If I had to make a stab, I'd say that the strength of the BBD build is less about Thopters and more about SFM being really strong right now. SFM seems good in mirror and good against Liliana decks. I'd probably not run SFM maindeck, but playing them SBed Paulo Vitor style (GP Paris) seems potentially appealing.
I'd also be interested to hear about how the deck performed with less Spell Pierces (of the 4 Miracles decks, two ran 1, one ran 0, and one ran 2). Less Swords to Plowshares and less Spell Pierces. More REBs (despite a relatively large portion of the top 16 being non-Blue).
I'm rather curious what you guys think the strongest hate cards are against UW/x miracles? Lately, at my local shop, the meta has been almost 40% miracles lists, to the point where they've inbred to running three (or in one case, FOUR) blasts main. I'm a long-time lands pilot, and while I've had little to no trouble dealing with Jace's resolving (I run a tarpit, a punishing fire package, AND an oblivion stone), the only consistent threat that's been a problem is the EOT -->entreat for 8-10 angels and kill me. Normally, I'm perfectly fine dealing with the occasional miracles list since it's already at worst a 50-50 matchup, but lately seeing SOO many miracles lists locally week in and week out, I feel like I need a solid trump. I've considered going old-school with a mindslaver since I'm already on academy ruins, but I figured I'd ask if anyone else has thoughts on a playable trump over miracles?
The Seattle area is full of mages, which I think influenced both Joe's and Adam's choices, though in different directions.
Replacing Swords with REBs is a concession to True-Name I suppose, while also having relevance against combo (which I've heard is more prevalent in LA). But to me it seems suboptimal in general. In Seattle it looked like blue decks were feeding on blue decks in the top half of the tables (and of course in the "Miracles" draw bracket, where Lands and similar decks also tend to be looming). It was inevitable there would be a lot of blue in the top 16, but this sort of inbreeding also opens avenues for other decks.
With so much Miracles in the meta (I think I saw a Miracles match next to me for most of the tournament, although I only played against it one round, where my opponent scooped the match due to mental exhaustion after losing game 1– I was on esperblade). Abrupt Decay decks were having a field day. Adam is a trooper and probably one of the best if not the best control mages in this area.
I agree that Stoneforge is strong right now. Equipment is pretty strong against Miracles' game plan by allowing a small attack force to apply a lot of pressure. It's especially good if people are cutting their Swords to Plowshares for red blasts!
Relying on just Entreats to take the game home is a very risky proposition IMO, although if I were currently on Miracles I'd also still RIP/Helm at least from the board, as that has an oops I win factor, and could also fair well in a non-Helm mirror (imagine boarding out the Thopter Sword combo for RIP/Helm; your opponent may be helping you by bringing in their own RIP).
6-3 is not shaky. Sure we all aim high, but that's respectable.Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac
No, just no.
I think Nilla was referring to how he felt he played all day, rather than his 6-3 finish. It's a very good finish, but it's crap when you look back and just go "How did I lose that?" and you know you could've done better. Happened to me in Paris. Ended 5-3-1 (fucking draw piece of shit) and after talking with my friends about how I should've approached my opponent in the draw game, and how horribly I played in my first 2 matches, and how badly I boarded in the final round I knew I should've done better. I remember my R2 being something like a 70-30 in my head and totally punting it because I just wasn't ready to play Magic properly at that point, and having only ever played as BUG Delver, never against it, I felt like my final round should've gone better, but I decided to just remove all of my answers for his major threats from my deck.
Just yesterday I didn't mulligan a 1-lander down to 5 in Merfolk for absolutely no reason other than "I'll probably get there" or whatever.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Yeah, I'm starting to feel like more of my losses are coming from "frame of mind" and focus rather than anything else. Going to a tournament distracted by personal problems and other outside issues is probably the number one reason I drop games. This deck is very unforgiving if you aren't in a very clear state of mind.
