[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[defector]

Hymn is very powerful and was a big reason to pick the deck, but it felt clunky. I'll try the seizes for a while then maybse switch around. I need more experience with the deck regardless. In testing so far Clique has been amazing:) Def want 2 in the board. More games and more testing needed, but I'm commiting to this deck for SCG Dallas in August.

[CroSS.24]

I now have 2 top 8's in the last 2 scg opens I have played in. I have played 0 discard spells in both lists SCG Columbus and SCG Detroit. Stifle has won me a ton of games, by stifling a fetch or just using stifle as a utility card. It has out performed all of my expectations. I can't argue with the hymn or thoughtseize lists as they have their own merits. I am just not a fan of discard in this deck. I would rather my opponent waste his mana to not be able to resolve his spells. Counter spells to me just seem like a time walk. I will be playing a list very close to the that one I used in Detroit for SCG Cincinnati. I have some new ideas for my list. And as for liliana, I think she is a great planeswalker when paired with discard. In my list she would basically be a 3 mana chainers edict.

[iostream]

I now have 2 top 8's in the last 2 scg opens I have played in. I have played 0 discard spells in both lists SCG Columbus and SCG Detroit. Stifle has won me a ton of games, by stifling a fetch or just using stifle as a utility card. It has out performed all of my expectations. I can't argue with the hymn or thoughtseize lists as they have their own merits. I am just not a fan of discard in this deck. I would rather my opponent waste his mana to not be able to resolve his spells. Counter spells to me just seem like a time walk. I will be playing a list very close to the that one I used in Detroit for SCG Cincinnati. I have some new ideas for my list. And as for liliana, I think she is a great planeswalker when paired with discard. In my list she would basically be a 3 mana chainers edict.

I think once people wise up to the fact that they have to play around Stifle versus you, you will find that Stifle's effectiveness will decrease. From my RUG days, I know that Stifle just feels awful against an opponent who knows it might be coming.

[defector]

@CroSS.24: Congrats on the high finishes. You've really gone old school back to when Team America was the Stifle deck of legacy. I'm much more a midrange Aggro-Control player than a straight up tempo player and your deck is way too tempo for my play style, but that's me. Good luck with the next event and if you put sink holes in and top 8 I'll buy you a pack of Nyx:)
I do like the Spell Pierce main. I look at our rival in American Delver and I think we are playing similar games except that thoughtseize does for us what spell pierce does for them. Both are very good cards, but I'm going to try the discard path for now.
cheers
defector

[KobeBryan]

If you win with sinkholes MD, I'll give you my extra FOW

[CroSS.24]

I might have to go back to one of my old lists that ran sinkholes. an extra force might be worth it.

[Dragonslayer_90]

I think once people wise up to the fact that they have to play around Stifle versus you, you will find that Stifle's effectiveness will decrease. From my RUG days, I know that Stifle just feels awful against an opponent who knows it might be coming.

I'm sure CroSS.24 is benefiting from the fact that most people only know about the discard heavy versions of Team America and thus don't play around Stifle at first when they see T1 U. Sea Deathrite. However, I know him in real life and that he's a pretty good player. Thus, I think he's doing something right, though I disagree with some of his deck building choices still. Considering a slightly different build from what CroSS.24 Top 8 'ed with for Cinci, though that is highly dependent upon if I can even get Stifles to borrow for the event.

[blablub]

Hey Guys, i've just read that someone has success with a Stifle-Build, here is my try:

3 Drs
3 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver

4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Pierce
3 Decay
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember

18 Lands

SB:
1 Cage
2 Extraction
1 Bitterblossom
1 Dismember
1 Disfigure
3 Flusterstorm
3 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pierce

I love Playin Rug Delver and the bUrg deck becomes too greedy for me, so i try build Dark-*****, i hope it might work without the reach of Bolts.
I'm not sure about the creature suite, I dont wanna play 14-16 creatures, i think its too much. i think also too much cc2 creatures are not so good if you wanna hold up stifle, so i think Confidant isn't good, but im not sure. what do you think?

[Barbed Blightning]

Hey Guys, i've just read that someone has success with a Stifle-Build, here is my try:

3 Drs
3 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver

4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Pierce
3 Decay
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember

18 Lands

SB:
1 Cage
2 Extraction
1 Bitterblossom
1 Dismember
1 Disfigure
3 Flusterstorm
3 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pierce

I love Playin Rug Delver and the bUrg deck becomes too greedy for me, so i try build Dark-*****, i hope it might work without the reach of Bolts.
I'm not sure about the creature suite, I dont wanna play 14-16 creatures, i think its too much. i think also too much cc2 creatures are not so good if you wanna hold up stifle, so i think Confidant isn't good, but im not sure. what do you think?

