[BUG] Cuban Nic Fit (60/15)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian Stage
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
/////
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Trinket Mage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
Interesting use of the Depths combo with PrimeTime.Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Do you really need the Tops with four Brainstorm and two Jace?
Regarding the Depths Combo: I know you can get the same damage output from Treetop Village/Creeping Tar Pit/other manland x2, but the problem I have with those is that they are relatively easy removed, particularly by decks with Burn or Swords to Plowshares. At least with the Marit Lage token, Burn can't do shit against it, and Swords to Plowshares on it grants one hell of a life lead, which may be enough for this deck to just outlast the opponent.
Regarding the Tops, I found that 2 Tops in conjunction with 4 Brainstorm works best for me. The 2 JtMS, although good as a recurring Brainstorm stick, doesn't have that same reliability as Brainstorm and Top does . . . in my experience it's pretty much best used as an alternative win condition with 'removal' and card quality/advantage as perks instead of the major selling point.
Speaking of Planeswalkers ... I'm thinking of replacing Maelstrom Pulse with Vraska, as this trades the ability to hit overextended boards for more self-reliant nonlands, such as most Show and Tell/Reanimator targets. Any thoughts?
Tested stronghold and caused too many mulligans, couldn't recur spells, and as you said, this is a heavier planeswalker list so ramp and fixing is at a premium. Top is "ok," but 4 AD lets me push through Miracles and strong delver draws. Have tested AD at 2-3-4, and 4 was where I wanted it always.\
I ran heavy cantrips in testing, brainstorm, jaces, sylvan library, tops. Punishing Fire was the best compliment color by far.
I finally made my BUG pod list work! At one of the local weeklies I went 4-1-1 and made 2nd place (shared with 1st) out of 22 players or so. After the tournament before this one I wanted the deck to be more consistent and less depending on top decks in mid/late games. Especially against control decks I was losing often due to bad draws later in the game. I have too often lost after a board wipe and both players with empty hands that I draw an Underground Sea and my opponent a Jace or so... Anyway, I made some space for additional cantrips and added 3 ponder. I loved them during the whole tournament and will definitely keep them in for more testing. The whole list just worked for me and none of the cards felt bad/redundant nor did I miss anything.
Mainboard:
3x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Baleful Strix
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x True-Name Nemesis
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Eternal Witness
1x Sower of Temptation
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Thragtusk
1x Acidic Slime
1x Consecrated Sphinx
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Birthing Pod
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Island
2x Forest
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
2x Phyrexian Tower
Sideboard:
4x Force of Will
2x Envelop
2x Swan Song
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Golgari Charm
1x Engineered Plague
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Thoughtseize
A very short report for those interested. What I tried most was not to use Cabal therapy too quickly and keep ponder/brainstorm for later stages in the game when I was running out of gas rather than just slamming them asap. This definitely worked and won me some games.
First round: Enchantress Rip/Helm combo (1-1 Draw)
g1: We both were a bit slow but I blew his board away with a Pernicious deed and won quickly after that.
g2: He assembled the combo before I could stop him and I just thought stupidly thinking he would go for Emrakul. I was surprised to see the combo and would surely have boarded different if I realized this was what was coming (I should have known).
g3: We had few minutes left and I managed to stop his combo with a (lucky) top-decked Force of Will, after which we went into time.
Second round: White Staxx (2-0)
g1: Deed shined and blew up all his relevant stuff together with Abrupt decay. Chalice on 1 and Trinisphere just don't really do it against this deck.
g2: See game 1.
Third round: Jund (2-0)
g1: Close round where Punishing fire nearly got me. I had a birthing pod in play, but it was difficult to keep any creatures alive since he could fire them 2 to 3 times a turn. However, the life gain from thusk and the grinding of the pod got me there.
g2: Close round again, but again pod + life gain was very strong and a well timed surgical on his punishing made his deck a lot less impressive.
Fourth round: BUG (2-0)
g1: I knew he had stifle, so had to play around this. Good calls on Cabal Therapy made sure I was able to resolve a deed to clear his board. Veteran shined in grinding me advantage and Ponder was especially good to keep up with his card advantage.
g2: He starts with 2 early delvers but don't get them flipped and Golgari charm kills them before they do any real damage. He had some bad luck, but overall it wasn't that hard.
