[Deck] The Rock

[sdematt]

Continuing my X-0 streak on Cockatrice, adding Jund Scape-Fit to the list.

Sean does have a point - there are other permanents in which we cannot deal with them using Abrupt Decay. However, the only ones that I have a problem with are Walkers, since we're running Grip over Vindicate/Pulse due to the versatility in a SFM/CB Top dominated metagame. Ideally, if I had the room, I'd love to run 2 Pulse because the card is so flexible.

To combat the walkers problem over 4 mana, that's why I have Teeg to shore up that arc length of my pie chart. S = R*Theta, yo.

-Matt

[Megadeus]

Going T2 Vindicate your land, T3 wasteland, play a 3 drop is just so retarded though...

[sdematt]

Going T2 Vindicate your land, T3 wasteland, play a 3 drop is just so retarded though...

But are you reliably doing that with 1-2 Vindicate? It's not 2007 where you run 3-4.

-Matt

[Platinum_Emperion]

Jace, Elspeth, Tombstalker, Batterskull, Sneak Attack and every land ever printed wave hello ...

This is exactly why I play a 3 Vindicate/ 2 Abrupt Decay split. Of course the split depends on the meta because AD is good against counterbalance decks. AD is great especially at letting us play out threats while controlling the game, but Vindicate is good for what ales you. Usually it has to be hard countered with FOW so it has pseudo uncounterable.

Lately I have been testing Imp's Mischief to see how good it is. Personally I think it gives us a great deal of flexibility albeit situational. I mean just think... You can switch the target of their STP from your Bob/whatever to their TNN, or when they cast hymn on you or cascade into a vision... Hey look I draw three cards nice 2/2! wins some counter wars too. The life cost I think is marginal.

Thoughts?

[Claymore]

I've always wanted to play cards like that, but generally it seemed awkward or I couldn't figure out what to cut for it. How has it done in testing? It certainly has great application right now with Shardless and TNN as prime situational targets.

[Megadeus]

But are you reliably doing that with 1-2 Vindicate? It's not 2007 where you run 3-4.

-Matt

True, but IF it happens, you probably are winning. And if not, you get a nice catch-all removal for the late game.

[sdematt]

Any new developments, anyone? I'm trying Lingering Souls maindeck in Doran's slot just because it harasses Planeswalkers a bit better and has more synergy with Liliana, but so far, both Doran and Souls have been very good.

I'll get back in the real testing groove hopefully Wednesday/Thursday.

-Matt

[phazonmutant]

Any new developments, anyone?

I went 3-0-1 yesterday at our 45-person local with...well, a deck. I think this is clearly the best build of the Rock, for obvious reasons:

Gbwu #greed
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponders
2 Abrupt Decay

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sylvan Library
1 Liliana of the Veil

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian Stage

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Choke
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Zealous Persecution

R1 - Tezzerator. G1 he forgot about Jace's -1 in the face of a large Scavenging Ooze, and I forgot that KotR was could produce mana and that Deathrite Shaman was allowed to attack (in order to StP his 5/5 Talisman and kill his Tezz on 2). G2 he perished my nuts. G3 we drew on a roughly even board. First draw in a year! This deck is hard.

R2 - Threshold - I lost G1 in a tight race where I could play around either Bolt or Stifle but he had both, G2 I managed to stabilize against his True-Name Nemesis and Goyf thanks to SoFi and hard-cast Batterskull. G3 gigantic Knights took the day with some extra help from Batterskull.

R3 - RUG Control - G1 came down to a tight race between Goyfs + Bolts vs. Knights and equipment. G2 I Choked a bitch. Who needs Underground Sea when you have a Noble Hierarch? He then drew into Grove + Fire + Loam so things were looking grim, but Wasteland killed his lands and a suicidal Bob wielding a Jitte killed his Hierarchs.

R4 - Food Chain - G1 I stripped every non-mana spell he had on my first 2 turns, then eventually killed him with a 8/8 Knight and a 20/20 Marit Lage after he ran out of chumps. G2 I killed his Food Chain when he was forced to go for it.
3-0-1 #undefeated

Over the course of the tournament I put back a lot of lands with Brainstorm. #brainstorming #value

Marit Lage was bad, Ponder was bad. Meddling Mage is of course insane. I got many comments about how greedy my deck was, and then they saw that I was playing Wasteland too. Don't listen to the haters. You only live once that's the motto that I follow e'eryday.

[Megadeus]

Choke in the deck with USea, Trop, and Tundra seems... Awesome

[phazonmutant]

Choke in the deck with USea, Trop, and Tundra seems... Awesome

It quadruple Stone Rained my RUG Control opponent. His Loam would have gotten out of control otherwise. I gave up a land, but who cares?

[sdematt]

It quadruple Stone Rained my RUG Control opponent. His Loam would have gotten out of control otherwise. I gave up a land, but who cares?

Your deck is FAR too greedy. Meddling mage might just be worth considering , splashing a Noble in my list along with a Trop. Hm...

-Matt

[haganbmj]

I went 3-0-1 yesterday at our 45-person local with...well, a deck. I think this is clearly the best build of the Rock, for obvious reasons:

Gbwu #greed
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponders
2 Abrupt Decay

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sylvan Library
1 Liliana of the Veil

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian Stage

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Choke
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Zealous Persecution

R1 - Tezzerator. G1 he forgot about Jace's -1 in the face of a large Scavenging Ooze, and I forgot that KotR was could produce mana and that Deathrite Shaman was allowed to attack (in order to StP his 5/5 Talisman and kill his Tezz on 2). G2 he perished my nuts. G3 we drew on a roughly even board. First draw in a year! This deck is hard.

