Miracle Control

[kingtk3]

As a reanimator player I think that miracles is one of reanimator's worst matchups. In g1 reanimator has a little more chances, but in g2 and 3 miracles has all the cards to beat reanimator: swords, rip, countertop, flusterstorm, medling (for those who play it), karakas... you need to beat a wall of counters and, probably, use s&t (because of rip) to put into play a creature that will soon die to a swords or terminus or karakas.
The best creature to have in play is inkwell leviathan, which still dies to terminus, but it's a one of that you can't tutor for if rip is in play.

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

[Dzra]

Miracles should definitely be heavily favored against Reanimator, but just like any explosive combo deck, Reanimator has plenty of potential to just get there before we have enough mana to stop them. I think that the current flavor of Reanimator decks running additional acceleration (Lotus Petal and even Show and Tell) are much better set up to beat us than the more disruption-heavy versions. Once we have enough mana to dig in then they are fighting a very uphill battle.

[Pelikanudo]

Hello,

I've been playing Miracles until the age of A.Decay, and now I was thinking in going back to playing it for a while and see at developed strategies vs A.Decay decks and the meta in general, I've been looking at the primer and the last few pages but they didnt revealed me anything or few so I would need for help about Guides - How to side as a start about this archetype of deck which seems the currently main core:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13178&iddeck=96709

I've seen the other archetype which is also fine, but I woud prefer to not to play ponder - portent in a control Shell.

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13065&iddeck=95895

I would recomend to change the primer if possible as for example TES or BURG threads, which are constantly updated and this is not ages ago...

[Einherjer]

Back from GP Vienna, played horribly at both the Mainevent and the Legacy event, plus in the end I left early cause I felt sick. Nontheless the GP was great fun!

I did cut Karakas (22nd land) for a Ponder (3rd) one while switching a Flusterstorm in the Sideboard for a Vendilion Clique. I am pretty sure the Fluster-Clique change is correct. Not too sure on going on 21 land and 3 Ponder. What I gotta admit though is one thing:

I said Levys version is bad. As the time I spent working on this deck has trespassed millions of hours and events I have moved from 0 Ponder to 3 Ponder already. It is still very possible that I will add the 4th Ponder, should I find the slots to. So I was wrong on this aspect!

Just short because I am feeling pretty sick... The more comfortable you get with cantripping and Miracle as a whole Ponder becomes better and better. At least for me it feels like this card is just too good. 2 is just the bottom line, for sure.

On the primer.... I hesitated to write the primer twice because alphastryk said he is writing one. As I haven't received an article schedule from MTG Madness yet I am free for this week - if I feel good enough to write tomorrow I'll start doing my work. The plan is about 5k+ words as a minimum.

Greetings

[alphastryk]

Sorry for the delays on the primer, real life has kept me pretty busy lately. I'll plan to just publish what I have today or tomorrow and let someone else with more time take over.

[goblinsplayer]

Hello, I just have started playing the deck and are there some things I should be aware of before I take this deck to a tournament? Asides from playing a lot of games?

[cschacal]

Get ready to draw a lot of matches if you are not fast taking decisions.

[thecrav]

Get ready to draw a lot of matches if you are not fast taking decisions.

^^^ This so hard^^^

When you top, know what you're looking for. That'll save you a helluva lot of time.

[Dzra]

Get ready to draw a lot of matches if you are not fast taking decisions.

I was talking to someone about this earlier today. A few things help, Topping quickly being one of the big ones.
Basically, in order to Top quickly you have to ask yourself this set of questions:

1. If I have Counterbalance or will soon be playing Counterbalance, what CMC(s) do I most want on top of my library?

Once you know this, every time you Top, you are simply evaluating the third card down and deciding if you'd rather draw it or if it should replace one of the two cards you are floating. Most of the time, you are simply putting a land or excess 1 CMC on top and then into your hand.

2. Is there any Miracle card that I'd like to draw, and if so, would I rather draw it during my draw step or during my opponent's turn?

If not then move it down (unless you'd rather draw it to preserve the CMCs on top). If so, then does it gain you anything by using the Miracle during your own turn? Most likely, you will be casting it during their turn, so you'd rather leave it second from the top.

3. Am I looking for something specific (a counter, a threat, or removal)?

4. Am I tapping out during my next turn or my opponent's next turn? If so, what card do I want to draw two turns from now?

Now all this might be easier said than done, but knowing the right questions to ask yourself should help keep you thinking about your own plays and responses while your opponent is busy durdling around. Other than Topping/Cantripping more efficiently, just performing your normal actions quickly will also help. Everything from fetching to tapping/untapping lands eats up slivers of time. Shortcut when you can and don't spend a decade thinking about what land you want (Hint: It's probably a Basic).

[klaus]

Back from GP Vienna, played horribly at both the Mainevent and the Legacy event, plus in the end I left early cause I felt sick. Nontheless the GP was great fun!

