[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[Asthereal]

From my POV, the problem with this matchup is that, once miracles stabilized, it's really hard to squeeze the last points of damage through. This is where Tar Pit can come in handy.

There we go, an accomplice.

In the old thread, when I joined in and asked for advice on my sideboard, Tar Pit was suggested as a one-of in the board. And actually most of the lists back then had one in the board. One of the guys there said it was constantly overperforming for him and said I should just give it a test run. I never did, but right now it seems time to try it out.

Note: I am talking about like five months ago. Basically the same card pool, just a slightly different meta.

[Esper3k]

I'm not opposed to Creeping Tar Pit. I think it's just fine and does give you that reach to push the last damage you nee when you're in that situation (similar to TNN). I don't believe it's as necessary in the TNN lists, but I think it's find for the Dark Confidant / Tombstalker lists.

[phazonmutant]

There we go, an accomplice.

In the old thread, when I joined in and asked for advice on my sideboard, Tar Pit was suggested as a one-of in the board. And actually most of the lists back then had one in the board. One of the guys there said it was constantly overperforming for him and said I should just give it a test run. I never did, but right now it seems time to try it out.

Note: I am talking about like five months ago. Basically the same card pool, just a slightly different meta.

True, it was in all the old lists. I played it for a while, brought it in a bunch of matchups, but it never really did anything. As a land it kinda sucked, as a creature is was pretty marginal. I get that it's good because it's both, but I'd rather just have a trump for the matchup you're concerned about like Orb, Needle, Null Rod, etc.

[Barbed Blightning]

Quick report from my local event, went decently 2-1-1 in rounds (it's always four rounds at Card Kingdom, and I usually draw my last round if possible to Han Solo it out of there).

List:

20 Land

4 Delver
4 DRS
4 Goyf
1 TNN
1 Bob

4 Daze
3 FoW
3 Hymn
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Lilly

SB:
2 Charm
2 Disfigure
3 Pierce
1 FoW
1 Clique
1 Library
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Cage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Krosan Grip


Matches were:

R1: BUrG Aluren (2-0)

An early hymn tells me everything I need to know when it reveals Aluren and Cavern Harpy. I sandbag a FoW + blue card, while cautiously activating my Lilly. Game ends after a few turns of my Goyf beating through his defenses to eat his last point of life.

Out:
4 Decay
2 Wasteland (I am not familiar with alluren, but he ran DRS so I figured I wasn't going to be screwing him any time soon)
1 Bob
1 TNN

In:
3 Pierce
1 Fow
2 Charm
1 Needle
1 Clique

Game two is a similar bout. I'm lighter on disruption, however; on my turn 3 he casts an intuition on my draw step. I brainstorm. Intuition resolves. Three copies of Aluren. "All right," he says, "Show me that thoughtseize."

"Ok... thoughtseize?" From there on out he can't find the pieces to his combo and a Goyf gets me there. Cool fact about this matchup: Tarmogoyf reaches almost super-saiyan levels, due to the artifact creatures and enchantments in the yard.

R2: UWr Miracles (1-2)

It was definitely difficult, but in games one and two there was a definite person who was ahead (myself in game one, himself game two). Game three I basically lost to some sloppy plays. The sloppiest was when he was on just a Jace at 3 and six or so lands. I ultimated my Lilly and, without thinking, just said "your Jace or your lands." He binned the Jace. I then, in my second misplay, cast a Clique proactively to apply pressure (I had no other threats). He cast Entreat at 4 next turn.

Boarding was:

Out:
4 Daze
3 Waste

In:
2 Charm
1 Library
1 Needle
1 Rod
1 Grip
1 Clique

in retrospect, I think I should have cut the Hymns for Pierces.

R3: Esperblade
Game one he plays double Back to Basics on me, and despite my daze tricks, I cannot even hope to find double decay and four lands drops to make it happen.

Boarding:

Out:
1 Hymn
3 FoW
1 Waste

In:
1 Grip
1 Rod
1 Needle
1 Clique
1 Library

Game two I eventually have both Null Rod and Library in play, with DRS and Delver doing their usual amount of work. A TNN seals the game up.

Out: 4 Daze
In: 1 Hymn, 3 Pierce

Game three he mulls to six. Plays an EE with his basic plains. I cast DRS. He draws... and does nothing. Sweet. I cast Needle (on EE) and a Delver. Another turn with no mana, discards Lingering Souls. Delver flips, Cast Lilly, Exile souls. He discads another souls. He gets a land and fetches for a basic Island, and even though he gets to Ponder, the game goes only downhill for him from there on. Next turn is Bob, DRS, hellbent, Lilly +1. He scoops.

