assumptions:Originally Posted by amalek0
they play an amount of creatues less than, or equal to your punishing fire/maze of ith.
you stick an exploration, that doesnt get discarded or hit with abrupt decay.
you solve their lilliana
you can race their mana, their Waste as well as deal w. critters.
moon effects dont kill you.
?
"Brainstorm and Fetchlands are interesting although I don't know if Brainstorms alone are worth it right now, because Stifle is a common card. " -Peddi 2015.
Pretty much this. Jund is a fair matchup, definitely not an easy one.
-They play an amount of creatures less than, or equal to your punishing fire/maze of ith.
Pretty much yeah. The point of the Pfire engine is it's repeatable, and the only dude they play that can't be hit with one pfire activation that I've seen is goyf. Thrun from the SB is the only creature they play that I'm remotely worried about, because DRS, Bob, and bloodbraid all die to one punishing fire. post-board, if they have thrun it's a 1-of and engineered explosives can get there.
-you stick an exploration, that doesn't get discarded or hit with abrupt decay
where in my game plan does sticking an exploration come in? You don't need exploration active to shred their mana base once they stabilize, I've gone on the ghost-quarter plan against jund before with only one land-drop per turn after stabilizing and it worked fine. It's not a clean or fast way to end the match, but it does work if you're forced to it.
-you solve their liliana
Yes, liliana is the big threat in the matchup, which is why you have 3 pfires and 2-3 engineered explosives mainboard. As with miracles though, it isn't the first lili ult that ends the game, it's the 2nd one. And, being a loam deck, we don't hurt as badly playing off the top as they do, it's not uncommon to find the jund player not wanting to + liliana because they have action in hand. and post-board, I bring in every punishing fire, every engineered explosives, and if I have it pithing needle for her. I also have a tarpit main, so there's that. Games pre- and post-board can be determined by whether they get to ride liliana.
-you can race their mana, their waste as well as critters
Well hmm. I'm not sure if there's any deck not packing dark rituals that can race the potential for mana production lands has just as a rule of thumb. wastelands can randomly blow you out, sure. It's a race to stabilize, but it's a straightforward one. We play life from the loam, and they don't run extra card-draw aside from a sylvan library or two, so I don't really see how they plan to out-gas us going long. Note that in fair matchups, your first goal isn't to choke their mana, it's to stabilize the board and not-die. Jund is a matchup where I often cut ports when sideboarding, because they really aren't as tight on the mana as you want them to be, and you have other angles you're trying to attack. shredding their mana base is a win-con, not your initial goal. Your goal should be to get engineered explosives or punishing fire recursion going ASAP in order to survive, then start looking for a way to win.
-Moon effects don't kill you
Yeah. Bloodmoon hurts. If they take seemingly greedy mulligan decisions (quick mulls, etc) assume they're digging for a moon or a leyline in their opener and consider your keep appropriately. If you see moon game 2, there's the krosan grips in the board for a reason, or entomb-ray of revelation if you're on that plan. If you see moon game 1 and they don't kill you with painter's servant or play sol lands, call a judge and see if you get a free game win.
Like someone said below, jund is a fair matchup. That doesn't mean it's easy to navigate correctly, or that it's a free win, but it does mean there's a fairly simple procedure to winning in general--stabilize, set up a repeatable engine to bury them in card advantage, then find a way to win.
EDIT: I should add my mainboard is set up with only one depths and one stage, I'm very heavy on the interaction with midrange-ish builds game one, based on my assumption that there's very few cards that matter in the miracles matchup, and that my combo g1 is either complete trash or close to it. I have 2 intuition, 2 tolaria, 2 thickets, 3 mazes, 3 EE's, 3 pfires, 3 groves mainboard, along with a crucible, oblivion stone, and zuran orb. I have all of that space for fair stuff by only having one copy of each part of the combo and no crop rotations or gamble/entomb and a slightly greedy fetch-base with 3 green fetches and 2 trops, 1 taiga 1 bayou 1 forest
What level of success have people posting here achieved with Lands decks? I built the Kurt Spiess version of the deck earlier this year, and I've messed around with it a bit, and I'm thinking about branching out to a more traditional version of the deck. I'm interested to see what kind of results people get overall, and how they differ between the traditional version and the combo-oriented version.
I've kept track of my (mostly MTGO) tournament results. So far I'm 81-42 in tournament matches.
I top 8'ed Nashville with Control Lands and money'd at ATL and KNOX. I'm too lazy to check mtgtop8 but I believe there was one other top 8 with Control Lands and maybe 2-3 other top 8's with RG Combo Lands after Kurt Speiss's win/first top 8?
I don't think I've seen Jund Lands since it's first top 8 in January. The Bant/Living Wish list also only ever top 16'd at the GP.