I did cut Karakas (22nd land) for a Ponder (3rd) one while switching a Flusterstorm in the Sideboard for a Vendilion Clique. I am pretty sure the Fluster-Clique change is correct. Not too sure on going on 21 land and 3 Ponder. What I gotta admit though is one thing:

I said Levys version is bad. As the time I spent working on this deck has trespassed millions of hours and events I have moved from 0 Ponder to 3 Ponder already. It is still very possible that I will add the 4th Ponder, should I find the slots to. So I was wrong on this aspect!

Just short because I am feeling pretty sick... The more comfortable you get with cantripping and Miracle as a whole Ponder becomes better and better. At least for me it feels like this card is just too good. 2 is just the bottom line, for sure.

On the primer.... I hesitated to write the primer twice because alphastryk said he is writing one. As I haven't received an article schedule from MTG Madness yet I am free for this week - if I feel good enough to write tomorrow I'll start doing my work. The plan is about 5k+ words as a minimum.

Greetings

I do agree on Ponders being superb here, though I believe 2 is the correct number. What I especially like about them: 2-3 Ponders justify 3-ofs (e. g. STP).

[YamiJoey]

I've been playing Preordains, and they're doing really well. They're better alongside any other Spell in your deck (ie Brainstorm and Top) and better in multiples. On their own they do see one less card if the top 3 are blank, but you have more versatility, as you don't have to shuffle, you get to keep one and ditch the other.

[zerzab11]

I've been playing Preordains, and they're doing really well. They're better alongside any other Spell in your deck (ie Brainstorm and Top) and better in multiples. On their own they do see one less card if the top 3 are blank, but you have more versatility, as you don't have to shuffle, you get to keep one and ditch the other.

In a deck with 9-11 Fetchlands I think Ponder is much stronger. Ponder makes it easier, as mentioned above, to dig for your 2 and 3ofs, too.

@21 Lands: Although I've thought of cutting the Karakas as well I can't see myself playing with one land less. Would be happy if you could share your insights after further testing!

[Einherjer]

In a deck with 9-11 Fetchlands I think Ponder is much stronger. Ponder makes it easier, as mentioned above, to dig for your 2 and 3ofs, too.

@21 Lands: Although I've thought of cutting the Karakas as well I can't see myself playing with one land less. Would be happy if you could share your insights after further testing!

Yep, sure. I'll do test the Canadian Threshold and the Death and Taxes - MU as much as I can, as those two are the ones where 21 lands should be the biggest downside. If I don't lose more games than normal due to land-screw I'll be def. bringing 21 lands to the Bazaar of Moxen. I know it will be hard to determine whether or not this match could have won with more lands, but I'll just play a non-altered Ponder in that slot, just to be sure. Maybe I'll even cut the MB Clique for the 4th Ponder.

Well, anyways - testing will be delayed as I am feeling sicker and sicker right now - this means no primer from me too, I'll just let Alphastryk finish it, whenever he wants. On the upside though I am proud to announce that by the end of April two Articles about Miracles will be published on MTG Madness. Marc Vogt will write about the MUs and Sideboardingplans while I will be focusing on the process of building Miracles, and/or something else I am not sure about.

Greetings

[Parcher]

I need some advice.

I think it's pretty obvious now that Miracles has become a fixture in most metagames, and it's fair to say that overall it is a bad matchup for Dredge. Now one of the main reasons is that even with the reduced number of MD RiP, Miracles still has 8 cards that effectively exile Dredge's creatures. Which makes it one of the very few decks that have a favorable Game One against Dredge. Fortunately, Miracles only brings 3-4 cards in from the SB, and those games are where I am looking for help.

One of the tenets of sideboarding for tournaments, is that you don't cut percentages in your favorable matchups to add to your unfavorable. That is, you don't take a 60% favor to 55%, to make a 40% into a 45% win. However, with the current uptick in Miracles presence, and it's difficulty, I'm willing to attempt it.

I have a SB that has cut some of the singletons, and shaved a few of the more generic cards, to increase my game against Miracles. However, the place it lacks now is against some of the Blue Tempo decks. Which traditionally have been quite favorable for Dredge.

My question is this; From the Miracles player's perspective, are you more concerned about a Dredge player blowing you out one turns one-two, or their having ways to shut down your engine and Hate? I can either run the SB with Needles for Top, and a robust removal package for RiP, that cuts down on stuff like Firestorm and some singletons to attempt to deal with Miracles directly, or I have a SB that still runs some anti-hate, and plenty for the Tempo matchup, that also can SB into the best turn one-two version I've ever made, for the Combo and non-Blue matchups. But does have the "lose to Force" vulnerability. Basically, I'm unsure if it's worth (slightly)nerfing my SB to attempt to attack Miracles on it's axis of attack against me, or just turn into Belcher against them, and hope to get there. Normally, agaisnt a clock so slow, I'd be fine doing so. Against decks like Ravitz's EsperBlade, it's always been fine. But in my experience against Miracles, 4 out of 5 games end up a blowout one way or the other(usually in Miracles favor), and what has happened it that post-board it's my hands that become too slow.