R4 Shardless BUG (ID)
We decide to split, talk about our other Legacy deck (D&T) and I give him a few pointers. Super nice dude though I forgot to ask if he was a Sourcer.

Moving forward:

I may use my Toxic Deluge slot I currently have as a place to test different/weird sideboard options--Zur's Weirding, Carpet of Flowers, Bitterblossom that kind of thing. Rest of the deck feels rock solid though--I really like the 3 Hymn, 2 Thoughtseize main.

[zenzog]

Played a local legacy event, here were my matches:

2-0 Dredge
2-0 UWr Miracles
2-0 Imperial Painter
2-1 Punishing Jund (ID)

The dredge deck seemed like it would be a poor matchup, but my opponent's dredges were extremely bad. I was pretty lucky here... I forced a T1 breakthrough and hindered his hand dump enough that my single DRS was able to keep up.

My miracles opponent was inexperienced with his deck and an easy win for me. No new insights gleaned from this one, sorry! I have to play miracles at least once or twice each week against much better opponents so this one wasn't really difficult.
Normally I side out of some number of abrupt decays, but this time I didn't since I wasn't sure how he would board. He ended up keeping the CBs in game 2 and he did get a little value countering a ponder before I found an abrupt decay for it.
In: 2 Vendilion Clique, 1 Maelstrom Pulse, 1 Krosan Grip, 1 Envelop, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Hymn to Tourach, 1 Liliana of the Veil
Out: 1 Wasteland, 4 Daze, 1 Force of Will, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Thoughtseize

Painter wasn't too bad-- I wasted him out of G1 and G2 I was able to destroy or make him discard all of his grindstones. He held me back for a few turns with an ensnaring bridge, but I drew an abrupt decay to put the game away with tarmogoyf.
I didn't sideboard too much, since I still wanted dazes to get around an early blood moon.

I drew with my Jund opponent in the fourth round, but we played it out for fun. The first game, I somehow won a grindy topdeck war by drawing abrupt decays for his tarmogoyfs and him not drawing abrupt decays for my tarmogoyf. Second game, I got wastelanded out. Third game I won by the skin of my teeth. I surgical extraction'd his abrupt decay so he had fewer outs to my tarmogoyf. Punishing fire wasn't in his GY at the time, but he eventually found it and I wished I had extracted that instead.

My list:

MB:
2 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Brainstorm
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Dark Confidant
4 Daze
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Sylvan Library
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Force of Will

SB:
2 Disfigure
1 Envelop
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Golgari Charm
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Null Rod
1 Krosan Grip
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Force of Will

[Barbed Blightning]

Has surgical been worth it in your opinion? Whenever I have played it I always found it to be barely effective

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[KobeBryan]

Has surgical been worth it in your opinion? Whenever I have played it I always found it to be barely effective

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

I run two...and yes it has especially against jund, lands, and dredge. I don't board it in for combo matchups.

[Barbed Blightning]

I run two...and yes it has especially against jund, lands, and dredge. I don't board it in for combo matchups.

Gotcha. I have only seen like one Jund in my meta and the very rare Dredge on occasion; I think I will refrain from using it until maybe SCG Portland in June.

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[zenzog]

Has surgical been worth it in your opinion? Whenever I have played it I always found it to be barely effective

I like it against decks like jund, lands, miracles, and some combo decks like reanimator, grindstone, and dredge. I don't think I'd play more than one, but occasionally it's nice. If I were really hurting for an additional sideboard slot though, it and/or the 3rd lotv in the board would be the first ones on my list to look at.

[Barbed Blightning]

I like it against decks like jund, lands, miracles, and some combo decks like reanimator, grindstone, and dredge. I don't think I'd play more than one, but occasionally it's nice. If I were really hurting for an additional sideboard slot though, it and/or the 3rd lotv in the board would be the first ones on my list to look at.

What exactly do you extract from miracles? Top if you are lucky?

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Asthereal]

What exactly do you extract from miracles? Top if you are lucky?

+1. I never board in Surgical against Miracles. I prefer to fight over board presence.

[Esper3k]

What exactly do you extract from miracles? Top if you are lucky?