Fifth round: URbg Deathrite/delver (2-0)
g1: I didn't look forward to this match up fearing a lot of burn and a really quick deck, but the deathrites made his deck slower than it seemed (I thought he played straight UR burn). Deed and Cabal made sure I could whipe his board and Pod shined again with grinding advantage.
g2: See game 1.
Sixth round: Death and Taxes (0-1)
g1: I hate this match up. It is supposed to be a 'good' match up, but I Always tend to lose. Too many little creatures that I can't efficiently remove apart from deed. If my opponent knows this they save some for when a deed comes. I just hate all the effects their creatures have (aven mindcensor...) that are really good against what this deck tries to do. Close fight, but he locked me out the game with a mom, 2 mindcensors (killed one) and 2 revokers... If pod and deed don't work anymore, well, the deck ain't that good.
g2: I could've won this one, but g1 took so long that we went into time after I finally established a good board state with Thragtusk and pod in play.
It didn't really matter as I was ensured of a top 4 position anyway, but still any comments on how to play better against D&T are most welcome. I saved cabal therapies for his equipments which already worked a bit better, but it still is a strong and consistent deck with a lot of hate. Would you guys board out Liliana? I went -1 Lily, -1 Sower, - something (cabal maybe) for 2 Golgari charm and the engineered plague. Didn't see any of that unfortunately though. Still very pleased with the result and gives me good hopes for the future. Crushing fair decks was fun, now I'm curious how I will fare against combo and control. For next time.
Here are a few tactics I'm gonna incorporate against my next Death and Taxes opponent.
Game Strategy
1. Hold off on Therapies until they play Stoneforge so the equipment gets dumped.
2. Hold off on Explorer triggers until they reach a critical mass of lands (usually between 3 and 5) and we haven't (most likely 5 to 7 lands)
3. Bait Mom activations (Abrupt Decay ain't so good when it fizzles from insta-protection).
3a. For example, having a fatty or Strix untapped so they'll have to give protection to swing safely.
3b. Also, using Planeswalker spot removal abilities or another Abrupt Decay on another target to open the intended target up.
Sideboard Strategy
1. Bring in any instant-speed ramp over Veteran Explorers (i.e. Sakura-Tribe Elder in my recent list)
2. Pithing Needle seems crucial for this matchup, particularly against AEther Vial (maybe: not sold on this), Mom, or Equipment.
Blind Spots
1. We have trouble with Flying creatures. Lots and lots of trouble.
1a. Aven Mindcensor in particular crushes us due to both its potent ability and its evasion.
Possible Deck Tech
1. Timbermare over Thrun, the Last Troll: so far I've been underwhelmed by Thrun, mostly because the only relevant ability on it seems to be the Hexproof, particularly if you're GSZing for it. Timbermare in this matchup provides a unique tool against DnT: it forces Moms to be proactive as opposed to reactive, particularly if you do not attack with it (which, why would you unless it would win you the game?).
Pithing Needle on Vial doesn't seem great, but depending on the situation, Mangara or Karakas as well would be appropriate. Mangara provides a really rough challenge that's compounded by mostly being unable to interact with their lands, with basically Abrupt decay being your main out to it otherwise.
Their lands don't mean as much to their gameplan as your lands. Them having 15 lands in play doesn't allow them to do as much as having multiple X spells, Birthing Pod, Deed, Punishing Fire... basically whatever your flavour, our lands tend to get more work in the long game than theirs do.
Resolving Deed is tre powerful (assuming it doesn't get Revokered), but it's durdle deck vs durdle deck. Having good long-term plans trumps short-term acceleration. Don't play to sketchy land-keeps, because their initial board doesn't always get there. Golgari Charm is the other card against them that's just straight house (assuming, usually, they bring in rest in peace).
I don't see flyers as being that devastating by themselves. It's usually Mom that precludes the damage that you'd see from 3/3 flyers. Baleful Strix is real, and more often than not if you're able to actually create a board presence, you're just going to find yourself racing them in the end.
The one issue I see with holding off on Explorer triggers is that STP can stop your triggers. Has the strategy of simply ramping as quickly as possible, then deeding everything not worked out? Everytime I would lose to DnT it was because I couldn't find more lands and Thalia plus port would keep me off of Deed mana.
You can't just go T1 Explorer, T2 Therapy.
