To the extent this is true, I have no idea, but I have been told the meta game at pro tours are a bit different than normalOriginally Posted by Phoenix Ignition
That being said, there is still brewing to be done, and there probably is a good Bitterblossom/Wild Nacatl deck that hasn't been made yet, if halfway through modern season we are seeing nothing but Pod/Affinity/UWR, then we can discuss stale boring meta games.
And the most successful modern decks have a strong aggro backup plan since their combos are creature-tastic.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
Actually, a deck with Bitterblossom did make it into the Top 16 of the Grand Prix. You can see it here.
I think the situation we're in does actually mirror the beginning of the end for Vintage in some ways - decks are getting more and more expensive and supply of essential staples is limited. Sure, it isn't the P9, but the duals are and remain the bottleneck of the format, along with some other RL staples. E.g. Underground Sea hovers around 220$ for now (SCG is 250$ and out of stock) and Polluted Delta is 105$.
And it certainly doesn't help that the format Wizards dumps more and more dumb blue shit into format, forcing more and more people into blue, thus further increasing demand for blue staples and prices for those, making the format more and more expensive.
Once SCG decides to drop Legacy support, we're going to enter dark times.
That's the thing. Modern decks are having more combos in them but really UR storm, Griselbraned/fury of the horde and ad nauseum are the only real "true combo decks" I've seen in modern. Anything with pod or twin just look like creature based mid range decks with a combo thrown in them. A lot of the time I imagine they are just beating down with cliques, exarchs or kitchen finks while they sling lightning bolts or decays at problem cards. And Scapeshift is no more a combo deck that UWr Miracles is; its a control deck that wins with one big card (entreat/scapeshift) or it just beats with snapcasters.
Oh please....
If you look at the Top 16 of Richmond, where're the planeswalkers? 2 out of top 16 decks run that card type. If you look at the 443 decks that made day 2, only WUR Control 4% + Jund 5% + Obliterator Rock 4% + GB Rock 3% + (3+2)/2 = 2.5% of Zoo decks + 3% of Tron + 1% of WB token run planeswalkers, that's 22.5%.
Legacy gets to use Koth of the Hammer for God's sake, how cool is that? If Modern's really gonna become the format people go for, it has a long road ahead.
You missed my point. There was stated, that Modern offers MULTIPLES of DIFFERENT archetypes for Combo AND Control but all I see for months is Twin/Kiki, UWR burn.dec and a few Pyromancers Ascension that qualify for both mentioned strategies. That's not MULTIPLES if you ask me. That's bold advertising. Nothing more
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I fail to see how Planeswalker usage is an indicator for a good/healthy format. With that logic, Standard would be the best format ever since it's a massive Planeswalker circlejerk.
Splinter Twin used to be more of a combo deck in that it focused on just getting the combo together, but it's moved more towards a tempo strategy. The purpose of the deck is less about assembling the combo and more about threatening the combo, forcing your opponent to choose between trying to hold back their cards to stop in case you combo off or dealing with the creatures that attacking you right now.
Scapeshift is not a control deck. A control deck takes control of the game, and once it's done that, hits the opponent with something like Entreat the Angels or a Jace the Mind Sculptor to seal the deal. Scapeshift just wants to hold off the opponent for long enough to get its 8 lands together (or if it's on the Prismatic Omen plan, 6 lands) and cast Scapeshift . It doesn't care about taking control of the game; it just wants to survive long enough to cast its combo card and win.And Scapeshift is no more a combo deck that UWr Miracles is; its a control deck that wins with one big card (entreat/scapeshift) or it just beats with snapcasters.
I really think that the only thing that will both save the relative format we know as Legacy from purgatory and also rescue Modern from its blandness will be a gradual (or rapid, who knows) reprinting of non reserve list stuff. Eventually resulting in a format called "modern" or if WOTC gets some balls, they scrap "modern" and call it Legacy minus the reserve list. Then they support the hell out of it as it eventually solves two huge problems. Couple this with the unbanning of all the goodies on the "modern" ban list as well and you have a format that we can play into our 70's
Now everyone loses out on their duals, but we get all of the things that make Legacy what it really is; Karakas, Wasteland, Force of Will, Brainstorm, Hymn to Tourach, Show and Tell, Stifle, ONS fetches, all of the goblins that make goblins a deck and a bunch of other stuff. Basically close to overextended.
