[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[.Ix]

I actually played almost the same deck yesterday -1 Chrome Mox +1 Ad Nauseam. (There's so much discard here that Chrome Mox can be a real liability. AN is fantastic off the top or a cantrip and it's much easier to cast than IT -> AN.) Went 3-1 losing to Miracles, beating Elves, Esper Blade, and Deathblade. I had a very very hard time sideboarding, too.

[Bryant Cook]

In the current metagame I don't see a reason to run Thoughtseize in the 75. Discarding was near never relevant in the recent weeks but life was. Switched to Duress/Therapy

I'm most likely keeping 'Seize in my sideboard over Duress.

@Wonder- Worry about the combo mirror when you're the faster deck is a little weird, we don't need as much protection if we have increased speed. Not to mention, you can always side more in if need be.

[wonderPreaux]

I'm most likely keeping 'Seize in my sideboard over Duress.

@Wonder- Worry about the combo mirror when you're the faster deck is a little weird, we don't need as much protection if we have increased speed. Not to mention, you can always side more in if need be.

mostly i worry because there are matchups like reanimator where im not the faster combo deck. and there are some occasions where combo matchups just turn into discard-fests and having less business and discard in exchange for mana, something we tend to have more of than other combo decks anyway, makes me feel like i could get caught with a lot of mana and then nothing to do with it. i'm going to test this config tonight though, and see how it feels, im pretty excited to try the new build

[Bryant Cook]

mostly i worry because there are matchups like reanimator where im not the faster combo deck. and there are some occasions where combo matchups just turn into discard-fests and having less business and discard in exchange for mana, something we tend to have more of than other combo decks anyway, makes me feel like i could get caught with a lot of mana and then nothing to do with it. i'm going to test this config tonight though, and see how it feels, im pretty excited to try the new build

Then don't do it?

Something you need to accept in magic is that you're not always going to win, Reanimator is one of those match-ups where you're not favored. You have to ask yourself is it worth it to even try? Or am I better off increasing other match-ups? I believe that hedging percentages against other decks will do me better in the long run.

[Togores]

Sincé DRS came out and dredge and reanimator where not more tier 1. I havent played in sneak attack one card of grave hate. You are mostly going to lose to reanimator even siding 3 cages so you just improve your other mathups and if you play reanimator you dont care because you went x-1 in general.

the same to TES

[d0nkey]

I played in a small tourney this weekend. Didn't do too well but here's the list I ran:

4 gemstone mine
2 city of brass
3 mistry rainforest
2 underground sea
1 volcanic island
4 lotus petal
3 chrome mox
4 lion's eye diamond
4 dark ritual
4 rite of flame
4 gitaxian probe
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 cabal therapy
3 duress
4 infernal tutor
4 burning wish
1 ad nauseum
1 empty the warrens
-----
1 empty the warrens
1 tendrils of agony
1 diminishing returns
1 grapeshot
1 thoughtseize
1 massacre
2 xantid swarm
2 abrupt decay
1 tropical island
2 pyroblast
2 chain of vapor


Round 1 vs mono black pox
Game1: Won the paper, rock, scissors. Opening hand was a snap keep. Gitaxian probe showed he has dark ritual + thoughtseize + hymn. Sad panda. Led off with a ponder to setup the turn 2 kill. 12 goblins get the job done even after that discard.
Game2: He gets thoughtseize -> hymn -> liliana. So it's time to grind. His only pressure is a mishra's factory and it gets me down pretty good. I am able to chain of vapor liliana before she hits ultimate, and then the turn before she gets to ultimate again, I ponder into LED+LED+blank. Thankfully I had burning wished for a past in flames 3 turns earlier (discarding it to liliana). I also had an infernal tutor and 2 burning wishes in the GY from earlier as well. He ultimates and I'm left with a single LED. Next turn I play LED and flashback Past in Flames -> dark rit x3 -> infernal tutor for LED, sac to make UUU. Ponder, ponder, brainstorm -> find a lotus petal for red, burning wish for tendrils. Loved that win.

