[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[trollking21]

For those with artifact mutation in the sideboard, do you board it in against Shardless BUG? They often only have 4 targets but hitting a Shardless agent with it is a high value play. I've had mixed results with it so far

[BKclassic]

For those with artifact mutation in the sideboard, do you board it in against Shardless BUG? They often only have 4 targets but hitting a Shardless agent with it is a high value play. I've had mixed results with it so far

Given that Shardless Agent isn't really a threat to us (outclassed by Mongoose and Goyf, Delver goes over the top), the only resource I would want to expend on Shardless Agent is a Stifle on it's triggered ability. I would hate to be on Artifact Mutation when they are on DRS, Goyf or Liliana. Granted I don't play Artifact Mutation but that doesn't sound like a good place to be.

[Quasim0ff]

Given that Shardless Agent isn't really a threat to us (outclassed by Mongoose and Goyf, Delver goes over the top), the only resource I would want to expend on Shardless Agent is a Stifle on it's triggered ability. I would hate to be on Artifact Mutation when they are on DRS, Goyf or Liliana. Granted I don't play Artifact Mutation but that doesn't sound like a good place to be.

You find shardless EASY?

I find the matchup real, real hard. How do you play it?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'd board it in. anything that hits Strix/Jitte and gives us attackers (although only tow mere 1/1 saprolings) is pretty decent. Also, while Shardless Agent is hardly a clock, it's pretty funny to Stifle/counter the cascade, then kill the blocker and make three dudes in the process.

[GoblinZ]

For those with artifact mutation in the sideboard, do you board it in against Shardless BUG? They often only have 4 targets but hitting a Shardless agent with it is a high value play. I've had mixed results with it so far

I used to board in one ancient grudge against shardless BUG...I don't like the idea to kill their shardless bear, but it is worth playing it because of their baleful strix.

[BKclassic]

You find shardless EASY?

I find the matchup real, real hard. How do you play it?

I am just trying to say that the best answer to Shardless Agent is Stifle since a vanilla 2/2 is outclassed by everything in our deck. Shardless BUG certainly is a tight match-up, I wouldn't waste a slot on Artifact Mutation against an unknown opponent. Many Shardless players are playing less Strix's (see Lejay's list) and I haven't seen anyone playing Jitte in Shardless BUG anytime recently, but if you are in your local meta or something and you KNOW your opponent is on 4x Strix and equipment, Artifact Mutation is certainly more reasonable. Cards that I would consider effective against Shardless BUG would be Pyroblast and Submerge. The key to beating Shardless BUG is to advance your board state in such that your opponent is going to have to have a perfect draw to beat you. Keep advancing your board state and don't be afraid to FoW aggresively. This is a great match up for Gitaxian Probe because it will expose the weaknesses in your opponents hand, and it will keep you drawing into more threats and Stifles. Shardless BUG plays slow haymakers. Maximize your mana each turn and you should be able to stay ahead. Submerge will put you back in the driver's seat if your opponent is starting on Deathrite Shaman when you are on the draw (although if you have a burn spell you should probably just use that). I board out 4 FoW (2 Daze, 2 FoW on the draw) for 2 Pyroblast and 2 Submerge.

[Contract Killer]

Since when do you ever keep FOW in against Shardless BUG? It's card disadvantage against the deck with the most card advantage in legacy. On top of that they have Hymn and Lili causing for situations where casting FOW might not even be an option. I understand wanting some counterspells on the draw, but still it's just so bad in that match up.

[poxy14]

I used to board in one ancient grudge against shardless BUG...I don't like the idea to kill their shardless bear, but it is worth playing it because of their baleful strix.

+1, ancient grudge will be of value here, their strix acts as removal too on our crits ounce they block any of em..well..

@contract killer: ive always boarded out fows vs this matchup...i would rather have some numbers of reb instead of fow, and definitely i would insert in pierces, submerges, needles...but fow will surely hit the bench.

[trollking21]

My current boarding plan is out
4/2 Force
2/4 daze
In
1 TNN
2 REB
2 Submerge
1 artifact mutation- I also have grudge would that be a better board in? I'm doubting that both are necessary.

