-1 vs Elves!, 2-1 vs Imperial Painter) But I lost to 1-2 to Goblins in the quarterfinals. Mind you, I'm no Miracles pro and he's one of the (if not the) best Goblin pilot in Italy, but I'd like to know from more experienced players what you usually take out and in in this matchup. My sideboard was:
3 REB
3 RiP
2 Wear/ Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroclasm
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
I went -4 Force, -2 Pierce. +2 SFM +1 BSkull, +1 Sulfur Elemental +1 Pyroclasm, +1 Wear Tear.
My experience versus goblin is that IF (and it's a big if) the Goblin player is really competent with the deck, the matchup becomes really difficult. They don't really need a lot of creatures to put pressure on you (usually Piledriver +1 Goblin is more than enough) and they can rebuild a board presence extremely fast due to Vial and Matron/ Ringleader. Our only out is to grind out until you trigger multiple mid game Terminus/Supreme Verdict, then find a fast EtA immediately (which is the best plan versus any other swarm aggro deck, but against Goblins is mandatory and if you fail to find EtA during the small timeframe you have available, it's GG).
Do you have any detailed experience/info regarding this matchup?
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I play against a LOT of Painter, so I've had to run 2 W/T in the board. That deck can be really annoying...
-Matt
I've actually found the goblins matchup to be near unwinnable if the pilot is skilled and I am not running 1 E tutor and moat in the 75. Without moat the only time I have ever beat goblins is if I get the perfect set up and survive long enough to terminus during combat, and then immediately untap, replay top and then entreat in next combat phase for x<2. Basically all of your counters are dead and they usually refill immediately after board wipes and just play more guys with haste.
However, if moat is your 75 the matchup is a near unloseable. Cast moat, and if needed stps siege gang or prospecter/sharpshooter and you win.
I imagine having SFM actually makes the matchup much better, I have never tried her in miracles though. Batterskull is hard for them to beat.
My binder of white value waves hello!
That's why they now run at least 2 Tarfire md, in addition to 3-4 cyclers and Tin Street Hooligan...
But thanks for the heads up on Moat, I might give it a try again. I guess 1 of md with 1 E-tutor right?
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
These are Dangerous Dangerous Assumptions. It's unfair to discuss this without a Goblin list. How "White" is this competent Goblin player? Many Goblins are splashing White for Thalia, some even go as far as Thalia And Spirit of Labyrinth. Take James Miller SCG: Atlanta on March 2014 as example, it definitely has Grip against Moat/Humility. Even if SFM's in play, Goblin can still block Batterskull and sac before damage using Seige-gang. Even without Miller's list, it's still possible for them to have Pyrokinesis on SFM or Anarchy for anything White.
I've played a lot with 1 Moat MD and the E Tutor in the SB and with both in the SB. I liked them both in the SB better. Moat is better than verdict against decks like Jund, elves, fish, shardless BUG and goblins, but against the majority of decks verdict is better and it kind occupies a similar role in the deck. So I personally do 1-3 verdict/terminus MD and then if I want, moat I leave it in the SB. Honestly though, I think it is a meta call. I wouldn't run moat at like an SCG open, but at a smaller local place where one of the best players in the room is always on goblins, it might be a good call.
Also, with the Etutor in the SB. I don't go crazy running like 10 targets for it. Its basically just RIP #3 against dedicated GY decks, that also happens to be moat #2 against decks were I want moat and can get a top/CB against stuff like storm.
EDIT: You both are right about SFM. I was basing my assessment of the card off it's performance in esper stoneblade, were its not a huge deal if they kill the mystic and you can also get jitte.
Yeah my metagame is flooded with Goblins and Elves right now so that is certainly a good call.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Damn, foiled again. It's a tie, then.My binder of white value waves hello!
-Matt
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