[DECK] Lich in Legacy?? You're nut. (prototype)

[sheriffharry]

[DECK] Lich in Legacy?? You're nut. (prototype)

Deck Summary:
The challenge here is to make a crazy combo (Lich/Mirror Universe) viable in Legacy. This will never win a tournament, but the objective is to win some games with something original (may I even venture "bold"..?)

Apart from the combo (with honest mana or Academy Rector gets Lich and Delaying Shield out, Copper Gnomes get the Mirror out), you have a somewhat fast/versatile landbase, some Lich side-effect protection (Gravecrawler interacting with the Scullers, ready for sac and re-sac vs. small beaters), Tutors and an alternative win condition (Death's Shadow).

I couldn't resist putting the Academy Rector into Diabolic Intent combo in there for Omniscience/Enter the Infinite and instant win condition with Lich and Repay in Kind. I know it is silly. There were 2 Lotus Petal in there originally instead.

The land base is what I have/can afford. Of course 4 Scrubland would be better, but let's think semi-"limited budget" here.

The whole thing is just a prototype right now, criticisms and suggestions welcomed.
Especially if you think of an helpful card I haven't considered yet.
(And yes, I know that you can't "pay 2 life" for Godless Shrine once Lich is in)

Here's the deck as it stands now (I have almost all the cards, may try it at a bona fide local tournament in a couple of weeks):

Lands
2x City of Traitors
4x Crystal Vein
1x Diamond Valley
4x Gemstone Mine
2x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
2x Scrubland
1x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Enchantments
1x Delaying Shield
1x Greater Auramancy
2x Lich
1x Omniscience

Instants
4x Dark Ritual
4x Enlightened tutor
2x Life Burst

Sorceries
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Diabolic Intent
1x Enter the Infinite
1x Repay in Kind

Creatures
4x Academy Rector
1x Copper Gnomes
1x Dark Confidant
1x Death's Shadow
3x Gravecrawler
3x Tidehollow Sculler

Artifacts
2x Mirror Universe


Sideboard
1x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Pithing Needle
3x Relic of progenitus
3x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Wasteland

[(nameless one)]

You should look up this deck called Nourishing Lich

[HammafistRoob]

Ach! Source, run! It's the Cavius!

[sheriffharry]

You should look up this deck called Nourishing Lich

What am I suppose to do then... laugh or cry ???

[Darkenslight]

What am I suppose to do then... laugh or cry ???

It's a similar principled combo deck that is always hilarious to see.

[sheriffharry]

It's a similar principled combo deck that is always hilarious to see.

Only problem is mine doesn't quite "combo" all that well as is... I'm missing a piece or two in there, but which ??

[Mr. Froggy]

Ach! Source, run! It's the Cavius!

Amazing!

[sheriffharry]

Amazing!

Not sure there's anything in life worse than having a inside joke going on in your own thread. And behind kept outside.

[ScatmanX]

Search for a Nourishing Lich thread. And all topics that have those cards involved. And, of course, Cavius, the Great.

Enviado de meu GT-S6313T usando Tapatalk

[FTW]

Search for Lulz
Sent by "T: Talk"

Fixed

[sheriffharry]

Here's what I figured out so far:
Lich fans will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

There is no such things as justice in Legacy forums.

[ESG]

Sheriffharry, your thread title -- "Lich in Legacy?? You're nut. (prototype)" -- implies that you know how unviable a combo deck built around Lich would be, yet you seem a little hurt that people have chosen to poke fun at your concoction. You acknowledge that your deck doesn't combo so well and that you're seeking a way to make it better. Please take into account that this is rather like someone posting a Grizzly Bear deck and asking for card suggestions to make it work better. Ultimately, there's a low ceiling on how well your Lich deck is going to work. Your idea also has the unintentional connection to Cavius, a Source character of some infamy, so it comes with some baggage when being taken seriously. I hope this does not dissuade you from engaging members of The Source if you sincerely want to make your deck better.

You are a new poster, so nobody knows your experience level and whether you are new to Legacy. If you are new to Legacy, there can be a lot to take in. Judging from your deck construction and your sideboard, I'm going to assume you are NOT new to Legacy but simply have an off-the-wall idea that you want to run for the fun of it.

I think it's fine to take any sort of deck to a Legacy tournament for a sort of crash course. You get to see what the deck loses to and, perhaps if you're lucky, what it beats. You can then refine it to have better matchups against those decks. You can also do this at home via proxied decks and two-fisted testing or testing with a friend, but most people who are invested in a wacky niche strategy don't have the drive to pursue such methodology, whereas a grinder who was trying to master a Tier I deck would, because if his practice enables him to win a tournament, then he essentially has paid for his time. You know going in that your deck has long-shot odds of succeeding, so this is more or less a passion project.

The general hurdles your deck must overcome are that it is a two-card combo deck in which neither of the pieces is spectacular. On top of this, both pieces are mana-intensive, which means you are going to be slower than most of the competing decks. Enlightened Tutor, Academy Rector, and Diabolic Intent help with consistency, and Dark Ritual and your Sol lands help a little with speed. You have a plan B via creature beatdown, although Dark Confidant seems not optimal given that you are playing a number of high-casting-cost spells. It also seems unlikely that you will draw enough zombies to make Gravecrawler worthwhile, although the ability to reuse it for Diabolic Intent is nice. I suspect that Duress would be more helpful in these slots. Tidehollow Sculler provides disruption as well as being a clock, so it's a more worthy inclusion than Gravecrawler.