It's been okay, the 2 TNN's after board help a lot and I get a some random wins, but they are still favored quite a bit in my experience. Blowing up Shardless agent or baleful strix can be a way to stay alive, or deal some surprise damage.

[Zombie]

Mutation seems iffy to me on paper at least. Basically all of BUG's creatures outclass the 1-2 tokens you get, and as mentioned the bear isn't the scary thing in Shardless Agent. To me using Grudge to undermine their grip of the board seems like a much better way to go - without Strixes they have to start sacrificing actual cards to defend their planeswalkers, and that sounds like a good spot for RUG. I mean, throw an actual beater at a Strix so a couple tokens maybe get through and then just get eaten by Agents and Deathrites, or blow the Strixes the hell up and attack with superior creatures that can continue to force them into uncomfortable situations?

[trollking21]

I'll see if I can get a friend to grid a dozen games or so tonight and see if ancient grudge is better then mutation.

[Dice_Box]

If your discussion point is facing down a deck with discard, forgoing tokens for the ability to keep your Spell live against disruption seams like the way to go.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

If your discussion point is facing down a deck with discard, forgoing tokens for the ability to keep your Spell live against disruption seams like the way to go.

Yep. The reason why I took Mutation alongside Grudge is that Shardless plays quite a lot of artifact targets and I want to have one ready when they play Strix, Jitte or even the Agent. It's better to have a mere pair of 1/1 tokens than stare at Stryx and it's better to have the same mere tokens than to face Jitte and yes, it's better to have three mere tokens than attack into a chumpblocker. I'm not saying that the whole idea of sbing the artifact hate is valid, maybe it's unnecessary, esp. against the versions without equipments and/or those with lesser number of Strixes. However I still feel that both these cards are valuable IF you decide to destroy their artifacts and somehow profit (slightly afvance your board state or gain CA), so it's not like Mutation cannot be taken in.
For me the more important and interesting question is: is it worht to sb those cards at all? I guess when facing a 4/4/2 Stri/Agent/equips versions, then it's out of question, otoh, I played quite some games in the past days and unfortunatel the whole plan failed.

[rlesko]

Played in a 4 round legacy tournament...went 2-2

54 RUG -1 Stifle +2 Spell Pierce +2 Forked Bolt +2 G Probe + 1 Spell Snare

SB

1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Submerge
2 REB
2 Rough
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip

beat miracles 2-1 (big misplay on his part of not cracking EE @ 1 with unflipped delver and mongoose - he allowed delver to flip). I boarded like -2 Forked Bolt -2 Stifle -2 Daze +2 REB +1 Krosan Grip +1 Pithing Needle +2 Spell Pierce

beat Elves 2-0
rough was a blowout. forked bolt also a blowout. I boarded like -3 stifle -2 Daze +2 Submerge +2 Rough +1 Grafdigger's Cage

lost to Junk
vague recollection of the 3 games but i remember i fork bolted a confidant and dryad arbor and it felt amazing.

i sided like -2 daze -2 spell pierce -2 FoW +2 submerge +2 surgical +1 ancient grudge +1 krosan grip.
I think I need a better card for these type of MU because sometimes you just dont have the answers for all the threats. DRS, SFM, Bob, goyf, KOTR, etc...any SB help here would be great. I remember I brought in surgical expecting loams because he did play a mox diamond but there were none in his list, so this was definitely a mistake. shrug.

lost to UWr delver
kept a 1 lander with a ponder. ponder revealed no more land so i shuffled. he wasted me next turn. never drew more lands. similar scenario game 2. lost of wastelands for him, no lands for me :(. i stifled an early fetch of his but he later told me after the match he kept a 4 lander so that stifle ended up being sub optimal. i think i sided like

-2 daze -2 fow +2 REB +1 ancient grudge +1 krosan grip

I think this game was mostly just bad luck, as i feel pretty comfortable with the MU.

