[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Qweerios]

I don't mean to shit all over your creativity but Crack the Earth and Pongify are both awful. If anything, Perilous Research or Pyroclasm is where you want to be.

Also, for a RUG shift list using Perilous Research you might want to look into Coiling Oracle.

[Ralf]

I don't mean to shit all over your creativity but Crack the Earth and Pongify are both awful. If anything, Perilous Research or Pyroclasm is where you want to be.

Also, for a RUG shift list using Perilous Research you might want to look into Coiling Oracle.

Thanks for the tips.

Here is where I am right now.

1 [UNH] Mountain
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [UNH] Island
2 [GTC] Stomping Ground
2 [R] Tropical Island
2 [ZEN] Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 [UNH] Forest
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [R] Taiga

1 [CMD] Eternal Witness
1 [M13] Thragtusk
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
4 [CMD] Veteran Explorer

3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

3 [] Negate
4 [] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [GTC] Rapid Hybridization

2 [MOR] Scapeshift
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [AVR] Devastation Tide

SB: 2 [M11] Pyroclasm
SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 [AVR] Bonfire of the Damned

I'm taking any ideas.

[Elfkid]

@ honeyT: I'm interested why you choose the titan+kessig package over the stronghold value, can you explain me why?

And what about the bane of progress for a sideboard card?

[Arianrhod]

I like most of the list, but I think you're getting a little too cute with Scuttling Doom Engine. I can't really think of a scenario when it's better than just having Kokusho.

Scuttles:

-) 6/6 is bigger than average Goyf (5/6)
-) Can't be chumpblocked by dorks (DRS, Stoneforge, unflipped Delvers)
-) Nugs for 6 on the way out
-) Deals damage on its way out, which can be redirected to essentially vindicate any planeswalker
-) Colorless -- doesn't lose to Sword of X/Y, easy to cast
-) You get to go "TOOT" every time you play it

-) Doesn't fly
-) Swords to Plowshares makes it sad
-) I can't think of any other drawbacks

Kokopuffs:

-) Has flying
-) Drains for 5 -- 10 point lifeswing
-) Doesn't target, so can't be stopped by Leyline of Sanctity (fringe)

-) Is double black, which is historically rough for tricolor Nic Fits -- especially if you want to Nightmare or Therapy it on the same turn an
-) Can't hit planeswalkers with his trigger
-) Can be bounced by Karakas (this can be an advantage in some circumstances, but in my experience is usually a downside)
-) Swords to Plowshares makes it sad

Summary: While the lifeswing on Kokusho is 'better', being able to essentially destroy target planeswalker I think gives the edge to Scuttles. There's a few very minor advantages and drawbacks to each, but that's the big one, along with the fact that Scuttles can't be Karakas'd.

[HoneyT]

@ honeyT: I'm interested why you choose the titan+kessig package over the stronghold value, can you explain me why?

And what about the bane of progress for a sideboard card?

I explained in my previous post why I play Wolf Run over Stronghold. And Bane of Progress is completely unnecessary unless your meta is filled with MUD and Enchantress. If so, go nuts I guess.

Scuttles:

-) 6/6 is bigger than average Goyf (5/6)
-) Can't be chumpblocked by dorks (DRS, Stoneforge, unflipped Delvers)
-) Nugs for 6 on the way out
-) Deals damage on its way out, which can be redirected to essentially vindicate any planeswalker
-) Colorless -- doesn't lose to Sword of X/Y, easy to cast
-) You get to go "TOOT" every time you play it

-) Doesn't fly
-) Swords to Plowshares makes it sad
-) I can't think of any other drawbacks

Kokopuffs:

-) Has flying
-) Drains for 5 -- 10 point lifeswing
-) Doesn't target, so can't be stopped by Leyline of Sanctity (fringe)

-) Is double black, which is historically rough for tricolor Nic Fits -- especially if you want to Nightmare or Therapy it on the same turn an
-) Can't hit planeswalkers with his trigger
-) Can be bounced by Karakas (this can be an advantage in some circumstances, but in my experience is usually a downside)
-) Swords to Plowshares makes it sad

Summary: While the lifeswing on Kokusho is 'better', being able to essentially destroy target planeswalker I think gives the edge to Scuttles. There's a few very minor advantages and drawbacks to each, but that's the big one, along with the fact that Scuttles can't be Karakas'd.

