Miracle Control

[jbeam]

Hi Miracles pilots - quick question for you. Could Scalding Tarn be replaced by Misty or Delta? Is the only value grabbing the sideboarded Mountain that some lists run?

Thanks!

[TheArchitect]

Hi Miracles pilots - quick question for you. Could Scalding Tarn be replaced by Misty or Delta? Is the only value grabbing the sideboarded Mountain that some lists run?

Thanks!

I have tried tarns/mountain but didn't like it, and I know Einherjer and others as well would agree. I've always just run polluted deltas since I don't even own tarns. I also feel like I must get some subtle advantage when I go turn 1 crack delta, grab basic island, cast ponder since my opponent probably would not put me on miracles.


Congrats Valtrix, I kind of forgot that punishing fire was an option for miracles, I will have to give it a try at some point. Blowing up PW and having infinite removal seems pretty nice. Any changes you would make to the list?

[Valtrix]

Yep, the only extra value would be hitting a potential basic mountain. Not a lot of lists even run that anyway (I don't like it), so you'd be fine playing any blue fetch.

I definitely recommend trying out fire/groves. It's a lot of fun to play with and helps a ton to lock up the game and shot down lilianas + Jaces. As for my particular list, I was really happy with the main and wouldn't change that for now. My sideboard was very solid except for the misdirection. In original iterations of my build I had more blue cards, but I realized (too late) that the matchups where I really wanted it I was bringing out too many blue cards for Misdirection to really be worthwhile. Otherwise it's a nice force of will for combo matchups, but as a sideboard card I could easily play another counterspell. I'm not sure exactly what I need most right now though. I'd consider the 4th balance the most right now probably, so I have more ways to interact with the stack and another bomb against Miracles. I should be favored in the miracles mirror, but that match revolved around balances each time I played it (outside of the tournament too).

[jbeam]

Thanks, guys!

[amalek0]

Punishing miracles... That is not something I've ever seen or thought of. Punishing fire is easily my favorite reason for continuing to pilot lands, I may have to sleeve up a UW/r/g miracles list. The access to EE for 4 seems potent, and not having to rely on jace + entreat to get there seems great. I absolutely detest clique, one reason why I've always kind of stayed away from piloting miracles (besides, every TRUE control deck is perfectly happy winning in turns game 1 on the back of mox diamond recursion...)

[twndomn]

Punishing miracles... That is not something I've ever seen or thought of. Punishing fire is easily my favorite reason for continuing to pilot lands, I may have to sleeve up a UW/r/g miracles list. The access to EE for 4 seems potent, and not having to rely on jace + entreat to get there seems great. I absolutely detest clique, one reason why I've always kind of stayed away from piloting miracles (besides, every TRUE control deck is perfectly happy winning in turns game 1 on the back of mox diamond recursion...)

There're very little reasons to set EE at 4. I would also argue that you don't need SFM packages if you're already running PFire packages. I would easily turn the 2 SFM into 2 Ponders, use another EtA for that BSkull slot.

Clique is the best creature in Miracles, according to the school of Lossett. Even if you run the Snapcaster build, Clique is still in your 75 somewhere, you cannot get away from it. If you don't have it in your Miracle 75, your build is probably inferior.

[Malakai]

There're very little reasons to set EE at 4. I would also argue that you don't need SFM packages if you're already running PFire packages. I would easily turn the 2 SFM into 2 Ponders, use another EtA for that BSkull slot.

Clique is the best creature in Miracles, according to the school of Lossett. Even if you run the Snapcaster build, Clique is still in your 75 somewhere, you cannot get away from it. If you don't have it in your Miracle 75, your build is probably inferior.

I always felt like Clique is this card you have to play because nothing else fits in the slot.

[amalek0]

There're very little reasons to set EE at 4. I would also argue that you don't need SFM packages if you're already running PFire packages. I would easily turn the 2 SFM into 2 Ponders, use another EtA for that BSkull slot.

Clique is the best creature in Miracles, according to the school of Lossett. Even if you run the Snapcaster build, Clique is still in your 75 somewhere, you cannot get away from it. If you don't have it in your Miracle 75, your build is probably inferior.

I'm not sure exactly why, maybe it's the fact that I'm primarily a lands pilot, but I've never really felt that clique was really relevant in the miracles matchup from my side--Perhaps clique is far more amazing in other matchups, but to me it's always appeared to be a durdle engine in a deck that already has jace and the top/cb lock.

[Valtrix]

Here are the main reasons I like Clique. The first is that I really want some 3cc for counterbalance. It is blue, which is always a plus. These are are not unique for Clique of course, but it means I'm looking for 3cc (preferably blue) card to fit my deck. Secondly, we have a ton of high value cards like balance, Jace and Entreat. We really want to be able to play those spells, so using Clique to gain information is very powerful. The 3/1 body is not irrelevant -- you can sometimes trade with an opponent's creature, so Clique can sometimes be awkward removal. But more relevantly, you actually have a body to attack. It also comes down at instant speed so Clique helps give you a little bit more control over fighting planeswalkers. You can Clique yourself when you have bad cards in a particular matchup, or perhaps a miracle, effectively netting you a card.