[Contract Killer]

Played in a 4 round legacy tournament...went 2-2

54 RUG -1 Stifle +2 Spell Pierce +2 Forked Bolt +2 G Probe + 1 Spell Snare

SB

1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Submerge
2 REB
2 Rough
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip

beat miracles 2-1 (big misplay on his part of not cracking EE @ 1 with unflipped delver and mongoose - he allowed delver to flip). I boarded like -2 Forked Bolt -2 Stifle -2 Daze +2 REB +1 Krosan Grip +1 Pithing Needle +2 REB

beat Elves 2-0
rough was a blowout. forked bolt also a blowout. I boarded like -3 stifle -2 Daze +2 Submerge +2 Rough +1 Grafdigger's Cage

lost to Junk
vague recollection of the 3 games but i remember i fork bolted a confidant and dryad arbor and it felt amazing.

i sided like -2 daze -2 spell pierce -2 FoW +2 submerge +2 surgical +1 ancient grudge +1 krosan grip.
I think I need a better card for these type of MU because sometimes you just dont have the answers for all the threats. DRS, SFM, Bob, goyf, KOTR, etc...any SB help here would be great. I remember I brought in surgical expecting loams because he did play a mox diamond but there were none in his list, so this was definitely a mistake. shrug.

lost to UWr delver
kept a 1 lander with a ponder. ponder revealed no more land so i shuffled. he wasted me next turn. never drew more lands. similar scenario game 2. lost of wastelands for him, no lands for me :(. i stifled an early fetch of his but he later told me after the match he kept a 4 lander so that stifle ended up being sub optimal. i think i sided like

-2 daze -2 fow +2 REB +1 ancient grudge +1 krosan grip

I think this game was mostly just bad luck, as i feel pretty comfortable with the MU.

For starters I don't really agree with boarding out stifles against miracles you can hit miracle triggers first and foremost, jace bounce, EE, fetches, fetches with miracles on the stack even better and it's a way to get out of counter balance lock "REB counterbalance *top... flip top* stifle flip" or something along those lines maybe you just need that last bolt to get through.

Junk - Your best bet is to just have the tempo plan. It's a pretty bad match up on par with Jund. I mean they have a very similar game plan just switch bloodbraids with KOTR and bolts to swords.

UWR Delver - Take all your forces out regardless otp or otd. In tempo mirrors force always hits the board because you can't afford the card disadvantage. I would also probably not ponder turn 1 for lands unless you have literally nothing better to hold up. I mean it's not like you're going to play the lands you find and waiting a turn gets you one deeper. There's the chance that they have daze/spell pierce, but I doubt they would counter a ponder. Usually in tempo mirrors you want to save counter magic to push through removal/threats/brainstorm so everything but ponder hahaha.

[ShiftyKapree]

Took 11th place today with the deck, and took home a badlands and my lil bro took home a plateau for 15th place with team America. All and all a good day
Here's my list and the match-ups I played against had some unbelievable luck wins today and an unexpected loss today to burn deck is so underrated.
Maindeck: 60
4 delver
4 goose
4 tarmogoyf
4 fow
4 bs
4 ponder
4 daze
4 stifle
2 spell pierce
2 spellsnare
4 lightning bolt
2 forked bolt
4 misty
4 tarn
4 wasteland
3 trop
3 volc
Sideboard: 15
2 pithing needle
1 ancient grudge
1 krosan grip
2 rough/tumble
1 grafdiggers
3 REB
1 Flusterstorm
3 Submerge
1 V-clique

Round 1: Esper blade
Crushed this deck, landed a goyf and goose against him, kept him off DRS and was all good.
2-0
record: 1-0

Round 2: Mono-red Staxx
Game 1 lost the dice roll, plays a turn 1 chalice for 1, wasn't too upset bc I had two goyfs in my hand and fill my gy up with 1 drops and was able to counter blood moon turn 2
Game 2 similar fashion, wasn't looking forward to playing this match-up but beat it was happy
2-0
Record: 2-0

Round 3: Mono-red Staxx (WTF )
Similar fashion as last round went, kicked ass and took names
2-0
Record: 3-0
things are looking up for me this tournament

