All B/R update speculation.

[Rizso]

Mental misstep was a 1 mana timewalk most of the time. is just a to unfair card. Forces everyone to run 4 . Makes most combo decks useless, combo outside of hivemind where unplayable.

[Dark Ritual]

Continuing with the comparison to mental misstep for a moment, MM was in a lot of different decks too.

The thing that makes MM such an issue is that it's oppressive in addition to being overpowered. For all I know, Brainstorm is actually more overpowered than MM, but gets away with it by being subtle.

There were TWO dominant decks at the end of the MM era. UW Stoneblade and NO RUG. Those were the best decks in the format by far.

Hilarious Death. One of those cards is safe and the other 3 break legacy in half. Oh and mystical tutor + oath in the same deck? That sounds completely reasonable in storm combo. Oath wasn't safe when the best card to cheat in with it was akroma/generic fatty. Now look at the fatties that are being printed (griselbrand, emrakul, etc. etc.) Oathing those up is obscene. 1G: Make a griselbrand/Draw 14. That sounds so fair. Add in dragon breath to any fatty and it is actually just a trigger that wins the game on the spot as good luck beating hasty emrakul short of karakas being in play and untapped to use on it but too bad karakas doesn't work on griselbrand as they draw 14 in response and go tons of rituals into past in flames/win anyways as past in flames is pretty absurd when you have 20+ cards in your graveyard.

Survival has been beaten to death. "There are answers" isn't relevant to a card being banworthy or not. There are answers to every single card in magic. Doesn't make the card fair.

[Feaor]

Oath is clearly fine, S&T + Griselbrand is far too many hoops to jump through, we need to bring it down to only needing one card. /s

In all honesty, the only cards I can think of right now that should be considered are Vise and Twist. Both of these cards are at lot less scary then they appear and they somewhat help fight blue strategies which are doing very well right now. Honestly I doubt either of these cards would do anything at all if they were unbanned and its honestly a bit puzzling as to why they are still there.

[Zombie]

Oath is clearly fine, S&T + Griselbrand is far too many hoops to jump through, we need to bring it down to only needing one card. /s

In all honesty, the only cards I can think of right now that should be considered are Vise and Twist. Both of these cards are at lot less scary then they appear and they somewhat help fight blue strategies which are doing very well right now. Honestly I doubt either of these cards would do anything at all if they were unbanned and its honestly a bit puzzling as to why they are still there.

The other side is that if they have any effect on the format, it is very unlikely to be positive, as in increasing the number of fun and mutually entertaining games played. If they do nothing or make the format worse, might as well keep the suckers banned.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

There were TWO dominant decks at the end of the MM era. UW Stoneblade and NO RUG. Those were the best decks in the format by far.

Hilarious Death. One of those cards is safe and the other 3 break legacy in half. Oh and mystical tutor + oath in the same deck? That sounds completely reasonable in storm combo. Oath wasn't safe when the best card to cheat in with it was akroma/generic fatty. Now look at the fatties that are being printed (griselbrand, emrakul, etc. etc.) Oathing those up is obscene. 1G: Make a griselbrand/Draw 14. That sounds so fair. Add in dragon breath to any fatty and it is actually just a trigger that wins the game on the spot as good luck beating hasty emrakul short of karakas being in play and untapped to use on it but too bad karakas doesn't work on griselbrand as they draw 14 in response and go tons of rituals into past in flames/win anyways as past in flames is pretty absurd when you have 20+ cards in your graveyard.

Survival has been beaten to death. "There are answers" isn't relevant to a card being banworthy or not. There are answers to every single card in magic. Doesn't make the card fair.

But abrupt decay so good

[btm10]

There were TWO dominant decks at the end of the MM era. UW Stoneblade and NO RUG. Those were the best decks in the format by far.

Hilarious Death. One of those cards is safe and the other 3 break legacy in half. Oh and mystical tutor + oath in the same deck? That sounds completely reasonable in storm combo. Oath wasn't safe when the best card to cheat in with it was akroma/generic fatty. Now look at the fatties that are being printed (griselbrand, emrakul, etc. etc.) Oathing those up is obscene. 1G: Make a griselbrand/Draw 14. That sounds so fair. Add in dragon breath to any fatty and it is actually just a trigger that wins the game on the spot as good luck beating hasty emrakul short of karakas being in play and untapped to use on it but too bad karakas doesn't work on griselbrand as they draw 14 in response and go tons of rituals into past in flames/win anyways as past in flames is pretty absurd when you have 20+ cards in your graveyard.

Survival has been beaten to death. "There are answers" isn't relevant to a card being banworthy or not. There are answers to every single card in magic. Doesn't make the card fair.

I'm not going to disagree about Oath. However, there being a huge number of robust and otherwise playable answers to the most degenerate uses of a card are factors relevant to an unban discussion. The Survival issue has been hashed out a thousand times, so I'm not going to reiterate the other side of the argument.

Instead, we can all agree on Earthcraft deserving an unban and that Drain is probably too good to be unbanned.

[Dice_Box]

Earthcraft? Yea, Enchantress could use the boost. I mean Lands got its boost and became a real deck again, no reason not to do that with Enchantress.

[Lemnear]

I'm not going to disagree about Oath. However, there being a huge number of robust and otherwise playable answers to the most degenerate uses of a card are factors relevant to an unban discussion. The Survival issue has been hashed out a thousand times, so I'm not going to reiterate the other side of the argument.

