[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[conboy31]

Not to piss on the creativity, but that deck looks like it auto loses to: TES, Ant, Reanimator, Belcher, High tide, Sneak and show, Burn and Elves. Essentially any deck in the format that can goldfish you at or before turn 4.

[pfiremc13]

Wood Elves nets you a permanent on top of being a permanent, whereas Farseek / Ranger's Path / etc are spells, and thus don't synergize with Warp World.

Basically, here's the thought process.

Starting point: how can Aggressive Mining be actually used? Saccing a land to draw 2 cards is potent and can be abused somehow, I'm sure.

> Loam and Crucible don't work with it, because you can't play lands. Thus, you need to be able to put lands into play directly from your deck.
> This means Explorer needs to be functional lategame, which means that you need a higher-than-avg number of basics. 2 color or very slight splash of 3.
> The next best ramp cards are Sakura-Tribe, Wood Elves, Solemn, Nature's Lore, Three Visits, and possibly Primal Growth.
> If we're looking at running 8-12 cards that dump lands into play, what are we ramping into? Yeah, we'll have plenty of card draw, but what are we doing other than drawing cards?
> The most powerful options in green and end are Warp World, Genesis Wave, and Tooth and Nail, in no particular order.
> Decided to work with Warp World first arbitrarily.
> This necessitates Wood Elves and Solemn Sim over the other options. Sakura-Tribe sacrifices itself to put a land into play, and the other options are spells and thus don't count for Warp World.
> Warp World is primarily broken via recursion -- you Warp, Warp hits an Eternal Witness which returns the Warp, and then you do it again and again until they're dead, basically.
> Ob-Nixilis is the premier wincon for Warp World -- between the lands themselves and the various Wood Elves / Solemn triggers, 1-2 Ob-powered Warps should be enough to kill most opponents. Hitting 2 Ob-Nixilises off of the same Warp should be lethal, since each Ob will trigger before they blow up from legend rule.
> Running so many basics means that we're not going to be able to run fetches, which means that Cabal Therapy should be replaced with Crack the Earth for this deck.
> This deck should be kept basically straight RG, with a splash of black to be able to cast any errant Ob Nixilises / sideboard Slaughter Games.

Then I just kind of derped up the shell around that core idea. Siege-Gang is there because he's the single most reasonable broken Warp World thing -- he counts as 4 permanents, which is huge for a Warp. He's also castable and reasonable on his own two feet, as opposed to something like Avenger of Zendikar, say.

Musing since thinking about it this morning:

-) Lotus Cobra might have a place here, along with a nominal fetchland count (say, 3-4...scapeshift style).
-) Primeval Titan is still ridiculous here, as he's worth 3 permanents.
-) Counterspells are going to be an issue. Going deep on Thragtusks is probably correct, since blue decks basically have to Force that guy whenever possible. Deck overall should probably be build as roughly Wolf Run Ramp from standard a few years ago, with a Warp World endgame combo.
-) There exist decks against which Warp World is going to be highly dangerous -- Sneak and Show comes immediately to mind.
-) Chandra, the Firebrand might have a place here. Forking a Warp World seems stronk.
-) Urabrask?

-) Unsure if the Warp World endgame is actually any better than the Tooth and Nail endgame. Gut is suggesting that T&N is the correct endpoint for this shell, but I'm not sure. The question of what to do when you have Aggressive Mining active and a million ramp mana is actually rather challenging.

Looks like the warp world plan is taking up roughly 60 deck slots (12 to be exact: the obs, the siege gangs and the ewits). In addition to the cards in the deck, that deck wants more disruption as conboy noted (crack the earth is good but nowhere near enough on its own) and thragtusks and prime times as you noted. Time to go tooth and nail imo. The only difference between that and warp world is that warp world costs one more mana but a million more deck slots.

It could start like this:

Mining with Tooth and Nail (Who needs pickaxes?)

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Nature's Lore
3 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Primal Growth

4 Cabal therapy
4 Thragtusk
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Thoughtseize

2 Primeval Titan
3 Tooth and Nail
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Aggressive Mining

5 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

The idea here is to ramp/disrupt until you get to t&n. Against a deck with limited removal/one that is tapped out you can fetch kiki + conscripts. Against a deck like miracles you can give them the middle finger and fetch double prime time. The list is rough obviously; there are a bunch of 1-, 2-, and 3-of's that should probably just be more 4-of's, and the manabase is somewhat thrown together. But it's a start.

[Bobmans]

Has anyone had experience with Spike Weaver in POD lists? It helps against Jitte and Batterskull and basicly against any creature strategy.