R2 - Threshold - I lost G1 in a tight race where I could play around either Bolt or Stifle but he had both, G2 I managed to stabilize against his True-Name Nemesis and Goyf thanks to SoFi and hard-cast Batterskull. G3 gigantic Knights took the day with some extra help from Batterskull.

R3 - RUG Control - G1 came down to a tight race between Goyfs + Bolts vs. Knights and equipment. G2 I Choked a bitch. Who needs Underground Sea when you have a Noble Hierarch? He then drew into Grove + Fire + Loam so things were looking grim, but Wasteland killed his lands and a suicidal Bob wielding a Jitte killed his Hierarchs.

R4 - Food Chain - G1 I stripped every non-mana spell he had on my first 2 turns, then eventually killed him with a 8/8 Knight and a 20/20 Marit Lage after he ran out of chumps. G2 I killed his Food Chain when he was forced to go for it.
3-0-1 #undefeated

Over the course of the tournament I put back a lot of lands with Brainstorm. #brainstorming #value

Marit Lage was bad, Ponder was bad. Meddling Mage is of course insane. I got many comments about how greedy my deck was, and then they saw that I was playing Wasteland too. Don't listen to the haters. You only live once that's the motto that I follow e'eryday.

You just couldn't stop playing Brainstorm, could you? It's a potent list with lots of powerful effects. Just seems fragile to some degree. Would you consider playing a Birds of Paradise over one of the Noble Hierarchs to help you cast Dark Confidant early without fetching into awkward manabase situations? Looks like you need them to make mana at all times, so I'm not a huge fan of any more Deathrites.

[phazonmutant]

You just couldn't stop playing Brainstorm, could you? It's a potent list with lots of powerful effects. Just seems fragile to some degree. Would you consider playing a Birds of Paradise over one of the Noble Hierarchs to help you cast Dark Confidant early without fetching into awkward manabase situations? Looks like you need them to make mana at all times, so I'm not a huge fan of any more Deathrites.

I know, I'm addicted. TO VALUE.

Fragile to some degree? That's no lie. Punishing Fire, Wasteland, Stifle, itself... Birds does seem solid. Deathrite was pretty marginal overall - I think I got more utility out of his power and toughness than I did out of his other abilities.

[Megadeus]

Maybe go 4 color Loam without red? Though PFire is essentially the best removal spell for that archetype.

[sdematt]

Even though I'm not playing Gordon Gecko aka. Tombstone aka. Junk wit Brainstorm, I decided to try one important card: Meddling Mage. BUG is splashing for it to decent success.

3 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Doran, the Siege Tower
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sylvan Library
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island

SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 Meddling Mage

So what's up with BoP? I wanted to have a dork that wasn't yard dependent, but I also have a Beta BoP, so I tried it. It was fine. Could just be Deathrite, of course.

I loved having Mage against Miracles and Storm (of course). Plus, it was quite unexpected. I'm not sure if I'd keep this change forever, but I tried it, and it was fine.

-Matt

[Goblin Cabdriver]

Lol, you guys are taking this deck to some scary places :). What does everyone think of Will of the Council? I'm probably going to play it over golgari charm in the side... Now my tnn hate also hates on emrakul, mom, jace, marit late, progenitus, and anything really. It looks like a great card to me.

[Goblin Cabdriver]

Lol, you guys are taking this deck to some scary places :). What does everyone think of Will of the Council? I'm probably going to play it over golgari charm in the side... Now my tnn hate also hates on emrakul, mom, jace, marit late, progenitus, and anything really. It looks like a great card to me.

Whoops, the card is called "councils judgment".

[ironclad8690]

Whoops, the card is called "councils judgment".

People keep talking about D&T as the best place for this card, but I think Junk/Maverick will utilize it better as we have way more acceleration than D&T. The only problem is 2 White, which will probably steer the deck more in a more Deadguy/g direction than before.

I can see this card easily being a 2 of in most acceleration decks with white.

Just my .02, but I was curious to see what you guys thought.

[sdematt]

People keep talking about D&T as the best place for this card, but I think Junk/Maverick will utilize it better as we have way more acceleration than D&T. The only problem is 2 White, which will probably steer the deck more in a more Deadguy/g direction than before.

I can see this card easily being a 2 of in most acceleration decks with white.

Just my .02, but I was curious to see what you guys thought.

But, still being a sorcery is really crummy. Reasonably, Liliana is still going to knock out TNN most of the time, and is still worth playing in her own right.

Zealous Persecution, while being a nice piece of TNN hate, also murks Death and Taxes and Elves.

Will of the Council, reasonably, will replace Vindicate/Maelstrom Pulse, MAYBE. Why the maybe? Sure, it hits TNN, but it will hardly hit Batterskull since they'll bounce it (Grip will hit Batterskull, and Decay deals with the other Equips). It does hit Progenitals, but that's not common. Still hits Jace, but so does Vindicate.

If it were instant speed, then we would be cooking with gas.

-Matt

[sdematt]

Still testing well on Cockatrice, beating Deathblade and Bahra Bant 2-0.

-Matt