Miracle Control

[MrShine]

Made Top 8 of our local Legacy Classic out here in Vancouver. Went 5-1, beating Elves, Storm, losing to Manaless Dredge (!), and then beating RW Painter, UWR Delver, and the Mirror. Lost to Merfolk in the Quarters :(


Check out my report here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...705#post823705


Really happy with the deck; I brought Philipp's list with -1 Ponder +1 Tundra.

The deck is ridiculously powerful.

[Koplinchen]

CG MrShine!

Nice report. Now after the tournament don't you think you should give the 4 Ponder decklist a try? Trust me it works.

I do not really like your sideboarding against Miracles. There are more aproaches but you really want to keep in Forces (mabye you can siede 1 out) and you do NOT want to keep in Termini and Swords to Plowshares.
As you know if he resolves Counterbalance and Top and you have neither - it is the game - this can happen T2...

Good luck!

Tomáš

[Adryan]

Because some guys asked me about my current list, i think i post it here, because it's different than the other lists running around:



Since i'm playing this list, i cashed in every tournament i played with it (about 8 Dailies). The 3 Volcanics (i don't think Basic Mountain is good) make for consistent red mana (I've tested this for quite a while before; ~ 100 matches) and i'm very happy with the consistency of having red mana when needed).

Sneakshow and Shardless BUG are tough MU's, so i really like Keranos in the MD and a Humility (which is a 5th 0 mana counter or another early counter for S&T) in the SB. Blood Moon is also kind of nice, and i really wonder why not more people play it. It's a 2R "win the game" against all tempodecks and a lot of other decks. Of course there are some answers to it, like Abrupt Decay or Sulfuric Vortex, but you're not really in a hurry to cast it and can wait for the right moment.

[Cipher]

Why would you post pictures of that old client like that? A painful reminder at a time when we all just have to move on...


On another note, does anyone care to theorize why Miracles completely dominates the MODO metagame:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online

But is lucky to get a Top 16 at any given SCG Open?

[Kanadell~]

First of all, gratz MrShine on your success!

Einherjer, is your post for SCG already uploaded? I can't wait to read it, since I found your other posts infinitely helpful!

[Julian23]

On another note, does anyone care to theorize why Miracles completely dominates the MODO metagame:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online

But is lucky to get a Top 16 at any given SCG Open?

Because it very likely is the overal strongest deck to play.

As for underperforming at SCG...something something Europe something something USA.

[Dzra]

On another note, does anyone care to theorize why Miracles completely dominates the MODO metagame:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online

But is lucky to get a Top 16 at any given SCG Open?

I'd guess it has to do with the clock system online. In real life tournaments, good players can still easily acquire draws from slow opponents. That's pretty much impossible online, and we all know that if Miracles goes to time, it was most likely winning.

And Adryan, I've actually been thinking about triple Volcanic myself lately. Do you find your Blood Moon or anything else (tempo decks, opposing Moon decks, etc) more awkward with only 5 basics?

[Julian23]

The chess clock system has little to no impact on the meta. From my experience, it is just as much an issue for Miracles as it sometimes also helps them. With the recent addition of +5 minutes it got a little easier, I guess. But before that, timing out Miracles was a real thing on MODO unless the pilot was pretty much aware of it straight from the beginning.

[Adryan]

The chess clock system has little to no impact on the meta. From my experience, it is just as much an issue for Miracles as it sometimes also helps them. With the recent addition of +5 minutes it got a little easier, I guess. But before that, timing out Miracles was a real thing on MODO unless the pilot was pretty much aware of it straight from the beginning.

People adapt slowly, i don't think it's the best deck.

Once Miracles has 20 % of the meta i will start playing BUGstill again. Shardless BUG is already tough, but this MU is really hard. Of course they are both very skill intensive blue decks with lots of decisions, but if both players are of equal skill Miracles has a really hard time.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I see Snapcaster in almost every list on here nowadays. The card is obviously very good, but when I tested it, it felt a little clunky. What are people's thoughts on BBD's maindeck with the 2 Stoneforges and 1 Bskull? I like that approach because it is a proactive play to make early in the game. The biggest problem with this deck is having too many clunky 3+ mana plays.

[Adryan]

I see Snapcaster in almost every list on here nowadays. The card is obviously very good, but when I tested it, it felt a little clunky. What are people's thoughts on BBD's maindeck with the 2 Stoneforges and 1 Bskull? I like that approach because it is a proactive play to make early in the game. The biggest problem with this deck is having too many clunky 3+ mana plays.

