Miracles is the one reason I'd run AEtherling. If you can get it into play (which is a thing), they're basically dead if you have the following: open blue mana, pernicious deed in play, AEtherling in play.
The other thing is Glen Elendra is a h-o-u-s-e, along with Recurring Nightmare. Image gets a decent amount of work done too. Your graveyard becomes another tool to get board presence fast.
My board plan vs Miracles is: Venser, Glen Elendra, Revoker, Golgari Charm (x2), Swan Song (x2) and sometimes Mindbreak Trap. Usually it's all about sticking a Pod, and riding it up the chain. A second Thragtusk is also good. Resolved Thragtusks = Constant Pressure.
Thanks for clarifying. I was wondering what Aetherling was doing in Gleicher's list. I think I'll have to pack one in my board, since Miracles is a real thing. Also, I totally forgot to ask: you were at SCG Cincy?
If you're going to run AEtherling, run it instead of Grave Titan, not in the Board. Like was mentioned previously, it's good in the board, but if you're trying to save space, put it in the main. AEtherling's really good, but it's main downfall is not being able to crowd the board and create blockers (and the Deathtouch is absolutely relevant), but I don't know how relevant it is.
I've considered this move many times but never pulled the trigger on it. The thing that keeps me from doing it is remembering all the games where I got a Grave Titan (sometimes "going off" with it and Recurring Nightmare) and the possibility of the opponent racing me was immediately shut down. Would they have been able to race an Aetherling in those situations? I'm never exactly sure. Anyways, if you try it with the Aetherling let us know when/if you would have preferred it to be Grave Titan.Originally Posted by tadiou
Not sure if you were asking me, but I was not at SCG Cincy.
I like Aetherling as a control finisher for things like bugstill or even a mirror breaker for Deathblade....but not in Nic Fit. I think that we can do a lot better, personally.
A bit out of nowhere but, anybody tried Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the Scapewish lists?
I was one of the two NicFit players (played BUG Pod), but failed hard. Met reanimate r1 and show and tell r2 both with nut draws, so I dropped pretty fast and played Vintage instead.
To bad since i had a good feel about the deck against the field.
Yeah, I tried it right after it came out. It's horrible, don't bother. Scapewish has too many noncreature spells -- Ruric ends up hurting us as much as the opponent. He's also smaller than most Goyfs, so he gets stonewalled pretty easily, and anyone playing white has the option to Karakas it -- or, more damningly, to use their Karakas to control Ruric such that he only hurts us and not them.
-Maybe- in some kind of Natural Order based build, because then it'd actually be fast enough to get out in time to matter vs combo, but Scape isn't that deck.
I have played some more with my BUG pod list and I really like it. My only problem is that the deck is sloooooooooooooow and I would like to add proper finisher against a variety of decks that protects itself. Sigarda would fit this role perfectly, but I quite like not having any uncastable cards, so I'm looking for some sort of replacement. Currently I'm pondering over Kodama of the North Tree and I was wondering if anyone has some experience with this card or some alternatives? Preferably I look for a 5-drop or lower CMC. My other 5-drops are Thragtusk and Acidic Slime, the last one I grew to like quite a bit. Basically I'm cutting a ponder (great Card btw!) for this slot of which I'm not much of a fan. Maybe I will throw out the Acidic slime again and test this setup, but for now I'd like to test an extra finisher. I do not consider Thrun a proper finisher, as it takes him way too long to kill a player as they can so easily chump him, buying themselves plenty of time to find an answer.
On the 3-drops, True-Name Nemesis keeps to perform great and is one of my main kill conditions at the moment. I suppose this is also very playstyle dependent, but it is definitely one of the strongest cards in my deck. Worth a shot!
The deck is slow... really most of the lists are pretty slow and grindy because it gives you the best chance to gain advantage over your fair opponents with incremental advantage that a deck that puts more pressure out may not be able to get.
Proper finishers? Most of the BUG Pod decks play Grave Titan, and for good reason. It's 10 power on the board. Kodama doesn't provide any value, and isn't nearly as strong of a finisher as Grave Titan, having any sort of value when a card ETB's is very very important along all stages, and a 6/4 vanilla beater just isn't worth it. Thragtusk is as good of a beater as any other card in the deck.
But why? If you're playing Pod, why are you adament about a 5 cmc or lower? If you have a few paths to a 6 cmc, you shouldn't be afraid of a 6 CMC card. If you're concerned about a lot of chump blocks, play Thassa.Preferably I look for a 5-drop or lower CMC
I've also had pretty poor experiences with TNN, except in the rare case I copy my opponents TNN and can race them with it.
As to the BUG pod/miracles matchup, I'm thinking about adding a single Taiga to the main for access to a red blast and a pair of slaughter games in the board. Thoughts? Red blast can't be brought in versus wasteland decks, and slaughter games is kind of narrow, but they both seem pretty rad against jace decks, which this deck struggles with.
I had similar thoughts myself. A red splash in Bug Pod lists could enable Red Blast and Slaughter Games in the board, which would be good not only against Miracles but Combo as well. I think it could be doable, and I suppose between 8 green fetches, a singleton Taiga, and 4 Deathrite Shaman you'd probably have the red when you needed it. You could forgo the Force of Will / Envelop / Riptide Pilferer board plan, which would be easier on the wallet but maybe not as effective.