Round 4:Mono red burn
Game 1 he gets me, really underrated deck
Game 2 I win
Game 3: lands a grim, I had a fow and BS in my hand with no creatures on board and no other draw spells. Debated hard about countering the grim, but I didn't. Couldn't find a bolt to remove him. He gets me and makes top 8
1-2
Record 3-1

Round 5: U/G Infect
I honestly hate this deck, It blows my mind people play this shit. No offense to my opponent but I wouldn't waste the tournament fee to play this deck EVER!
Game 1 he wins beats me bc I don't draw removal
Game 2 I win after a long battle but get there with needle naming inkmoth
Game 3 I win after hitting the nuts
2-1
Record 4-1

Round 6: DNT
Game 1: I was able to lose the dice roll and he sticks a vial down, pretty much is history
Game 2: I get triple wasteland even after I name needle with vial. beats me down with that Brimazz dude and a BS.
My opinion of this deck is that it's 50/50 and I really missed Sulfur Elemental in the sideboard for it, I may cut a REB or V-Clique for it again.
0-2
Record: 4-2

Round 7: Final Round Mono-brown staxx ( I hate playing against this deck)
Game 1 he lands a chalice for 1 on turn 1 luckily I won the dice roll and has a delver doesn't flip for 3 turns but I get there
Game 2: he lands turn 1 chalice, turn two trinsphere and was able to pay my daze, beats me down with two lodestones I call it a game
Game 3: I land a delver doesn't flip for 3 turns, I play a second one turn 2 and the rest was history.
2-1
Final record: 5-2

I miss top 8th by 3 spots, not too upset, wish I made it too top 8 but it happens. Glad to take 11th place and bring home a shitty badlands, and my bro taking 15th place and bringing home a plateau

Props: all mad chill opponents
Good atmosphere of crowd, no real fucking weirdo's there that make the game socially unacceptable
Tournament for running smoothly

Slops:
The judges for deck checking me round 4 against burn and having me to reshuffle my deck.
Also for being a bunch of hard asses for the day.
For it being hotter than hell in the tournament with no AC in the game room.

I'm glad to say after going negative with the deck the last two tournaments I played in, I can finally say I'm back on the map and ready to continue my success with it like I use to have. Keep flipping those delvers, and keeping the goose loose homie's

[KobeBryan]

You don't really need vendilion clique in this deck.

THe counter suite and the stifles makes up for whatever vendilion clique does.

[Contract Killer]

You don't really need vendilion clique in this deck.

THe counter suite and the stifles makes up for whatever vendilion clique does.

Clique has very specific, but powerful uses:
Stealing miracle cards with the trigger on the stack
Stealing Show and Tell / Sneak Attack targets
Stealing Stoneforge Mystic equipment pieces

These are the main ones that affect what only 3 really popular decks? Aside from doing the above mentioned it also adds a threat to the board while disrupting the opponents game plan. Other more niche situations can involve timing it right to steal nasty cards like True Name and Abrupt Decay before they hit the table. I'm also pretty sure everyone on this thread will agree with me that Vendilion Clique is one the most powerful sideboard cards we have and it's a shame if you don't play it. It's the very essence of our deck disrupting our opponent while advancing our board state.

In other news I just finished a 70 man 7 round tournament with an ok finish of 4/3 losses were: Infect round 3, Deathblade round 6, BUG Delver round 7. Report soon to follow...

[Quasim0ff]

You don't really need vendilion clique in this deck.

THe counter suite and the stifles makes up for whatever vendilion clique does.

Vendilion Clique is usually insane in the matchup where goyf's a bit lackluster.

[KobeBryan]

i was going off of this guy's sideboard and matchup issues with DNT

Sideboard: 15
2 pithing needle
1 ancient grudge
1 krosan grip
2 rough/tumble
1 grafdiggers
3 REB
1 Flusterstorm
3 Submerge
1 V-clique


from what he put, the best bet is to take out the clique for his sulfur elemental. He can take out a submerge as well too, but just saying.

Stifles and counter suits is usually quite a bit for sneak attack and miracles for you to win against without clique