I don't think SFM is worth it or needed in the Maindeck/Sideboard. I played him a while for fun in my SB and because someone insisted it's a good card i should play, but

a) it takes too many slots, you can play better or more versatile cards.
b) i can't think of any negative MU or tough MU, where this card shines, except 12-post.

It's obviously very good against nonblack tempodecks, but both UWR Delver and RUG Delver are favored MU's and I'd rather play Blood Moon, which is also very good against them and many other decks (especially the tough MU's) and only takes 1 slot.

[KZhang]

Quick question.

How many of you are running 4 Counterbalances main deck? I'm still trying to determine if i prefer the 3rd Ponder, the 4th Counterbalance, or a basic mountain (or maybe the 3rd Volcanic Island)

Also, seeing that miracles are getting popular (i primarily play on mtgo), how does running 3 x Geist in St Trafts in the board sound? Any other matchups that we could benefit from him? Possibly 12 post as well? Would he be too slow? or would the stoneforge package just be superior?

Would appreciate your thoughts!

-Kenneth

[rickster]

Why would you post pictures of that old client like that? A painful reminder at a time when we all just have to move on...


On another note, does anyone care to theorize why Miracles completely dominates the MODO metagame:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online

But is lucky to get a Top 16 at any given SCG Open?

I'm pretty sure it's over represented since Joe Lossett streams the archetype. Him winning with it makes other people think they can do the same.

I'm sure if Michael Jacob started streaming elves, it'd be top a 1-3 most popular deck. He's the reason modern BG rock is as popular as it is. That deck has a horrendous pod and affinity match up compared to other flavors of BG, yet he wins with it so other people follow suit.

[zeus-online]

Because mtgo keeps track of various triggers, making the deck a lot less complicated?
Also, it shuffles for you, saving time.

or, because it is the most fun deck? :)

[YamiJoey]

I don't believe we were on camera all weekend at SCG. Does anyone have any idea how many UW Control decks were even there?

[Adryan]

Quick question.

How many of you are running 4 Counterbalances main deck? I'm still trying to determine if i prefer the 3rd Ponder, the 4th Counterbalance, or a basic mountain (or maybe the 3rd Volcanic Island)

Also, seeing that miracles are getting popular (i primarily play on mtgo), how does running 3 x Geist in St Trafts in the board sound? Any other matchups that we could benefit from him? Possibly 12 post as well? Would he be too slow? or would the stoneforge package just be superior?

Would appreciate your thoughts!

-Kenneth

I run 3, because i don't like 4. Card is only really good with Brainstorm and SDT. But running 4 is not incorrect. It's just personal preference.



Stoneforge Package is strictly superior, because it costs less mana, is non blue, provides CA and Batterskull is a more resilent threat.

Geist is simply not good because it's a 3 CMC dude without flash that can be REB and be blocked by Snapcaster Mage/ Clique/ Batterskull etc. Especially in the early turns of the game, you don't really want to tapout that much or invest so much mana. SFM costing 2 mana is actually a huge difference.

If you want an edge in the mirror, i recommend SFM package, more Vendilion Cliques, 4 Counterbalance, more Snapcaster Mages etc. but not something like Geist.

[Cipher]

I'm pretty sure it's over represented since Joe Lossett streams the archetype. Him winning with it makes other people think they can do the same.

I'm sure if Michael Jacob started streaming elves, it'd be top a 1-3 most popular deck. He's the reason modern BG rock is as popular as it is. That deck has a horrendous pod and affinity match up compared to other flavors of BG, yet he wins with it so other people follow suit.

Yeah, I still think that Joe basically doubled the size of Legacy dailies with his stream. I remember watching them barely fire when he started. I suppose it would make sense that everyone is playing copycat. Interesting about Jacob and BG, as well.

[zeus-online]

How do people feel about land tax versions of the miracle deck?

[Koplinchen]

You want to play land every turn... So you can trigger LT once? And then there is an Abrupt Decay. Not worth it.

[Adryan]

How do people feel about land tax versions of the miracle deck?

You can play something like that, but with Scroll Rack. It's a completely different deck and is favored against Miracle, but against the rest of the format it's worse than Miracles.
A lot of tempo decks can function on a low number of lands, so it's hard to trigger Land Tax against them even with Mox Diamond.