Round 2 vs 12post
Game1: probe shows no disruption, so a bad ad nauseum into a swarm of goblins on turn 2 gets the job done.
Game2: another grindy match. I am able to shred his hand a bit to stop him from going ham early but it doesn't matter because I am unable to go off before prime time hits the board and gains him a ton of life and emrakul seals the deal.
Game3: I have to mull to 5 (sad panda #2). I make 10 goblins on my turn 2. seemed good enough considering the mull to 5*. Unfortunately he was able to lay a 2/2 blocker, gain just enough life to not die on turn 4 and then prime time stabilizes him. I blocked prime time with 6 goblins to trade, but the posts + eye of ugin are able to take over. Close game.

Round 3 vs Reanimator
Ugh.
Game1: Probe shows no disruption. So probe again, and fetch then Ad nauseum from 15 gets the job done.
Game2: I get xantid swarm out turn 1. But he is able to reanimate elesh norn to kill it and stop the goblin play. Griselbrand came out next turn and he draw a force off of the top 14 to stop me from comboing off (surprise).
Game3: I kinda feel bad about this one because he is a good fella. But we grind for a bit. I discard his business, he counters mine. He exhumes Elesh Norn again to stop the goblins, then I get a turn where I get 7 black mana and an LED then I cast ad nauseum holding an infernal tutor in hand.
He thinks about it out loud and says "well, I lose to ad nauseum, and I lose if you have tutor in hand, so I will force the AdN and hope you don't have it". I couldn't win on the spot there, but I figured I would as least go get a therapy and wreck his hand. So I cast infernal tutor and he scoops and extends the hand. I felt bad and I didn't want to make him feel worse so I just pointed out that if he had just gotten Iona for black those 2 games he would've won.

Round 4 vs death and taxes with blue
Game1: On the draw
Burning wish, infernal tutor, RoF, brainstorm, ponder, gemstone mine, gitaxian probe.
Would you have kept this hand?

I have kept similar hands before and drawn into mana so I decided to just get lucky. He leads off with land -> Mom. Probe shows me thalia, wasteland, plains, true-name, vendillion clique. and I draw a cabal therapy off of the probe. Now I really hate this situation. If I grab thalia, then my only land gets wasted. If I ponder to find a land then Thalia hits the board. So I end up casting ponder to set up a land. Ponder shows me a second burning wish, a city of brass and a brainstorm. I grab city and float brainstorm ontop of burning wish, but this next turns go thalia -> cannonist + wasteland -> then I blacked out a bit and don't remember. Scoop.

Game2: I setup a turn 2 play for 16 goblins. I don't have any hand disruption or probes so I have no idea what he has. His turn 2 he calmly throws out the singleton ratchet bomb from his sideboard. after thalia, spirit of the lab and cannonist get in there, it's all over but the crying.

So 2-2. Not great.

Not sure if I should have waiting a turn or 2 longer against 12post instead of making 10 goblins. I had a good idea 10 wouldn't have been enough, but after a mull to 5, it probably looked better than it actually was.

Any glaring mistakes that I didn't already point out I would love to hear what you think. Also curious to hear what you all would've done with that hand 1 against DnT. I feel like it was a keeper, but turned into a disaster really quick. I also knew he was playing DnT so that should factor into it as well. Maybe I should have just taken Thalia and risked it for the biscuit since he didn't have much else going on in that hand. I don't know. I hate getting wastelanded out.

[ThomasDowd]

I didn't notice the lack of disruption, but I did notice more mana made plowing through soft counters MUCH easier. Sideboarding was a little awkward, mostly because I wasn't sure on what to do yet. I believe that in fast match-ups where we need protection we should be siding out Cabal Rituals, but in fast match-ups where we don't need it (Such as Elves/D&T) we board in the land and tutor instead. I'm still in the process of figuring it all out.

The lack of disruption has me worried versus blue decks but I guess with PiF getting better you shore up some of that.

mainly just worried due to the pretty much strictly blue metagame in my area. infested with bug and tons of CB.

[Royce Walter]

One thing that isn't immediately obvious is that having more mana in the deck means you can afford to Wish for disruption more, which I did notice myself doing more frequently on Saturday.