Instead, we can all agree on Earthcraft deserving an unban and that Drain is probably too good to be unbanned.

Sorry but the arguments FOR the UNBANNING of SotF usually boil down to "It is a classic", "it was fair until WotC decided to powercreep on creatures", "WotC can just ban every degenerate creature instead" and "There is hate for it".

Especially the last one makes me rolling my eyes every time I read it in this thread as in Reality, Survival-decks just smashed your face with creatures if you manage to keep Survival (as a card) in Check with massive hate.

[Quasim0ff]

There were TWO dominant decks at the end of the MM era. UW Stoneblade and NO RUG. Those were the best decks in the format by far.

Reanimator was up there too, remember? :)

[Barook]

There were TWO dominant decks at the end of the MM era. UW Stoneblade and NO RUG. Those were the best decks in the format by far.

Go the to DTB thread to the October 2011 post on page 2. Maverick was up there, too.

As far as format diversity goes, even a warped format like the MM one looked "diverse".

Arguably, the current one is even worse when you look at the numbers BUG Delver and Miracles put up, compared to other decks.

[HSCK]

Go the to DTB thread to the October 2011 post on page 2. Maverick was up there, too.

As far as format diversity goes, even a warped format like the MM one looked "diverse".

Arguably, the current one is even worse when you look at the numbers BUG Delver and Miracles put up, compared to other decks.

Each of those decks is only 8%, and the top 12 decks are 65%, before TNN those same 12 decks were 85% of the placing decks with Jund and RUG each having a share of 15%+. So I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of health.

[Megadeus]

15/16 Brainstorms, 9/16 Delvers in T16.

#DiverseFormat
#UbiquityCanGoToHell

[nedleeds]

15/16 Brainstorms, 9/16 Delvers in T16.

#DiverseFormat
#UbiquityCanGoToHell

#pillaroftheformat
#skillintensive
#idquitiftheybannedit
#someunrelatedargumentaboutvintage

[HammafistRoob]

#pillaroftheformat
#skillintensive
#idquitiftheybannedit
#someunrelatedargumentaboutvintage

Good list but you forgot.....

#fuckoffandcastsomeboltsredplayer

I actually got that one a few months back. People are delusional if they think brainstorm is fine, I mean I love miracles and Brainstorm practically holds that deck together. But I can at least see that it is too damn good for legacy at this point, and it should get the axe. Do I think it will? No, but it definitely should since it lets people win after making bad keeps and practically invalidates non blue decks for not being consistent enough. There's too much flexibility when you're playing a blue shell.

[Barook]

Good list but you forgot.....

#fuckoffandcastsomeboltsredplayer

I actually got that one a few months back. People are delusional if they think brainstorm is fine, I mean I love miracles and Brainstorm practically holds that deck together. But I can at least see that it is too damn good for legacy at this point, and it should get the axe. Do I think it will? No, but it definitely should since it lets people win after making bad keeps and practically invalidates non blue decks for not being consistent enough. There's too much flexibility when you're playing a blue shell.

You also forgot the good old

#withoutbrainstormbelcherwillmurderyou

Even without Brainstorm, blue decks would be more consistent than non-blue decks, but the spread would be alot closer, especially since brainstorming in response to everything like a trained monkey isn't an option anymore if all viable cantrips are sorceries. God forbid your turns actually take planning instead of just waiting on everything, just because you can.

[ahg113]

It's one event guys, that's not a valid sample size to make broad statements about the entire meta. It's only one event in the US as well, excluding Europe, Russia and Japan. Stop being butthurt, isolated incident. #derp

#amirite?

[Dice_Box]

It's one event guys, that's not a valid sample size to make broad statements about the entire meta. It's only one event in the US as well, excluding Europe, Russia and Japan. Stop being butthurt, isolated incident. #derp

#amirite?

I am sorry mate but your wrong. I am on the "No not ban" train. I have been fairly vocal about it, but the one thing I will admit that the "Ban Brainstorm" crowd have going for them is that the card has the highest penetration of any other card in the format by a good margin. I mean go here and click back over the last 24 months. I will bet you that each and every month, Brainstorm has the most played slot.

So I will give you a sample size of 24 months. Your wrong. I still don't want it banned though.

[ahg113]

I am sorry mate but your wrong. I am on the "No not ban" train. I have been fairly vocal about it, but the one thing I will admit that the "Ban Brainstorm" crowd have going for them is that the card has the highest penetration of any other card in the format by a good margin. I mean go here and click back over the last 24 months. I will bet you that each and every month, Brainstorm has the most played slot.

So I will give you a sample size of 24 months. Your wrong. I still don't want it banned though.

Yes, I am wrong. I thought italics could be used as /sarcasm font. Another indicator must be used. Pound sign, "Am i correct?" also did not convey my tongue in cheek comment.

I am in the, devalue blue camp. I'm fine with blue keeping Brainstorm, with the instant removal of Delver and True-Name. Otherwise, screw brainstorm, scrap it.

And, it's "you're", not "your".

[Dice_Box]

Oh man, the your/you are thing. Meh. Welcome to the internet. Enjoy you're stay.

[ahg113]

Thank you for the warm welcome. The internet has been splendid so far. I am excited for what the future holds. Any recommendations? What are the best tubes from which to explore the stuff the dump trucks drop-off?