My board would be:
1 venser
2 clique
1 envelop
1 swan song
1 flusterstorm
2 golgari charm
4 force
1 red blast
2 slaughter games
I think I'd want more Red Blasts and / or Pyroblasts in the board. I mean, if you're dropping a fetch or a usable dual maindeck for an essentially nonbasic forest (which is all Taiga would be before boarding), I'd want access to a few more Blast effects. Not sure what to cut for them though. Still new to the deck.
No tournament tonight because of Mother's Day, but I did happen to play one of my most feared matchups at my LGS last night: Burn. Surprisingly, it's fairly even depending on how well we stabilize and how well they top deck gas. You'd be surprised how damning a Thragtusk is to them, and how far Ooze and Deathrite can carry ya until then.
We played two matches, going 2-0 first match and 1-2 second match. The key difference between the two? Goblin Guide was never seen in the first match at all, and he had double Goblin Guide first and third games of the second match.
I sided out 4x Deed, Tabernacle, and Wickerbough and brought in 4x Thoughtseize and 2x Slaughter Games (I have a strong feeling Slaughter Games is reason enough to splash a singleton Taiga in the main) both times. Any thoughts on this?
Thoughts are that you're screwing yourself if he runs/sides in Sulfuric Vortex. Also, some burn decks run/side in Ensnaring Bridges as well -- I would recommend leaving in maybe 2 deeds and the wickerbough for these contingencies.
I'm not completely sold on keeping Deed in: seems a little too slow, especially since the only permanents I saw were Lavamancers, Guides, and Vortexes, and I run 4 Deed, 3 Decay, and 2 Pulse Main now (actually let me post my most recent list after this: might give a better idea of what all I run now). Wickerbough Elder however seems like a good keep though, and Tabernacle is a definite side out.
BUGr Fit (60/15)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dryad Arbor
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
///
3 Inquisition of Kozilek (was 0 during Burn Matches)
2 Thoughtseize (was 4 during Burn Matches)
3 Headhunter
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder (was 2 during Burn Matches)
2 Slaughter Games
2 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge
Hey, thought I'd share a 'new' list I have been working on. Biggest changes are that it includes SFM + Batterskull/Jitte, and a pack of Living Wish.
Too often I lost my first game versus e.d. Thespian Stage combo, and I think being able to use your SB straight away as a toolbox is very neat.
Creatures (9):
3x Veteran Explorer
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Wolfir Silverheart
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thrun, the last Troll
1x Eternal Witness
Spells (30):
4x Green sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Living Wish
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Pernicious Deed
4x Lingering Souls
2x Diabolic Intent
3x Sensei's Divining Top
Land (21):
2x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Savannah
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
// Sideboard
[Fetchable with Living Wish]
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Veteran Explorer
1x Ichneumon Druid
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Peacekeeper
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Maze of Ith
1x Bojuka Bog
[Rest]
1x Choke
4x Leyline of Sanctity
Looking forward to hear your thoughts!
Thoughtseize also seems really bad too against burn. If your main concern is getting Price of Progressed out, you don't need 8 pieces of discard for that. You're handing them a free shock every time you use it, and giving them essentially an extra card (well. .67 cards).
That said. Thragtusk is about 1.5-2 cards in their hand worth of damage prevention. Deed is very important still, maybe not a 4 of, but enough to be able to reliably clear the board of Sulfuric Vortex + Goblin Guide. Giving them extra lands is rarely a bad thing, they get a greater percentage to draw more gas, but their ability to become "explosive" is relatively minor, their damage output is linear for the most part. It's essentially like playing against Sneak and Show in the sense you need both a clock and disruption, and lacking either will make it difficult for victory because they'll eventually combo out on you.
I don't know what you'd bring in Slaughter Games for, I mean, it makes sense, to an extent, but it's not like their ways to kill you are few, like storm or show and tell, they don't have a specific trump card that closes it out for them. What would you name? Price? Fireblast? Bolt? You're still likely only to get 1, maybe 2 cards seen, they live off the top of their deck and redundancy, and unless you're casting 4 Slaughter Games in a game, I think the kind of proactive measures it'd bring aren't nearly strong enough to warrant bringing them in.
Re: Above.
Ichneumon Druid is absolutely hilarious. I approve. I also think the Wolfir Silverheart (I mean, I do love that card v. much) would be much better suited for a Thragtusk. Thragtusk is literally one of the best cards hands down that you can play with 4 GSZ in any format that has miracles & burn. Is Peacekeeper your out vs Sneak and Show? What about Omni-Tell?
I agree that Thoughtseize is bad against Burn: I was more concerned about the Elves' matchup though when I built the side before though. Burn player actually recommended a split (3-2 or 2-2) between Thoughtseize and Inquisition however, so I'm gonna test how that works next time.
With Slaughter Games, I'd probably name Price of Progress first so I can afford to get greedy with my lands (excess green sources to be exact), then probably Sulfuric Vortex afterwards since it actually prevents me from stabilizing my life total with Scavenging Ooze, Deathrite Shaman, or Thragtusk (which is nuts against burn: he actually scooped once I got him out).
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