----

I really like that BUG Walker list by David McDarby, just before he went top16 there was another list with Punishing Fire and Nicol Bolas planeswalker. It may be a bit sup par, but i was thinking about this list:

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Karn Liberated
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Dack Fayden
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Punishing Fire

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta

[Arianrhod]

Well. Garruk, Apex Predator is almost certainly better than Karn for Nic Fit. Not sure where that actually leaves him, though. 7 mana is a lot, even for us -- but every single one of those abilities is tailor-made for us. Undecided in my thoughts -- will sleep on it.

[maharis]

Well. Garruk, Apex Predator is almost certainly better than Karn for Nic Fit. Not sure where that actually leaves him, though. 7 mana is a lot, even for us -- but every single one of those abilities is tailor-made for us. Undecided in my thoughts -- will sleep on it.

It seems too dead against combo to ever work in legacy. Only way I could see it work is with glittering wish. Brew-worthy but generally disappointing

[Bobmans]

It seems too dead against combo to ever work in legacy. Only way I could see it work is with glittering wish. Brew-worthy but generally disappointing

wtf: -8: Target opponent gets an emblem with "Whenever a creature attacks you, it gets +5/+5 and gains trample until end of turn."

It's CMC is just a bit to high to make it work. First thing i think of is Miracles matchup where it might shine. But why o why such brainfart on it's Ultimate and CMC.

Anyway, how about this one. GGG is high taxing:
(It's a reprint, never mind)

[Nihilis]

wtf: -8: Target opponent gets an emblem with "Whenever a creature attacks you, it gets +5/+5 and gains trample until end of turn."

It's CMC is just a bit to high to make it work. First thing i think of is Miracles matchup where it might shine. But why o why such brainfart on it's Ultimate and CMC.

Anyway, how about this one. GGG is high taxing:
(It's a reprint, never mind)

As the opponent is the controller of the emblem, the "you" part refers to your opponent i.e. when you attack an opponent having such an emblem your creatures get +5/+5 and trample. Not sure if that confused you or not.

The manacost might be a little too high, but it could find a place in the BUG Walkers (you can always brainstorm it away when you draw it too early) or ScapeWish versions as a one of. Especially in the latter, where you have extra ramp and the target is 7 lands due to Scapeshift anyway. Getting this into play is almost an autowin, which given the CMC it really should be (maybe less so due to Council's Judgment). Then again, it might just be a massive brick.

[YamiJoey]

In regular Magic it is just "You get an Emblem with attacking Creatures you control have +5/+5 and Trample", in multiplayer it's strictly worse. Which makes sense as it's likely you're just going to Doubling Season -> This and become and unstoppable force of the truest powers.

[Bobmans]

I've put the JUND fit list and other weird brews aside and decided to build a BUG fit list. It is pretty much the list from the Paris T16.
Questions i have been asking myself. Is a Creeping tar pit any good. Would a Phyrexian tower and Volrath's Stronghold be any good. Would i like to see a Dryad Arbor in there.
Maybe squeeze in a Jace, TMS or Liliana of the Veil or 2 in there. I would like to replace the single Thoughtseize, but for what. Or add a second instead.

Heres the list:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Reclemation Sage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw
1 AEtherling

1 Abrupt Decay
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Birthing Pod
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Pernicious Deed

3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Creeping Tar Pit

SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 1 Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Riptide Pilferer

[KantianSublime]

Hello.

Does the Jund-colored, non-Pod, Punishing Fire version of this deck usually run Kokusho or Recurring Nightmare? Also, I assume Phyrexian Arena is only played in Junk versions since they use Academy Rector?

Thanks.

[kavaki]

Im in an argument with some people. Are BUG Pod lists considered Nic Fit Variants (The version in question runs Explorer and Therapy)

[Bobmans]

Does the Jund-colored, non-Pod, Punishing Fire version of this deck usually run Kokusho or Recurring Nightmare? Also, I assume Phyrexian Arena is only played in Junk versions since they use Academy Rector?

Kokusho, the Evening Star is black and therefor not tutorable with GSZ. The thing is with PFire Jund is that you want to bring in a fatty after you have a stable board position to finish the job or you need one as a panic button. PFire jund fit relies more on its controllish nature with all the spells and less on creature tricks. Running more creature tricks will most likely unbalance it's controlling "edge" and will add some kind of clunkyness. Most lists do not run recurring nightmare, mostly due to the same reason. I would rather run Decay, Deed, PFire, Pulse, Lili, (Garruk, PH), etc, then tricks. Most lists run Volrath's Stronghold with Phyrexian Tower and Primeval Titan, Also 1 / 2 Eternal Witness. Should be enough considering most lists run pretty tight on the creature count.

Playing Phyrexian Arena is a posibility with or without rector lists, but i would rather run enchantment's with rector lists that have a higher impact on the board state.