The Karakas/Clique interaction is cute, but has never been relevant for me. The above reasons are why I like Clique, but the real reason I run the card is that it's simply the best effect (or at least one of) we can play against unfair decks, while still being relevant in almost every matchup. Gaining a clock, information and disruption all at instant speed makes Clique invaluable here. Without Clique the unfair matchups are a lot harder in my experience, since your opponent will have years to go off in most cases.

[Cipher]

I always felt like Clique is this card you have to play because nothing else fits in the slot.

Miracles is a deck with a pile of bombs. Jace is a bomb, Counterbalance is a (relatively cheap) bomb, Entreat the Angels is a bomb. Against tempo decks you can use Clique to force through these bombs, while putting out a blocker. Against combo, I'd possibly play 4x Clique if I could.

[Adryan]

Any thoughts about the new UR God?

I think it's a decent SB card for us. Good against all the grindy MU's like Shardless BUG, Jund, Death and Taxes etc. I would even board it in against BUG Delver because games tend to go very long and they don't have softcounters beside Daze.

[kiblast]

Miracles is a deck with a pile of bombs. Jace is a bomb, Counterbalance is a (relatively cheap) bomb, Entreat the Angels is a bomb. Against tempo decks you can use Clique to force through these bombs, while putting out a blocker. Against combo, I'd possibly play 4x Clique if I could.

Word. You never have enough Cliques. Uber good probably in any matchup. Karakas trick is a plus and sometimes you don't need it.Clique has the sheer power of being one of the best clock/disruption spell/ blocker all combined in one card.

I'm not sure exactly why, maybe it's the fact that I'm primarily a lands pilot, but I've never really felt that clique was really relevant in the miracles matchup from my side--Perhaps clique is far more amazing in other matchups, but to me it's always appeared to be a durdle engine in a deck that already has jace and the top/cb lock.

Well, I've had good times taking your life from the loams at the end of draw step… but that's basically it in this matchup. But you can't judge a card just by the utility in one corner case matchup which is not widely played…

Any thoughts about the new UR God?

I'll link the image for everyone to judge.


First of all, I absolutely love the card design. I love the fact that this guy is actually good without devotion. At cc5 I don't know if it is legacy material. If it was a 3/4 at cc4 I'd instaplay it in the main deck… I love tinkering with unusual card choices in miracles as I think the deck has a decent number of slots you can fill with awesomeness. I was playing Sacred Mesa for a while lol. Going to give it a try and maybe play it as a 1-of against grindy match ups.
Ninja Edit: I bet this guy is going to be amazing foiled.

[Dzra]

At 5cmc, the God is unlikely to see much play. I'd probably always rather have 2 Angels at Instant speed.

And Clique is amazing for all the reasons that others have stated, but especially because hand disruption is so uncommon in our colors. The ability to replace cards out of our own hand is just that much sweeter when we have so many powerful but situational tools like REB, stranded Miracles, potentially useless spot removal, and FoWs floating around in our deck.

[twndomn]

I don't understand why we are discussing Keranos in Miracle thread, sounds like SCD topic to me, you can find it a home via that way.

As to the card itself, Modern material to me, if anything. The most playable card from the Gods for Legacy is still Thassa, just because its cmc is 3.

[Adryan]

If you already have 2 Entreat the Angels and 4 Terminus in your MD and prefer to not play 7 Miracle spells after SB, this card is a reasonable choice. I think discussing a completely new card that can be played as a 1of in the SB is more reasonable in this thread than to talk about the usefulness of Clique in Miracles. Which should be kind of obvious...

Edit: He's only playable in Miracles so no need to discuss it somewhere else.

[Valtrix]

I don't understand why we are discussing Keranos in Miracle thread, sounds like SCD topic to me, you can find it a home via that way.

Because the question is not where to play the card. The question is if the card is good enough to play in Miracles, potentially as a sideboard card. This seems like the perfect location to do that. You may think it's terrible, and it very well might be, but that doesn't mean that it's inappropriate to talk about the card.

I'm leaving open judgment for now; I really like* the card a lot. It can't be spell pierced, once it hits play decks have almost no answers, and it's a fetchable win-condition with enlightened tutor even.

*like does not mean that I'll play it necessarily

[ThoSha]

Keranos seems very strong. Can't be pierced, can't be destroyed, basically nets you a free Bolt each Turn.
I will try him as 1of for sure.

[amalek0]

Must've been a bad lands pilot if they let you clique away a loam, especially post-board. Even relatively new lands pilots should understand that you dredge clique main-phase with a cycle land and then immediately recast it so it's never exposed, in any matchup where you know or suspect cliques.

[Cipher]

I was just talking with a friend about how Keranos is almost as bad a Phyrexian Arena as Ephara, and how it was too expensive to even play in Standard.

Have fun brewing, though.

[nodahero]

You can Clique in the end of draw step...