You have to Therapy first every time, ensure therapy's in the yard, and then cast Explorer, because they won't have an opportunity to ever STP Explorer when you sequence it that way. T1 Blind you Therapy post-board for Rest in Peace (imo), you play the Explorer after they play SFM (if they have SFM in play after you Therapied the T1) and grab their equipment. If not, you have the opportunity to wait it out and play explorer slightly later than you usually would. I think rushing Explorer vs decks that play STP is high up there on the no-nos... I'd rather a deathrite hit the plow than the explorer every time.
True: I forgot about that combo for some reason >_<.
Indeed, but you can't just go and give them two basic Plains untapped while they still have one or two lands out, hence why I suggest waiting for them to get an amount of lands that they would get the most out of without being excessive.Their lands don't mean as much to their gameplan as your lands. Them having 15 lands in play doesn't allow them to do as much as having multiple X spells, Birthing Pod, Deed, Punishing Fire... basically whatever your flavour, our lands tend to get more work in the long game than theirs do.
Hmm ... never thought about it like that: but then who plays the beatdown role in this matchup?Resolving Deed is tre powerful (assuming it doesn't get Revokered), but it's durdle deck vs durdle deck. Having good long-term plans trumps short-term acceleration. Don't play to sketchy land-keeps, because their initial board doesn't always get there. Golgari Charm is the other card against them that's just straight house (assuming, usually, they bring in rest in peace).
Guess you're right: tbh I dislike the Strix in BUG since it cannot be GSZ'd for, pretty much limiting one to running it in multiples (which isn't bad perse: just really constrains deckbuilding for me).I don't see flyers as being that devastating by themselves. It's usually Mom that precludes the damage that you'd see from 3/3 flyers. Baleful Strix is real, and more often than not if you're able to actually create a board presence, you're just going to find yourself racing them in the end.
Dat Athreos.
QFT.
It's like... I don't even know. Just such a value machine. Little bit of a Lightning Bolt here and Eternal Witness there... wipe the board with a deed, have a hand full of cards (and Athreos still on the board). I sorta really love it in a junk pod shell like Qweerios' posted a few weeks back. It's interaction with Recurring Nightmare is borderline hilarious. It doesn't necessarily work that nicely with persist/undying creatures, but it's one of those grindy matchups shining stars that should eke out a few extra wins in games that you normally wouldn't.
Note: I -believe- it works beneficially with Rector, because you can stack the triggers how you wish (choose to exile Rector first). Also, Athreos + Yosei is BACKBREAKING.
Unfortunately his trigger is mandatory, not optional. But, I guess he's nuts enough and doesn't need to be even more so.
7 devotion is going to be basically impossible to get in BW barring ridiculously win-more board states, but that's fine because we don't want him for his body anyway. He's safer if he never animates, actually, because of Swords to Plowshares. If he's inanimate, he's actually literally impossible to kill in legacy, which is awesome.
I was actually expecting more from the green gods since they could be GSZ'd out of the library and still be inanimate: hopefully Pharika gives us something good. But yeah: only thing that can really touch a inanimate God in Legacy is Emrakul and Mangara as far as I'm aware.
I think they recognized how ridiculous a GSZ'd god would be in legacy and left all of us with blech. Pharika's pretty trashy. Flavorful, but trashy. The only truly breakable one is Athreos. (fyi: 1BG, 5/5, BG: Exile target creature card from a graveyard. It's owner puts a 1/1 black and green Snake enchantment creature token with deathtouch onto the battlefield.)
Yeah I saw that and just shook my head. Pharika is trash. Nylea is decent, but meh in our deck since we don't have a whole lot of heavy hitters. Karametra wouldn't get that much value. Kruphix seems to have some potential given that we run Deed, GSZ, and Top, but it's fairly useless on it's own. Only Xenagos looks sweet, particularly with PrimeTime, but then again it's useless on its own.
Brief report on a local tourney yesterday. If details are a bit sketchy, I apologize: I was in ER Tuesday and have been lethargic ever since.
[BUG] Cuban Nic Fit (60/15)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Timbermare
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Vraska, the Unseen
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
/////
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Trinket Mage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
Round 1 v. C-- [Jund] (0-1;1-2-0) Game 1 I bring him down to 8 life with a Timbermare in hand and Creeping Tar Pit on the field and enough creatures on his side of the field to eat me alive. I cast the Timbermare, animate the Tar Pit, and proceed to swing for lethal. Game 2 I almost kill him the same way, but neglecting to account for DRS activation leaves at just 1 life while next turn he proceeds to swing for lethal. By the time Game 3 got underway, there was no way I could recuperate before time, so I conceded the game and thus the match.