I've started keeping Canadian built for the days when I show up to legacy hungover. Miracles is definitely not the deck to play if you're not 100% ready to face the day.
Are you on Miracles yourself? If so, Venser was great in the mirror, as are REB's. I've also like Unexpectedly Absent in the mirrors.
If you're on some other deck, Pithing Needle, Liliana, Gaddock Teeg, and Percicious Deed/EE are all good choices.
-----------
I played Miracles at SCG Seattle as well and went 3-3-1 drop. A play mistake put me into the draw bracket (also, my opponent would not concede even though the game was totally locked up and he had NO way to win) and I tilted a bit after that. Then I had to play a friend and lost, so I dropped once I hit 3 losses. I liked the deck, and I liked how UA performed all day.
-Matt
Any news about the Legacy Championship in Vienna?
mtglegacy.blog.hu
mtgvintage.blog.hu
What news are there supposed to be? Did I miss something?
It's on Sunday, with an entry fee of 15 euro.
Admin opens at 9:00
Tournament starts at: 11:00
At the last GP Vienna there were Swiss-Rounds only, without Top8. I finished 2nd from 65 people and got 50 euro.... So yeah, the price payout is more than shitty - but hey, it's Legacy :) If I don't D2 the GP I'll take part in the Championship for sure!
See you there! Anyone else from this thread going?
Greetings
Considering that I used to post in here a lot, do I count?
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
You do. I did not forget your glorious past, when we stood side by side, pushing the best deck to fame and popularity. This was before you left the us for those little green men living in the woods.
But I knew you'd be coming, anyways :D
Greetings
Why nobody plays unexpectedly absent in this deck? It deals with nasty non creature permanents like Liliana.
The question is where to slot it. Theoretically it could take the spot of early countermagic (spellpierce or REB), or else you could slot it into the 2cmc slot in place of something like Counterspell...
I'm trying it out and its been good for problematic permanents, but sometimes its just dead weight in my hand instead of being a much-needed counter.
We have counterspells, pierces and fows but nothing against non creature permanents (I don't include explosives here because they are slow) I'd like to read the opinion of people that has done heavy testing like Philipp. His snapcaster focused version seems great to include them but maybe the double white mana cost is too much for a heavy blue deck like this in a wasteland dominated meta.
Detention Sphere is actually really good and doesn't require your opponent to crack a Fetch to be cast. It's also a 3 which we have even less of than 2's, which are important for Lilianas and TNN's.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
I think that running entreat necessitates having double white on the board at some point anyway, does it not?
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
Super short tournament experience.
For this event at my LGS, I decided to give my new hero - Ein’s list a shot, moving away from that famous miracle streamer’s list for a change. I don’t favor one or the other; however, I do feel like Ein’s list would allow me to play faster, avoiding draws. The only changes I made was swapping a Terminus from Main with the Verdict from the SB. I did this so I have more CMC 4 in case of flipping against opponent’s Sneak Attack or Jace.
Painter
I don’t get to play against Painter much in my area, but I did watch lots of this MU on the miracle stream. This guy promptly named Blue off Painter, turning on my Blasts as well as his, but he never had a shot.
Esper Stoneblade
50 minutes of grinding. I won first and second was a draw. Runed Halo doing work on TNN.
Zoo
This is interesting. At one point, he had Teeg and Spirit of Labyrinth. I had to Disenchant the Spirit, StP the Teeg, then Brainstorm to set up. He also Bolted my Clique before I can use it to block, I stabilized at 2. Fortunately did not get Bolted out of the game without CB, raced his life total using Angels.
Storm
With CB in play, he didn’t have a shot. Without CB in play, he ran into my wall of counters, as well as Clique-ing his tutor away.
Death blade
At some point, I played Snapcaster to flashback a removal and he allowed it. That’s when I knew his hand was trash. I started playing bombs like Jace and Entreat, it was over. In the next game, Halo’s doing work against TNN again.