[akmalik]

Round 1 vs mono black pox
Game1: I also had an infernal tutor and 2 burning wishes in the GY from earlier as well. He ultimates and I'm left with a single LED. Next turn I play LED and flashback Past in Flames -> dark rit x3 -> infernal tutor for LED, sac to make UUU. Ponder, ponder, brainstorm -> find a lotus petal for red, burning wish for tendrils.

It's unlikely that you don't find the red source in 11 cards but with double Wish in grave you can just sac the tutored LED for red and cast both Wish and Tendrils without that gambling (LED, PIF, DR, DR, DR, IT, LED(5b3r in pool), BW, BW, TOA for 20)

[d0nkey]

It's unlikely that you don't find the red source in 11 cards but with double Wish in grave you can just sac the tutored LED for red and cast both Wish and Tendrils without that gambling (LED, PIF, DR, DR, DR, IT, LED(5b3r in pool), BW, BW, TOA for 20)

Good catch, I didn't think about blanking a BW to hit the 10th spell. I really enjoy IT -> LED for UUU to cast cantrips out of past in flames, so I guess I had the tunnel vision goggles on for that one.

[Lemnear]

@ Game against D&T:

That's why hands with a single IMS suck: Thalia, Wasteland and Port take you out so quickly. I'm a bit surprised he maindecked Canonist. Did you know this? I don't think that discussing Therapy vs. Ponder has that much value, but in that situation you have to pick the Thalia and pray that he rather want to work towards the Clique. Thalia is more backbreaking than the Wasteland. This however should not distract from the fact that this hand was just bad against anything other than Miracles. You don't even have a fucking Chance to turn the infernal into value in a reasonable timeframe and FAR to few manasources to combo with Wish BEING ON THE DRAW against D&T.

I would have taken a mulligan here and if the hand wasn't explosive enough either possibly even one to 5 cards. A radical solution if your opponent does NOT KNOW what you are playing, but you can't find a decent starting grip even after 3 tries, is to just scoop the game 1 without playing a single card and profit from your Knowledge advantage in the first postboard game with your opponent being completely clueless, rather than playing out a game 1 which you can't win anyways while helping him with boarding by revealing you are on storm.

[Final Fortune]

If you're that worried about those cards swap out the pair of Duress for the Pyroblasts and side in the Thoughtseize as well. I just haven't been using it as anything other than another Duress, simply no reason to lose life at this point - if the metagame switches back to more hatebears so will we.

I didn't miss Diminishing Returns at all, one thing Royce and I did notice was how much better Past in Flames was.

Don't be so aggressive! I still want Gemstone Mines, we need to be able to support our green cards out of the sideboard. Not to mention, Gemstone Mine does kill itself! In hands where I opened with both, I played Gemstone first and actively tapped it, even on my opponents' end steps for no reason just to get it in the graveyard faster.

If you don't see the versions of Miracles with MD Vendilion Cliques and SB Meddling Mages then Duress is probably better than Thoughtseize vs the meta game, I think it really comes down to the state of Show&Tell and what hate people choose to SB against it because Meddling Mage is "splash hate" vs Storm as far as I'm concerned.

I don't follow, I never suggested cutting Gemstone Mines? I just prefer having more lands over having more rituals, because it lets me mulligan if/when necessary. Either one takes you later into the game, fwiw.

I can't get behind cutting Diminishing Returns, I think you're going to regret it as soon as you run into Jund or Junk, there is no functional equivalent like there is for Ill Gotten Gains.

[Bryant Cook]

If you don't see the versions of Miracles with MD Vendilion Cliques and SB Meddling Mages then Duress is probably better than Thoughtseize vs the meta game, I think it really comes down to the state of Show&Tell and what hate people choose to SB against it because Meddling Mage is "splash hate" vs Storm as far as I'm concerned.

I don't follow, I never suggested cutting Gemstone Mines? I just prefer having more lands over having more rituals, because it lets me mulligan if/when necessary. Either one takes you later into the game, fwiw.

I can't get behind cutting Diminishing Returns, I think you're going to regret it as soon as you run into Jund or Junk, there is no functional equivalent like there is for Ill Gotten Gains.

I may see those decks once an event, where I play against Delver variants 2-3 times an event - the weight isn't evenly distorted.