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

StP, Terminus, Entreat, Jace are also all really good ones to hit too. When they pop Top on your turn, you can Surgical something to shuffle their deck so they have less of a chance of Miracling you. Of course, you might also live the dream of Surgicaling a Terminus with the Miracle Trigger of another one on the stack!

[Emo]

I usually play RUG, I just picked up this deck and play tested it a little bit because I am playing around with different tempo decks. I have a couple questions about two MUs for Team America (not listed in the primer): the Rock (more fringe these days and Jund:

1) Generally speaking is the matchup against traditional rocklists with KOTR, stoneforge, lilianna, and utility lands a slightly unfavorable matchup and how do ppl usually board against this mathcup?

2) Jund- I basically have the same questions, is this considered slightly unfavorable because of PF?/ and how do you board against Jund?

I apology if these questions are too general, I am COMPLETELY knew to the deck and would just like some general pointers on these matchups- which I run into a lot for some reason

cheers,

Emo

[Esper3k]

I usually play RUG, I just picked up this deck and play tested it a little bit because I am playing around with different tempo decks. I have a couple questions about two MUs for Team America (not listed in the primer): the Rock (more fringe these days and Jund:

1) Generally speaking is the matchup against traditional rocklists with KOTR, stoneforge, lilianna, and utility lands a slightly unfavorable matchup and how do ppl usually board against this mathcup?

2) Jund- I basically have the same questions, is this considered slightly unfavorable because of PF?/ and how do you board against Jund?

I apology if these questions are too general, I am COMPLETELY knew to the deck and would just like some general pointers on these matchups- which I run into a lot for some reason

cheers,

Emo

Against most fair decks like the Rock, Deathblade, etc. I tend to become essentially a blue Jund deck post board. Without knowing your deck list, that means bringing out all your Forces and Dazes and bringing in all your Golgari Charms, Lilianas, etc. Krosan Grip and Clique come in vs the Stoneblade decks. Spell Pierce is probably fine vs Jund.

[zenzog]

What exactly do you extract from miracles? Top if you are lucky?

Assuming you didn't board out your discard, you can occasionally get something relevant with a hymn or thoughtseize. If you extract any of the cards esper mentioned, the game gets significantly easier.

I don't think I've ever extracted top, but that could be good too.

[Emo]

Against most fair decks like the Rock, Deathblade, etc. I tend to become essentially a blue Jund deck post board. Without knowing your deck list, that means bringing out all your Forces and Dazes and bringing in all your Golgari Charms, Lilianas, etc. Krosan Grip and Clique come in vs the Stoneblade decks. Spell Pierce is probably fine vs Jund.

Thank you much,

the list I am toying with now is

a stock list with 4 hymns no thoughtseizes and 2 lilianas
and I have 2 confidants in for my slot creatures instead of TNN or tombstalker


cheers,

Emo

[Spike]

Played Team America at the Bazaar of Moxen to a 8-2 finish. Ended up 16th and got rewarded for my efforts with a fbb usea, yeha :)

Heres the list I've played:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

// Sideboard
2 Spell Pierce
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Dismember
1 Disfigure
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Null Rod
2 Grafdiggers Cage

And my matchups:
R1: Mirror 2-1
R2: RW Control/Prison 2-0
R3: Mirror 2-0
R4: Elves 2-1
R5: Manaless Dredge 2-1
R6: Miracle 2-1
R7: Death and Taxes (4 waste, 4 quarter :D) 1-2
R8: ANT 1-2
R9: Canadian 2-0
R10: Uwr Delver 2-0

Jace in the SB was awesome and I'm really happy with the deck. Wouldn't change anything at the moment.

[Barbed Blightning]

Nice job!

Question: did you ever feel too threat-light? Was the library worth it main?

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

[Purgatory]

Nicely done, congrats on the finish?

What did you board Jace against? Miracles?

[Spike]

I've been playing three Goyfs since GP Paris and it feels much better for me. Didnt have any problems regarding thread-density, basically I'm just playing a Library over the fourth Goyf. Library is a boss in many matchups at the moment, especially against Miracles for sure.

The Jaces are mainly for Miracles and TA. He single-handedly won me both mirror matches (and that match against the random RW Control deck ;) ). While testing we found out that its actually quite easy to resolve Jace against Miracles cause they usually board out their Forces anyway. He improves both matchups drastically.
Although I didnt find one in the match against Miracle, but Null Rod did a good job instead, shutting down top and explosives :)