[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Lemnear]

Am I wrong in thinking that the currently biggest difference between TES and ANT is that we run B.W., whereas they dont?

Yes, you are wrong here

[sawatarix]

The biggest difference is that Ant uses powerful cards,Tes doesn't :D

[kavaki]

Yes, you are wrong here

Fine then, what currently really is the difference in composition?

[Hopo]

Fine then, what currently really is the difference in composition?

A quick glance at both primers should give you some ideas. It actually should be the first thing to do before you even ask the question.

[Lemnear]

The biggest difference is that Ant uses powerful cards,Tes doesn't :D

You mean like ANT's very first slots to board out, Preordain? ;)

Fine then, what currently really is the difference in composition?

A quick glance at both primers should give you some ideas. It actually should be the first thing to do before you even ask the question.

Well, the primer gives you an idea as the decklist with the Moxen + Wishes + RoF double red mana, anyone?) should too, that's why I kept my response short. Personally, I just reached a point at which I refuse to point out stuff which is repeatingly asked and answered within this thread (for years now) while the questions should be easily answerable by reading the OP and browsing the thread which repeats itself like every 10 pages. I'll gladly assist by answering questions which aren't discussed to death within the thread, aren't integral part of the primer ("Why to play the EPIC Storm over other storm variants") or show a lack of basic understanding ("why play RoF over Cabal Ritual?", "Why play the whole set of Therapies? Duress doesn't need you to guess!", "Why Rainbow lands over more duals/Fetches?", "Why running Chrome Moxen over more lands?", "can I board out Probes because they aren't doing much?", etc.).

Edit: This post is not intended to come off as rude or disrespectful. Blame my personality for the tone. I'm just a bit stressed by work and private issues atm on top of my general annoyance of threads and topics repeating themselves

[kavaki]

A quick glance at both primers should give you some ideas. It actually should be the first thing to do before you even ask the question.

Honey will attract more people, Vinegar will trap more bugs. You are what you project.

You mean like ANT's very first slots to board out, Preordain? ;)





Well, the primer gives you an idea as the decklist with the Moxen + Wishes + RoF double red mana, anyone?) should too, that's why I kept my response short. Personally, I just reached a point at which I refuse to point out stuff which is repeatingly asked and answered within this thread (for years now) while the questions should be easily answerable by reading the OP and browsing the thread which repeats itself like every 10 pages. I'll gladly assist by answering questions which aren't discussed to death within the thread, aren't integral part of the primer ("Why to play the EPIC Storm over other storm variants") or show a lack of basic understanding ("why play RoF over Cabal Ritual?", "Why play the whole set of Therapies? Duress doesn't need you to guess!", "Why Rainbow lands over more duals/Fetches?", "Why running Chrome Moxen over more lands?", "can I board out Probes because they aren't doing much?", etc.).

Edit: This post is not intended to come off as rude or disrespectful. Blame my personality for the tone. I'm just a bit stressed by work and private issues atm on top of my general annoyance of threads and topics repeating themselves

Looking at the primers, neither really goes in depth about the exact differences. Looking elsewhere, it looks like this is a faster deck, but also a little bit more "manabase fragile" as no basics are ran.

[Asthereal]

Looking at the primers, neither really goes in depth about the exact differences. Looking elsewhere, it looks like this is a faster deck, but also a little bit more "manabase fragile" as no basics are ran.

It's pretty simple:

TES want to win as soon as possible, so it runs the cheaper accelleration in a full set of Rite of Flame and several copies of Chrome Mox, next to a higher number of "business spells" with 3-4 Burning Wish. This means the deck can go off sooner, needing less cantrips to sculp a good hand, but it does usually require both red and black mana to go off, next to blue mana for cantrips, so it stretches its mana base a bit more. Hence the rainbow lands and no basics. TES relies on fast Empty the Warrens and Ad Nauseam wins. Past in Flames, natural spell chain and Diminishing Returns are alternative plans.

Pro's: faster, so better matchup against hate that lands turn 2+
Con's: weaker mana base, so vulnerable to mana denial combined with other hate

ANT on the other hand favours inevitability. It uses basics to secure its mana base, and it uses the slower but more powerful Cabal Ritual as accelleration instead of the faster but less powerful Rite of Flame. ANT relies on slow but sure Past in Flames or natural spell chain wins. Ad Nauseam and Empty the Warrens are alternative plans. ANT does not typically play Diminishing Returns-like cards.

Pro's: in general the more stable deck with better mana base and focus on the sure win
Con's: slower, sometimes has trouble finding a business spell

The latest innovations in TES done by its creator Bryant Cook have moved the deck more in the direction of ANT: less rainbow lands, a discard only protection package instead of Silence effects and the addition of two copies of Cabal Ritual, dropping a Chrome Mox and moving one Infernal Tutor to the side. Not everyone here agrees with this innovation though. Some feel that one should just play ANT instead. So I can imagine people having more and more difficulty to determine the difference between the two, but usually the presence/absence of Rite of Flame gives it away.

[kavaki]

The latest innovations in TES done by its creator Bryant Cook have moved the deck more in the direction of ANT: less rainbow lands, a discard only protection package instead of Silence effects and the addition of two copies of Cabal Ritual, dropping a Chrome Mox and moving one Infernal Tutor to the side. Not everyone here agrees with this innovation though. Some feel that one should just play ANT instead. So I can imagine people having more and more difficulty to determine the difference between the two, but usually the presence/absence of Rite of Flame gives it away.

Its this point that I was really trying to ask about, I just suck at phrasing things. Its also weird in that, in my local meta is a player who runs UBR ANT and runs Rite, but not the rainbow manabase. I was more so trying to see where the "modern' TES is in relation to where ANT is, and this post really helped me.