I misunderstood your suggestion, my issue with that is that more lands means slowing down. That's something I'm not too interested in, if I were, it would mean cutting Chrome Mox.

I'll keep a tally for times I've missed Returns, so far I've gone through an entire event and not wanted it. I didn't hear Royce say he wanted it either, but I could be wrong.

[bryanzoll]

Hey all,

I have decided recently to begin my endeavors as a storm player and made the decision to go with TES. Right now I just feel that it is a stronger option than ANT being faster and has more win cons than 1.

I am putting together the list that was posted by Peter Raab that he won the foil deathrite shamans with. For reference here it is:


Business (29)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Silence
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam

Mana Sources (31)
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard (15)
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroblast
1 Tropical Island
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flame
1 Diminishing Returns

I just have a couple of questions about the deck I am hoping some more experienced players can enlighten me with:

1) When would you bring in Tropical Island and what would you sideout for it? (I am assuming you bring it in against taxing decks like delver, DnT, etc., but just want to confirm)

2) When does the hellbent trigger resolve on Infernal Tutor? Just to clarify, here is a specific scenario: If I cast Ad Nauseam, and I get a bunch of cards in my hand (say 10 randoms, 2 LEDs, 1 Lotus Petal, 1 Infernal Tutor). I then play LEDs + Petal, cast infernal tutor (maintaining priority) sacrifice LEDs, pitch my hand due to LED. At this point, does Infernal tutor become demonic tutor?

Thanks,

Bryan

[Asthereal]

1) For a Chrome Mox, usually.
2) It's not a trigger. You either are hellbent, or you are not. If you are, it's a Demonic Tutor. If you are not, it just gets you an additional copy of one of the cards you have in hand. Which actually is pretty useful every now and then. So you cast Infernal, in response to that (KEEP PRIORITY!!!) you sac the LEDs. That makes you hellbent when Infernal resolves. No cards in hand to copy, so you get what you want. It works just like you said.

[Lemnear]

When does the hellbent trigger resolve on Infernal Tutor? Just to clarify, here is a specific scenario: If I cast Ad Nauseam, and I get a bunch of cards in my hand (say 10 randoms, 2 LEDs, 1 Lotus Petal, 1 Infernal Tutor). I then play LEDs + Petal, cast infernal tutor (maintaining priority) sacrifice LEDs, pitch my hand due to LED. At this point, does Infernal tutor become demonic tutor?

Thanks,

Bryan

...except that you need 2 mana to cast Infernal as LEDs can't pay for it. The example given does not properly work

I am putting together the list that was posted by Peter Raab that he won the foil deathrite shamans with.

Heared of that one

[bryanzoll]

...except that you need 2 mana to cast Infernal as LEDs can't pay for it. The example given does not properly work

Understood, I was just trying to create a scenario to clarify what happens with Infernal tutor post casting...so lets assume the magic gods granted me 2 mana that casted the infernal tutor on my behalf.

[Lemnear]

Understood, I was just trying to create a scenario to clarify what happens with Infernal tutor post casting...so lets assume the magic gods granted me 2 mana that casted the infernal tutor on my behalf.

No big deal. Just wanted to clarify. asthereal said most about the interaction.

A minor remark: Don't board out the Mox for the Tropical against Death & Taxes but rather a Ponder as it is a slow card by nature and you want to explode against D&T asap aka needing the Chrome Mox to get mana on the table quickly. Aside from that, the lists isn't really up to date anymore as it is from december

[bryanzoll]

Understood, I was just trying to create a scenario to clarify what happens with Infernal tutor post casting...so lets assume the magic gods granted me 2 mana that casted the infernal tutor on my behalf.

Gotcha, I really liked the fact you mentioned it was for an open field. Do you have any suggestions on what to make for a 75?

[Lemnear]

Gotcha, I really liked the fact you mentioned it was for an open field. Do you have any suggestions on what to make for a 75?

I'm not sure if this question is asked in regards to the specific recent changes, as the current iteration has cut the Silences and the Cities of Brass for more Fetches and Discard which saw a lot of discussion in this thread lately, or if you had something else in mind. There are several directions in discussion atm

A reminder: Bryant has overhauled the OP