Sure we might lose Storm decks, Dredge, decks like MUD and Elves would take a hit, Moat, Tabernacle, High Tide etc.
I'm pretty sure 90% of legacy players would play this format initially, and eventually 95% would come around. probably 80% of modern players would play it, with another 10% coming around (if they get the reprint machines humming), and wizards could turn "Legacy Masters" into a once a year set, reprinting stuff, and using 20% ish of the set to introduce "new Legacy/modern" cards to help nudge the metagame (rather than ban hammering), thus printing themselves money, legally.
This is not a solution, it is a compromise , but it is what is best for the game, long-term.
Modern will kill Legacy. It's just a matter of time. This GP will be one of the steps to the end.
The best thing for the game, long-term, is for Hasbro to hire a sufficiently creative team of lawyers and cast Mulligan targeting the reserve list.
There will always, always be lots of people who want to play a competitive format that uses cards from Magic's entire history.
I stand by my statement
I don't play or follow Modern, so I can't comment on its growth or lack thereof. I can say with certainty that if it ever becomes anywhere near as difficult to play Legacy competitivly as it is to play Vintage competitivly, I will switch back to Vintage as my primary format. I don't think Modern alone can kill Legacy for the reason you've stated. But Modern and Vintage together can.
I don't want to take away from the success of the tourney, but my own 2 cents:
1) recent Pro Tour
2) spring break
3) SCG heavily promoting and supporting the event
4) good weather after weeks of shitty ass weather - people could travel
5) east coast
SCG themselves had set the cap at 5k people and they didn't really come close, so I think in some ways they were disappointed as to the turnout. But I think if they had it in a major city, like DC where people can fly to easily, I think they could have gotten another 500-1000, especially for people west of the Mississippi.
As to the effect on Legacy - prices of overlapping staples has been hurting. One of the few gaps in my collection are full playsets of Zendikar fetches (I have 2-3 of each, since I try to spread out my fetch bases to make it less obvious) and the prices are getting painful to fill them out. I think that the lesson I've learned from picking up and subsequently unloading extra Onslaught fetch sets is that there's a pretty predictable pattern of value, and it can be invested against for gain. I even think shocklands are a worthwhile investment, because while they likely won't be $50, there will still be some amount of appreciation for them because they are fetchable. I wouldn't have thought Wastelands would go from $3 uncommon when Standard-legal to $100 card now. Rishadan Ports were always expensive because they existed in a block and Standards where they ran in every single deck, but they have held up surprisinginly well for only really being wanted in 2-3 decks. Tarmogoyf has continually doubled in price over the few years. Cards like Restoration Angel and Snapcaster Mage have a possibility of appreciating a lot because they are powerful and likely won't see reprints for a while.
four whole pages and none of you slammed the OP on affect/effect? for shame. /quitstheseforums
@warfordium on twitter.
Probably a good time to go over this:
1. "Affect" is usually a verb.
2. "Effect" is usually a noun.
3. If you're not sure whether you should invoke one of the exceptions to rules (1) and (2), you probably aren't aware of the other meanings.
If we start to discuss typos and stuff rather than substance, this forum would have never evolved past the first 10 threads
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Eh, I noticed it but realized that the subject matter was more important than a word misuse. It IS quite jarring, though, and is second only to "could of," "should of, "and "would of" as one of my English pet peeves.
Agreed. There's a level of majesty to the pre-8th edition cards that you can only experience (non casually) in Eternal formats. I tried to get into Modern in the past and I'm currently trying to get into it now but the format just doesn't have the same feel. Legacy and Vintage just lets you do so many cool and powerful things and Modern either just lacks that or has them sitting on the banned list. Again, I'm glad that Modern exists, but Legacy and Vintage should exist too.
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