Im in an argument with some people. Are BUG Pod lists considered Nic Fit Variants (The version in question runs Explorer and Therapy)

Well why wouldn't any POD list with Explorers and Therapy not be Nic Fit. The decks run the most efficient way to Ramp into creature abuse with either GSZ or POD. Just like the ancient Survival of the Fittest.dec

Nic Fit meaning (cus games tend to take for ages):
to be really bad-mood cause you can't get a cigarette to fulfill your need for nicotine, a nic-fit is a very serious situation when one doesn't want to interfere with the nic-fitter during the pursuit of a cigarette... or else someone might get hurt.
"If I don't get a cigarette soon I'm gonna start nic-fittin'."

[conboy31]

The scapeshift version crawled back to the prizes. 14th out of 300 in Japan on Saturday. http://www.happymtg.com/coverage/21426/

[.Ix]

I really want to play Junk or BUG nic fit, but I can't find Pernicious Deed. Is it really that good in the deck, or can I get away with not running it? How often do you guys sweep for profit in this deck? Seems like it hits a lot of your own permanents.

[Bobmans]

I really want to play Junk or BUG nic fit, but I can't find Pernicious Deed. Is it really that good in the deck, or can I get away with not running it? How often do you guys sweep for profit in this deck? Seems like it hits a lot of your own permanents.

If there is a deck to play Deeds, this is it. Your permanents are most of the times at higher CMC or you shouldn't be concerned to lose your own permanents since you can recur them. Having a board sweep mostly means you out of risk (for a period). Playing Nic Fit without deeds seems wrong.

[MeisterMitschl]

Since Qweerios decided to cut Deed from Junk Pod entirely I was wondering if this specific list still is a form of NicFit at all. Sure, the thing all variants have in common and how the archetype is defined is the interaction of Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy. For me, however, Pernicious Deed as well has always been a cornerstone of NicFit. Keeping in mind the lower curve of Junk Pod and the absence of Deed I'm about to question the relevance of the Explorer/Therapy acceleration. I feel like we are moving away from NicFit and are rather becoming a somewhat controllish version of Maverick, if you like (or TheRock). With all our situational cards (Pod-targets) I wonder if Sylvan Library might be a good addition to the deck. Also, its synergy with Courser of Kruphix should not be overlooked. With both on the table we might be able to establish a one-sided Howling Mine often enough and both seem good on their own. With all our lifegain (Shaman, Ooze, Finks, Tusk, maybe Courser) Sylvan Library alone should be able to keep our gas going in grindy matches. After brainstorming I came up with a list like this (pretty much Qweerios' list with the aforementioned changes) and would love to hear your opinion:

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Wall of Blossoms
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bone Shredder / Orzhov Pontiff
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor

[jobdevries]

Since Qweerios decided to cut Deed from Junk Pod entirely I was wondering if this specific list still is a form of NicFit at all. Sure, the thing all variants have in common and how the archetype is defined is the interaction of Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy. For me, however, Pernicious Deed as well has always been a cornerstone of NicFit. Keeping in mind the lower curve of Junk Pod and the absence of Deed I'm about to question the relevance of the Explorer/Therapy acceleration. I feel like we are moving away from NicFit and are rather becoming a somewhat controllish version of Maverick, if you like (or TheRock). With all our situational cards (Pod-targets) I wonder if Sylvan Library might be a good addition to the deck. Also, its synergy with Courser of Kruphix should not be overlooked. With both on the table we might be able to establish a one-sided Howling Mine often enough and both seem good on their own. With all our lifegain (Shaman, Ooze, Finks, Tusk, maybe Courser) Sylvan Library alone should be able to keep our gas going in grindy matches. After brainstorming I came up with a list like this (pretty much Qweerios' list with the aforementioned changes) and would love to hear your opinion:

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Wall of Blossoms
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bone Shredder / Orzhov Pontiff
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Restoration Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Birthing Pod
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor

To be honest, it kind of hurts to see lists like this popping up. This is looking less and less like a Nic Fit list; you basically removed the 3 defining cards that made Nic Fit. The original deck was made to abuse the lack of basic lands in the meta, and play high-cmc creatures that have high value. Why would you even play basics now? This is 'just' a regular POD list.

(No offense intended)

[MeisterMitschl]

Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your honesty.

First, let me get this clear: I would never suggest cutting Explorers and Therapies in "traditional" NicFit.

At the same time, I know that the list above does not look like NicFit any more. In fact, this was exactly the point I intended to make. On the last pages of this thread, the junky Pod lists have evolved. Let's take Qweerios' list, for example. He has cut Pernicious Deed and upped the number of spot removal (Abrupt Decay) instead. There is no six-drop any more, but a SFM-package with equipments. Lately, even the number of Explorers is part of a debate and gets shaved in order to play up to four Deathrites. And I agree with these changes – for a Pod list.