[Einherjer]

Just very short from me: The best way to beat Miracles with Dredge is to exlode into their head and hope they don't have the Terminus and do it before the RIP becomes online. You will not win the long fight, atleast if you plan to spend less than 15 cards on the MU :D

Greetings

[twndomn]

My question is this; From the Miracles player's perspective, are you more concerned about a Dredge player blowing you out one turns one-two, or their having ways to shut down your engine and Hate? I can either run the SB with Needles for Top, and a robust removal package for RiP, that cuts down on stuff like Firestorm and some singletons to attempt to deal with Miracles directly, or I have a SB that still runs some anti-hate, and plenty for the Tempo matchup, that also can SB into the best turn one-two version I've ever made, for the Combo and non-Blue matchups. But does have the "lose to Force" vulnerability. Basically, I'm unsure if it's worth (slightly)nerfing my SB to attempt to attack Miracles on it's axis of attack against me, or just turn into Belcher against them, and hope to get there. Normally, agaisnt a clock so slow, I'd be fine doing so. Against decks like Ravitz's EsperBlade, it's always been fine. But in my experience against Miracles, 4 out of 5 games end up a blowout one way or the other(usually in Miracles favor), and what has happened it that post-board it's my hands that become too slow.

You didn't mention you're on Manaless dredge or regular dredge. Those builds are different.

MOD EDIT: His question was legitimate as he is trying to get some perspective from the other side of the matchup. In the future, please keep the snark to yourself and just address the question at hand - or ignore it if you don't feel it's appropriate. Thanks.

[Cynicath]

I recently started playing Miracles (Ein's list -Verdict, -Disenchant, +Moat, +Wear//Tear) and I'm having a blast so far, but my local meta is riddled with BUG decks (Shardless and Delver). Which build would you more experienced pilots recommend in a meta like this, and do you have any general tips in the matchup? I particularly struggle with a resolved Lily. My initial thoughts are to trade some number of FOWs for Misdirections to deal with Hymn and Decay, and to make room for Pithing Needles in the board...

[JPoJohnson]

You didn't mention you're on Manaless dredge or regular dredge. Those builds are different.

MOD EDIT: His question was legitimate as he is trying to get some perspective from the other side of the matchup. In the future, please keep the snark to yourself and just address the question at hand - or ignore it if you don't feel it's appropriate. Thanks.

First off, it's Parcher. He runs LED Dredge.

Second, he mentioned Firestorm. I doubt Manaless would use that in the sideboard.

[Cipher]

I need some advice.

I think it's pretty obvious now that Miracles has become a fixture in most metagames, and it's fair to say that overall it is a bad matchup for Dredge. Now one of the main reasons is that even with the reduced number of MD RiP, Miracles still has 8 cards that effectively exile Dredge's creatures. Which makes it one of the very few decks that have a favorable Game One against Dredge. Fortunately, Miracles only brings 3-4 cards in from the SB, and those games are where I am looking for help.

One of the tenets of sideboarding for tournaments, is that you don't cut percentages in your favorable matchups to add to your unfavorable. That is, you don't take a 60% favor to 55%, to make a 40% into a 45% win. However, with the current uptick in Miracles presence, and it's difficulty, I'm willing to attempt it.

I have a SB that has cut some of the singletons, and shaved a few of the more generic cards, to increase my game against Miracles. However, the place it lacks now is against some of the Blue Tempo decks. Which traditionally have been quite favorable for Dredge.

My question is this; From the Miracles player's perspective, are you more concerned about a Dredge player blowing you out one turns one-two, or their having ways to shut down your engine and Hate? I can either run the SB with Needles for Top, and a robust removal package for RiP, that cuts down on stuff like Firestorm and some singletons to attempt to deal with Miracles directly, or I have a SB that still runs some anti-hate, and plenty for the Tempo matchup, that also can SB into the best turn one-two version I've ever made, for the Combo and non-Blue matchups. But does have the "lose to Force" vulnerability. Basically, I'm unsure if it's worth (slightly)nerfing my SB to attempt to attack Miracles on it's axis of attack against me, or just turn into Belcher against them, and hope to get there. Normally, agaisnt a clock so slow, I'd be fine doing so. Against decks like Ravitz's EsperBlade, it's always been fine. But in my experience against Miracles, 4 out of 5 games end up a blowout one way or the other(usually in Miracles favor), and what has happened it that post-board it's my hands that become too slow.

I definitely don't fear Needle on Top. Or Nature's Claim on Rest in Peace. It sucks to be the "Belcher" guy but Dredge's highest percentages have to be coming from the games where you just have it. Cabal Therapy is a better answer to RIP than Nature's Claim and I liked the Unmasks you ran at the GP a while back.

MOD EDIT: Counter-snark removed. Let's not get started with this.

[Malakai]

As a miracles player against dredge, post-board literally all we care about is resolving Rest in Peace. Top is scarcely part of the engine in that matchup. We can find some way of killing you.

Put another way, I am not concerned with Dredge being a better control deck.

You refer to miracles with MD RiP, but I considered Dredge to be one of Miracles' best matchups before RiP had even been printed, and we were just using Relics out of the board.

I guess I'm rambling. To answer you question directly, the longer the game goes, the less concerned I am. "Therapy on Rest in Peace, try to combo" seems like a stronger plan than "Pithing Needle on SDT."