You lost me at fewer than four DRS

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[blablub]

jeah, this might be not right, as i said, im not sure

another creaturebase i had in mind was this: 4 DRS, 4 Delver, 3 Mungo, 2 True Name

[Barbed Blightning]

jeah, this might be not right, as i said, im not sure

another creaturebase i had in mind was this: 4 DRS, 4 Delver, 3 Mungo, 2 True Name

Why play goose at all? Goyf is superior

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Dragonslayer_90]

Why play goose at all? Goyf is superior

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

I think he might be porting his creature base over from BURG. I don't like playing Deathrite Shaman and Mungos together but that's just purely based off the anti-synergy between the two. Might be worth a try if it works in BURG lists. Like Barbed Blightning I think Tarmogoyf is a better creature than Mongoose. However Mongoose being a one drop threat seems significant since lower cost threats are better in a more draw-go lists that play stifle and spell pierce.

[defector]

The creature base in my opinion is very close to ideal: 4DRS 4 Goyf 4 Delver. The only real debate in my mind is what the last two slots should be. Tombstalker is great, but interferes with both Goyf and DRS. Bob is great but add control/draw and not a lot of threats in a deck that is a little threat light. True Name is great, but pushes a deck to cast 2-6 BB spells with Lilli and/or hymn and UU with the true names. I have tried all three at least cursorily and am currently running two Bobs. I like it but I'm not saying its the best as all three approaches have strengths and weaknesses.
cheers
defector

[Barbed Blightning]

The creature base in my opinion is very close to ideal: 4DRS 4 Goyf 4 Delver. The only real debate in my mind is what the last two slots should be. Tombstalker is great, but interferes with both Goyf and DRS. Bob is great but add control/draw and not a lot of threats in a deck that is a little threat light. True Name is great, but pushes a deck to cast 2-6 BB spells with Lilli and/or hymn and UU with the true names. I have tried all three at least cursorily and am currently running two Bobs. I like it but I'm not saying its the best as all three approaches have strengths and weaknesses.
cheers
defector

I've hedged my bets and gone with one TNN and one Bob (or Tombstalker if the meta is more Jund/Combo) and like the feel of it. Both are solid "answer this or die" threats and TNN helps keep the FoW blue count healthy.

The only thing that sucks is golgari charm hitting my dudes. :/

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[blablub]

The main issue with the normal Team-America Creature-base is the Miracle MatchUp, because if you have no shroud its pretty easy for them :) that's why i wanna play a Canadian-Style Deck. Also with my Deck i wanna be reactive, so its better to play the cheaper creatures

[Purgatory]

The main issue with the normal Team-America Creature-base is the Miracle MatchUp, because if you have no shroud its pretty easy for them :) that's why i wanna play a Canadian-Style Deck. Also with my Deck i wanna be reactive, so its better to play the cheaper creatures

I like the list quite a bit, and I'm a big fan of Stifle. However, the game plan of a BUG deck featuring maindeck Stifles, Spell Pierces, Mongeese etc. will be radically different from the tap-out style of Team America, and as such, might not belong in this thread for discussion. I like the list quite a bit, and I've already taken it for a couple of spins around Cockatrice. Not sure if it's better than RUG, though I'm also quite sure it's not, at least not since it's a rough list.

[carnifex]

@Cross.24: curious to hear about your new ideas, unless you're trying to preserve your secret tech.

[KobeBryan]

Should we dedicate sideboard space (over 5 cards) to fight miracles or should we just punt the matchup and focus on beating the more 50/50 matchups?

I've been using 1 null rod, 2 cliques, 1 creeping tarpit, 3 spell pierces, 1 pithing needle and I am still having a hard time fighting miracles. Do you think its time to just give up on it?

[btm10]

Zur's Weirding is excellent against Miracles, as areTrygon Predator, Krosan Grip, Winter Orb, and True-Name Nemesis. Some bulids/players will board out all enchantments against you, but if they do then they aren't using Rest in Peace, which can be a beating if your non-Goyf, non-DRS threats are just 2 Clique, 4 Delver, some number of Bobs. I've only played against Miracles a few times, but it doesn't seem that unfavorable, and I'm not boarding all of these cards.

[Barbed Blightning]

Zur's Weirding is excellent against Miracles, as areTrygon Predator, Krosan Grip, Winter Orb, and True-Name Nemesis. Some bulids/players will board out all enchantments against you, but if they do then they aren't using Rest in Peace, which can be a beating if your non-Goyf, non-DRS threats are just 2 Clique, 4 Delver, some number of Bobs. I've only played against Miracles a few times, but it doesn't seem that unfavorable, and I'm not boarding all of these cards.

+1 to K Grip. Weirding sounds cool (again, this is my inner Timmy speaking) but I wonder if anyone has had success with the card

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.