My question is: does a Pod list that has evolved like this (lower curve, no six-drops, no deeds) still profit enough from the traditional NicFit ramp engine? Or are these Explorers and Therapies just relics of the past (again: regarding Pod lists, only)? My question is if these slots can be better used, regardless if you are still able to call the deck "NicFit" afterwards, or not. No offense intended, either, this is a real question I am asking myself and not a rhetorical one.

[Bobmans]

Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your honesty.

First, let me get this clear: I would never suggest cutting Explorers and Therapies in "traditional" NicFit.

At the same time, I know that the list above does not look like NicFit any more. In fact, this was exactly the point I intended to make. On the last pages of this thread, the junky Pod lists have evolved. Let's take Qweerios' list, for example. He has cut Pernicious Deed and upped the number of spot removal (Abrupt Decay) instead. There is no six-drop any more, but a SFM-package with equipments. Lately, even the number of Explorers is part of a debate and gets shaved in order to play up to four Deathrites. And I agree with these changes – for a Pod list.

My question is: does a Pod list that has evolved like this (lower curve, no six-drops, no deeds) still profit enough from the traditional NicFit ramp engine? Or are these Explorers and Therapies just relics of the past (again: regarding Pod lists, only)? My question is if these slots can be better used, regardless if you are still able to call the deck "NicFit" afterwards, or not. No offense intended, either, this is a real question I am asking myself and not a rhetorical one.

Starting to look like Maverick/the Rock with a POD package.

Last weekend i saw a glimpse of someone playing GBW Nic Fit with Deeds and Sun Titan... That was just awesome. Not sure what the exact list was, but it makes me just wanna play that again.

Anyway, if Sun Titans with Deeds and Veteran Explorers with Cabal Therapies are not effecient or streamlined enough, then there is no hope for Nic Fit...


Btw, i was brewing towards a JUND Pod list and this is what i got so far:

Mainboard 61 cards.


3 Birthing Pod
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Green Sun's Zenith

2 Punishing Fire I just love this card, but it might be replaced with Lightning Bolt or Bonfire of the Damned.
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman

3 Sparkmage Apprentice Not the most powerful 2 drop, but it stop lots of critters
1 Vexing Shusher I played this in a PFire NicFit list. Blue decks have so much trouble with this card.
1 Scavenging Ooze

1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Goblin Sharpshooter Shoot down a horde of Goblins or Elves.

1 Murderous Redcap
1 Flametongue Kavu I actually think this one is overkill with all the damage and removal. Might replace him with Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter I have not played this one yet, but i think this will be a time bomb for any deck.

1 Thragtusk
1 Shriekmaw May also not be needed. Might replace him with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Thragtusk with Zealous Conscripts.

1 Sire of Insanity

3 Grove of the Burnwillows Just here for PFire.

1 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Phyrexian Tower Might be replaced.
1 Volrath's Stronghold

[jobdevries]

Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your honesty.

First, let me get this clear: I would never suggest cutting Explorers and Therapies in "traditional" NicFit.

At the same time, I know that the list above does not look like NicFit any more. In fact, this was exactly the point I intended to make. On the last pages of this thread, the junky Pod lists have evolved. Let's take Qweerios' list, for example. He has cut Pernicious Deed and upped the number of spot removal (Abrupt Decay) instead. There is no six-drop any more, but a SFM-package with equipments. Lately, even the number of Explorers is part of a debate and gets shaved in order to play up to four Deathrites. And I agree with these changes – for a Pod list.

My question is: does a Pod list that has evolved like this (lower curve, no six-drops, no deeds) still profit enough from the traditional NicFit ramp engine? Or are these Explorers and Therapies just relics of the past (again: regarding Pod lists, only)? My question is if these slots can be better used, regardless if you are still able to call the deck "NicFit" afterwards, or not. No offense intended, either, this is a real question I am asking myself and not a rhetorical one.

@ Meister. I guess you are right in that case. If you remove the deeds and high-cmc spells, you don't benefit as much from the veterans. On the other hand, you are missing the advantage of the superb combination of veteran and therapy, and I don't think they can be replaced with for example thoughtseize. Also, I couldn't miss Deed in any list, (which again is worse in your list, considering the lower cmc). Deed beats so many decks in my opinion, it is too good to cut.

Edit: How do 4 GSZ and 3 B Pod play? Is it not 'too much'?

@ Bobmans. The Nic Fit-player with the Sun Titan and the Deeds, was that at the Legacy tourney in Rotterdam (Magic United) by any chance? If so, that was me ;).