Round 2 v. Z-- [Patriot Delver] (0-2;0-2-0) I want to smash my face with a brick for how bad I played this match. Game 1 I keep my initial 7 with 1 Bayou and 6 other spells. He proceeds to Swords, Daze, and Wasteland me into oblivion. Game 2 I decide not to side in either Sakura Tribe Elder or Trinket Mage plus Pithing Needle for Batterskull, so the game grinds out with me inevitably losing to Batterskull beats.
Round 3 v. D-- [BW Auras] (1-2;2-0-0) Not much to say here, unfortunately. Game 2 he managed to overextend and swing for 18 pro-green, allowing me to finish him with a full out blitz of Timbermare, Thragtusk, Tar Pit and something else.
Round 4 v. M-- [Junk Modern Port] (2-2;1-0-1) Game 1 goes on forever, with myself almost running out of effective creatures. However, I manage to destroy his Batterskull, and thus am able to grind him out at last. We go to turn game 2, so we just agree to draw for that game, granting me the win.
Notes:
1. I need to work on my sideboarding a bit: I never sided in or out anything, which might have helped me, especially Game 1 and Game 2.
2. Timbermare is an absolute house: every win or near-loss has been because of Timbermare enabling the beats.
3. Vraska, on the other hand, has been rather meh: never really felt like there was difference between her or Maelstrom Pulse. Might try Karn Liberated in place of either.
I wouldn't necessarily count out Thassa either as being the worst depending on the list... I've been running anything from Sea Gate Oracle & Edric, Spymaster of Trest in that (pod) 3 drop spot and I'm not entirely satisfied with either of them. Its an actual option in a pod list that wouldn't actually have a shot at turning her on...
Ensuring card quality off the top of deck I think is a really nice advantage to Thassa in considerably longer grindy games as an alternative to playing Athreos... over a long enough timeframe it's card quality engine will beat any particular CA you could procure from the aforementioned SGO & Edric without being able to be shut out nearly as easily. You have Nylea, but you hit the nail on the head. There's the mana you can sink into Nylea, but at that point and time, would it actually be any better than plugging out unblockables?
Just actively musing here, because I feel that after the 5 drop spot, the 3 drops feel the weakest to me, the 4's feel good and the 2's are fine.
(Creatures_
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Pestermite
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 Grave Titan
(non creatures)
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Birthing Pod
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Brainstorm
That spot has basically been the following: Sea Gate Oracle, Edric, Spymaster of Trent, Green Sun's Zenith, Brainstorm #4, Veteran Explorer #4, Abrupt Decay #3. I stopped with the AD recently because I felt I was using it as a crutch too much and blowing it too early and too unnecessarily when often the answer would present itself sometimes. I play Man-o'-War in the side (well, AEther Adept until the Man-o'-War gets pulled out of one of those uncommon bins somewhere, but it's essentially the same). I don't really want to replace it with a 5 drop because I don't think there's enough that I can go against, and my meta plays enough TNN/Stoneblade where I end up playing long grindy games. GSZ was nice because I could grab Viridian Corrupter, and I don't run enough spot removal to make me feel that Fleshbag Maurader is a good enough card vs TNN, and as much as I'd want to, adjusting the BUG Pod manabase is a very shaky existence as is. I tried a 1-of Academy Rector (and if I ever went that route again, I'd probably just play Athreos). I could play the Man-o'-War mainboard and run a Back to Basics in it's spot in the sideboard.
It's been playing much better, and I've been having some really good results with it over the past 2 weeks (2 tournament wins this week for $150 or so). But I'm still looking for that last spot to help me in the UW/x stoneblade matchups because A) the people I play against who play it are very good at the deck, and B) they get grindy, and the longer the match goes, the more crappy decisions I can make.
So....there's another rector target. Rule of law on a stick.....but still can be decayed....I'm torn.
Current Build: Punishing Rhinos http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post927726
Ive been playing massacre wurm instead of grave titan and it was a nice replacement against death n taxes and against bug
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