Goblin
Bad, I was able to chain Snapcaster and StP to win a game. SB game he’s actually a Death and Taxes (Thalia and Spirit) splashing Red for Blasts and some uncounterable Goblins. He blasted my Snapcasters to stop the possible flashback StP and I could not find a mass removal after game 1.
Overall, I’m impressed with Halo, it’s never a dead card. Ein's list is fine, might make changes to the SB though.
Congratz on the result, twndomn. Losing to Goblins is fine :)
I'll take my GP list -1 Flusterstorm +1 Vendilion Clique to the GP in Vienna, as I havn't started testing REBs yet.
On Unexpectedly Absent.... it's a good card, and as mentioned it's the good old slot-problem. But let me be more clear by outlining serveral points that discourage me from playing this card:
1) WW is a serious issue, as we can't always use this card as a lategame-trump. Sometimes you need to cast it fast, which you cannot.
2) The effect is powerful indeed, hitting pretty much everything is very good and should be very close to what a Controldeck needs. But most of the time it doesn't really get rid of the card. Unless you cast it in response to a shuffle effect or X=a lot this card will only be a Subindicate (Submerge+Vindicate). But Submerge is a good card in some decks, you may say. Correct - in Tempo-variants. Decks that can use the short window (1-3 turns) where the evil card isn't into play. They can beat face with Tarmogoyf, threatening a soon death and invalidating the value of some of the bounced cards. Miracles cannot pressure the opponent. But, and I am very well aware of the fact, Miracle can follow up the UA with a powerful card like Counterbalance or Jace, the Mind Sculptor. But I cannot think of a lot of cards that need to be removed before deploying those cards. In short: UA is good and versatile, but only living up to its full potential when followed up by something, or while adhering a constant stream of pressure.
3) It is preferable to fight over problematic cards via the stack, as many of Legacys permanents do something once they hit the battlefield.
4) If there was a hard-to-counter permanent that would wreck our gameplan I'd instantly play the card, but as pretty much every MU is either a good MU or winable I don't see a reason to play the card. On the other hand - if this card would interfere with Sneak Attacks [one of the most uncomfortable MUs in nowadays metagame(on the top tables)] I'd be in! As it does not, I don't see a reason.
5) The good old slot-problem. Where do you want to squeeze this card in? This interferes very closely with #4, you could find slots, if there was a need to, as the need isn't there, there are no slots.
I hope I have been clear, if this shouldn't be the case, feel free to ask again, with a more detailed question.
Greetings
I went to my first tournament with Miracles at GP Montreal. It was a win-a-box. Apparently 2-0ed my first two rounds and split the box because I wanted to go home. My list was essentially the same as the list that top 4ed GP Paris.
Round 1 vs RUG Delver
Game 1: This was an extremely long game. I played top turn one, dispatched a couple of his threats, and later resolved a Jace and ultimated him for the win.
Game 2: I play a turn one top, he plays a turn one ponder. The game goes back and forth between me playing land drops and him resolving a couple threats. I terminus his threats away and play a rest in peace. I resolve jace and ultimate him, just like the first game.
Round 2 vs Elves
Game 1: The game goes back and forth with him playing creatures and me cantripping. I vendillion clique him seeing a hand with a bunch of elves and a natural order. I obviously snag the natural order and he plays more elves. I cast an entreat for 3 about 2-3 turns later and he can't deal enough to kill me.
Game 2: He plays an elf, I play a top. He plays symbiote into visionary, and turn two, I resolve a counterbalance. I terminus away his board and land a jace a few turns later. Because the amount of lands he has out consisted of gaea's cradle and bayou, and I had the countertop lock, he could not cast anything and died to Jace ultimate.
Round 3 vs Tin Fins
This match actually did not happen considering I split the box with him. He gave me the free event coupon and I went back to my hotel room. The list ran very smoothly, and I got good matchups. I guess it was just my day.
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