I think you will find that the people that post normally in this thread will have a lot of success with lands regardless of the shell that they play. Lands players are pretty much specialists in the deck. People either love playing it or hate playing it.
I personally pretty much only play the combo shell now and have given up on the control shell. I average about of 80% match win percentage (over 100 match's IRL) in a highly competitive community with the only real problems that I have run into is the local BUG Delver masters and the one/two Miracle players and I am 50/50 against them.
If your looking for deck choice between the control shell or the combo shell it really comes down to personal preference. If you have all cards to build the combo shell its should be pretty reasonable to pick up the rest of the cards to build the control shell.
We are actually doing a bit of work on the primer and we have included 2 new sections: one about recent placing and another about recent reports. It should help people answer this kind of question :)
So, who needs foil Explorations? ^^
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi...ly/arcana/1497
Dat missdirection will be worht like $$$$$$$$$
you mean foil japanese exporations
Meh, not a fan. I like keeping it OG korean, but id be up for a judge foil like hierarch
I want those explorations in foil, but how much $$ are foil rares from this set gonna go for? obviously, it's gonna crash the price on nonfoil explorations hard, maybe back down to the $10-$15 range, but are the foils gonna stay ridiculous?
i do not think with the re-print of exploration, the price of the old ones will drop much.
instead, it will increase in price for both the new and old version of exploration.
because many ppl will want to have a set of their own and the new exploration will be sought after.
so my prediction:
price increase for exploration.
primeval titan have spoken. he is pleased with the reprint.
This set is not modern legal, so i don't think he is that Prime time is pleased with this reprint. I mean exploration is only ran in about 4 decks in legacy and all of them but "lands" are pretty fringe
7-2-1 in Somerset finishing 27th. Punted vs D&T, but had great matches all day. Didn't see any other Lands do well.
Congrats. And I want to hear the story behind DnT ^^
Right, so I sequenced my land drops horribly and was a land behind since t2 because I forgot I had exploration out. That held back EE capability because the next turn he dropped Thalia. When I saw vial at 3 I knew he had eot tricks and banked on him using vial. I declared eot and he tapped vial. At this point I was thinking to respond with crop rotation for a sweeping tabernacle, but if he had flickerwisp he could have hit tabernacle with it so I figured I'll wait for the wisp to come in and target and then I can crop. Besides, aven mincensor is a one of in the deck... Down comes bird and I rotate a land out only to find a grove in the top 4. Punted here cause g1 had enough life to survive that attack if wisp did indeed blink out tab. G2 he revokered irrelevant cards all game and I didn't play a twest tapped a turn earlier to ee for 2 in time.
Last round I had to win at 6-2-1. He wins the roll and does t1 chalice. Ok not the greatest against me but then I look at my hand again and see it blanks half my hand. I draw a maze, play heath, and pass. He plays magus and I fetch a trop. Things are looking grim. I have a forest in hand so I play it out. I draw pfire and pass after playing forest. Not afraid of painter/blast LD with chalice so i figured it was safe(it was). He plays a 1/3 trample dude that can basically draw cards and seal the deal. I draw and play maze. He plays mountains from here and I fire the magus and maze the other dude. From here I can loam to dig for a grove because he only has deck space for dudes so no actual blood moon fits. After I get a grove I stop digging to break out of chalice. The whole time maze is stopping his dork and after i ee for 0 i double exploration and build all the mana. Crop got marit when i had the kill available because chasm held back his 3 dudes at this point and i dont need maze with chasm out and pfire lock for magus. Eot the chasm away to put him to one and burn the face. G2 was insane and only drew all the sb cards. T1 bob with grip in hand and he has no removal. He t2 moons this time but the other grip i flip to bob is timely. I play land and pass after swinging in and play bob #two. He plays mountain #2 and trinisphere? Sweet. I draw 3 cards lose 1 life. Grip his moon waste his sol land and he locks himself out. Next turn i have port up and he cant play spells. Double bob beats face till the end with exploration deployed to further pull ahead under trinisphere.
Last edited by snorlaxcom; 05-26-2014 at 11:31 AM.
FYI: If you cast EE for G, paying R for the Thalia cost, it still comes into play with two counters, and so on.
Thanks for the tip (important vs vials). I only seem to remember that with 3 sphere, but the play was to twest for ee. I was unsure wether to play the twest tapped as the second blue source and draw into another. The next turn i drew twest so i should have played towards drawing into one more agressively. Once i drew the second t west i played it and tutored for ee the following turn.
Other loss was to elves and draw was to aggro loam.
Last edited by snorlaxcom; 05-26-2014 at 11:29 AM.
So unless you have a land that produces colorless mana Thalia, Guardian of Thraben prevents Engineered Explosives at 0?
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