[Lemnear]

Asthereal is the guy in this thread with a buddhas calm, explaining all the stuff i am too annoyed to do anymore. I guess i owe him a beer or two for all the work he does in the thread. Hit me on that

[Bryant Cook]

The latest innovations in TES done by its creator Bryant Cook have moved the deck more in the direction of ANT: less rainbow lands, a discard only protection package instead of Silence effects and the addition of two copies of Cabal Ritual, dropping a Chrome Mox and moving one Infernal Tutor to the side. Not everyone here agrees with this innovation though. Some feel that one should just play ANT instead. So I can imagine people having more and more difficulty to determine the difference between the two, but usually the presence/absence of Rite of Flame gives it away.

I'm looking for the perfect storm deck, ANT isn't it, neither were the former TES lists. I play to win and I want to run the most optimal 75 I can. People don't need to run my lists, but I'm going to play whatever cards give me the best odds of taking home more money.

[Elfkid]

I'm looking for the perfect storm deck, ANT isn't it, neither were the former TES lists. I play to win and I want to run the most optimal 75 I can. People don't need to run my lists, but I'm going to play whatever cards give me the best odds of taking home more money.

Amen

[Pelikanudo]

I'm looking for the perfect storm deck, ANT isn't it, neither were the former TES lists. I play to win and I want to run the most optimal 75 I can. People don't need to run my lists, but I'm going to play whatever cards give me the best odds of taking home more money.

play mine then.

EDIT: I've been sometime ago I also started to evaluate also adding C.Ritual to the list for the unique reason which is to play a total of 6 +3mana effects, for sure the first card that came to my mind was C.Mox. but I was very confused about the other slot. only 1 C.R.? Sure I didnt want to take out I.T., EtW neither, so could be a Discard or B.Wish, I'm not advocated to take out B.W., I recognice in TNT I play 3 and I really dont want to draw more than 1. So it seems to me more logic to just play full threats and reduce the number of discard effects. you'd better do B.Wish to discard if needed than B.Wish to I.T. to A.N.

So what I propose is to -1Duress+1I.T to the list and addig D.Returns and maybe Bribery to side, as an idea.

[sawatarix]

I would run 6 discard instead of 7 because burning wish represents a discard spell - don't forget about that.

So infernal tutor would be a playset again in the main,2 chrome mox and 12 lands that's how i would play the deck.

[Pelikanudo]

I would run 6 discard instead of 7 because burning wish represents a discard spell - don't forget about that.

So infernal tutor would be a playset again in the main,2 chrome mox and 12 lands that's how i would play the deck.

I hope we reach the perfect storm list...
let me propose a side for this:

sideboard
2 T.Seize/Duress
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Tropical Island
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Massacre
1 Bribery
1 Diminishing Returns
2 Pyroblast
1 PiF

I dont expect to face Leyline, anyway its always winnable with EtW, by here S&T doesnt run Leyline, so xantids are not as ok, reanimator is ok adding even more discard, just potentiating that strategy, I just would add the 2 T.Seize instead ponder and EtW.I alsoprefer T.Seize vs miracles or control in general, not vs tempo. so maybe a Split would be ideal.

[Lemnear]

I would run 6 discard instead of 7 because burning wish represents a discard spell - don't forget about that.

So infernal tutor would be a playset again in the main,2 chrome mox and 12 lands that's how i would play the deck.

I support 6 discard slots because of the Wishes, so there are basically already 10 discard spells in the maindeck. However, I strongly dislike reducing initial mana sources because this has negative consequences for starting grips (including mulligans) and against manadenial like Wasteland/Daze

[Bryant Cook]

I don't understand everyone's desire to shove the Infernal into the main deck, we're essentially preboarded at this point without running a shitty card like Diminishing Returns.

[Togores]

I have tested a quite and love the infernal in the side. Now our fast naseams are lees usual, but in a mid game there is hight change of bw nausseam.

[Lemnear]

I have tested a quite and love the infernal in the side. Now our fast naseams are lees usual, but in a mid game there is hight change of bw nausseam.

It all depends if your metagame fits for "midgame Ad Nauseams off Wish" or if your expected field favors the T1/2 burst. There is a bit too much talk in absolutes for my taste for the simple question of preboarding IT or not.

For me the SB is a much more dynamic topic and I am a bit irritated that no one showed interrest in the fact that Pyroblasts left the 75 recently, for example.

[Niggurath]

[...]
For me the SB is a much more dynamic topic and I am a bit irritated that no one showed interrest in the fact that Pyroblasts left the 75 recently, for example.

IMO, although I like Pyroblast a lot, I feel it underperformed in TES against Miracle. I couldn't counter a landing counterbalance against Miracles because mine was countered. Next turn, I draw Pyroblast, try to destroy CB but it shows a land, and then my opponent counters Pyro again.

I think it's better to run Decay against Miracles, because you'll be sure it won't be countered. A 3-off seems a lot, but I haven't tested it yet. Not sure if Pyroblast was cool against Delver decks, maybe just playing discard spells it's just fine.

[Togores]

I play 3 decay 3 xantid.
I also dont like pyro, I just like it to destroy meddling or delver. But u can also side in massacre or grapeshot.
And usualy vs show and tell they also have a counterbackup for the show or u can show in a xantid and also win next turn.

I play this 3-3 usualy, but in a non show and tell, reanimator usw envoirment I would cut a xantid for a random pyro. when I sided usualy I prefered to destroy balance with uncounterable form or just side in 1 pyro because cutting cards like ponder is akward.