My advice would be to try to tune this deck to beat the ones that show up frequently at your local game store. Take note of which decks are present, and then share that information here. Other posters will be able to give better suggestions when you can provide them with more information.

[Mystical_Jackass]

I've toyed around with Academy Rector + Diabolic Intent more just trolling games in EDH, so I have some experience with it.

Now, you gotta ask yourself what this deck can do that Show & Tell-->Omniscience/Emrakul/Griselbrand can't do better (which is pretty much everything). Personally, I think you have a little too much of everything going on from looking at it, I know you wanted to make this a Lich deck but you'd be better off just dropping it, Repay in Kind, and some of those random cards and make a more dedicated protected Academy Rector/Diabolic Intent pseudo combo deck.


Ideas I'm throwing out to you:

Combo/Win
4x Academy Rector
4x Diabolic Intent
1x Omniscience
1x Rune-scarred Demon

4x Mother of Runes (protection)
4x Tidehollow Sculler (sure, its a good card why not)
4x Stonecloaker (main deck gy removal, and his ETB bounce effect can infinitely bounce the Demon after you combo, as well as bounce/protect your creatures too)
4x Baleful Strix???
1x Cavern Harpy??? (wincon similar to Stonecloaker, would let you infinitely bounce back your Demon though for 1 life and draw out your deck)

4x "hand removal"???
4x Swords to Plowshare???
4x Brainstorm (draw/tucking Omniscience or Demon???)


...something to think about. But the point is, the deck I'm showing you is more focused and less all-over-the-place. You need it to be resilient, but also consistent and not just lose to itself 'cause its all over the place.

[sheriffharry]

Thanks for the very constructive criticism.

I'll give all those ideas a shot and come back to you if any hits gold.

[sheriffharry]

Hello again!
I've done my homework and played my deck extensively on MTGO for 6 weeks.

Here is the philosophy:
Disrupt opponent's hand with Thoughtseize, Orim's Chant and Tidehollow Scullers and try to achieve one of those three winning combos:

1) Sacrifice Academy Rector into Diabolic Intent and put Omniscience and Enter the infinite on the table. (play all the TideHollw Scullers before to clear the way). Instant win with Lich and Repay in Kind.

2) Play Lich (with Academy rector) + Mirror Universe (with Copper Gnomes)

3) Go the hard way: play Blightsteel Colossus (tutored the turn before) with Copper Gnomes.

Here is the current version:

Legacy Lich v 4.0

Land base
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
2x Scrubland
2x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

The combos + enablers
2x Lich
2x Mirror Universe
4x Dark Ritual
4x Academy Rector
4x Diabolic Intent
4x Copper Gnomes
1x Repay in Kind
2x Omniscience
1x Enter the Infinite
1x Blightsteel Colossus

Some protection
4x TideHollow Sculler
2x Orim's Chant
1x Council's Judgment
2x Mother of Runes
2x Thoughtseize

Draw/Tutors
4x Rhystic Tutor

Sideboard (the usual anti-grave, anti-combo stuff)
3x Pithing Needle
3x Rest in Peace
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Chalice of the Void
2x Swords to Plowshares


I've had some success against Burn, Reanimate, 12-Post, Elves, and any slower deck.

I'm still struggling against Storm, Delver, Tarmogoyf, Miracles/Counterbalance, Pox and Death and Taxes (and any counterspell-heavy decks)

Constructive criticism would be very welcomed at this point. Thx!

[Bobmans]

I think that there are to many cards spent on different angles of getting A combo going. If you where to focus on just one solid combo and build protection, discard, permission, draw and acceleration of some kind the deck will become more consistant. I really love Lich is used as a combo, but i think that it is far more easy to get rector on the board and then diabolic intent into Omniscience and a wincon, say Emrakul (since he cannot be countered). As additional sac outlets you can both use Cabal Therapy, to make sure you can cast you're combo pieces, or Innocent Blood, to get rid of creatures like goyf or TNN. If you go with blue you could also play permission like a Reanimator list or go with red and have a Burning Wish plan of some sort. As already said before, you need to be resilient. This was just a wild thought.

If you really want to go with LICH, then it will be harder to get a solid base list. Maybe go the storm like route. Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Tendrils of Agony, Soul Feast, Skirge Familiar. Maybe you should check out zome old lists from the time of Urza Block and Yagmoth's Bargain:

Rector/bargain
Link to an older vintage list

Hope it helps.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Not bad, I like your Sculler/MOM package, here's maybe an idea of a descent more focused Core to consider:

+4 Land Tax
+4 Scroll Rack (draw/tuck away engine)

+4 Mother of Runes
+4 Tidehollow Sculler
+4 Ethersword Cannonist (slow them down)

+4 Academy Rector
+4 Diabolic Intent
+1 Omniscience
+1 Emrakul

+4 Swords to Plowshare
+4 Thoughtseize
+2 Vindicate

Lands
Fetches
Scrubs
Plenty of Basics
1-2x Cavern of Souls? (You won't want Phyrex Tower or Urborg really)


Something I sketched up, I think that would be much more crisp though using a similar concept, just not Lich.

[FTW]

Rector Bargain shell won't even work because that version of "Standard" allowed you to play cards like Griselhardcast, Yawgmoth's Win, 4 Vampiric Tutor