Fair points. I still think I like Kokusho better as the evasive finisher that goes nuts with Nightmare, but your reasonings are thought out and legit. At that stage in the late game I don't think mana is typically an issue and I don't think nugging planeswalkers is particularly relevant when you're playing Vindicate and Council's Judgement. Flying is still the better form of evasion (not being blocked by TNN is a thing) and Kokopuffs is obviously better with Nightmare. That being said, I won't fault you for either choice. The Karakas and "TOOT" points being the most relevant arguments as far as I'm concerned as TOOTING is a big game.

[Ralf]

Here's where I'm at on Rector:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Starved Rusalka
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Eternal Witness
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
3 Academy Rector
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Scuttling Doom Engine
1 Sun Titan

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Erebos, God of the Dead

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Council's Judgment
1 Vindicate

1 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland

sb: 1 Garruk, Apex Predator
sb: 1 Reclamation Sage
sb: 2 Thoughtseize
sb: 1 Cranial Extraction
sb: 2 Aven Mindcensor
sb: 1 Toxic Deluge
sb: 1 Abrupt Decay
sb: 1 Swords to Plowshares
sb: 1 Nether Void
sb: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
sb: 1 Rule of Law
sb: 1 Moat

I could also see running a "Fauna Shaman"

[heat_wave]

Hi folks,

I'm going to attend a local legacy tourney, piloting Punishing Nic Fit, and I need a piece of advice from more experienced players.
The meta is quite diverse, I can meet Goblins, BUG, Jund Loam, combo and many other decks. I'm not afraid of facing combo: I've got enough discard, REBs out of sideboard and other tools. It's Junk matchup that gives me chills. I can shoot most of their creatures down, but I've got the most losses from Marit Lage. KotR might come after I've used most of my removal or the Punishing Fires are just not enough to kill it. Then it assembles the combo which I just can't disrupt, and even if I have 21+ life, the threat is just inevitable.
I've found both Emrakul and Marit Lage hard to deal with, but Emrakul comes from combo decks mostly, and Junk has enough meat on board to make my Lilianas useless, or cracks a fetchland for a Dryad Arbor.
Ensnaring Bridge might help games 2 and 3, it's ok against Show and Tell variants based on my experience, but are there any other answers in Jund colours?


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[Arianrhod]

Hi folks,

I'm going to attend a local legacy tourney, piloting Punishing Nic Fit, and I need a piece of advice from more experienced players.
The meta is quite diverse, I can meet Goblins, BUG, Jund Loam, combo and many other decks. I'm not afraid of facing combo: I've got enough discard, REBs out of sideboard and other tools. It's Junk matchup that gives me chills. I can shoot most of their creatures down, but I've got the most losses from Marit Lage. KotR might come after I've used most of my removal or the Punishing Fires are just not enough to kill it. Then it assembles the combo which I just can't disrupt, and even if I have 21+ life, the threat is just inevitable.
I've found both Emrakul and Marit Lage hard to deal with, but Emrakul comes from combo decks mostly, and Junk has enough meat on board to make my Lilianas useless, or cracks a fetchland for a Dryad Arbor.
Ensnaring Bridge might help games 2 and 3, it's ok against Show and Tell variants based on my experience, but are there any other answers in Jund colours?


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About all you can really do is run some kind of bounce or exile removal, neither of which really existed in jund. You -can- still run Karakas, it's just awkward in jund colors.

Uh...you could try some sort of exile target land removal, like Sowing Salt -- it would just be rough for them to actually extend into it, and SS is a sorcery (as is most land destruction), so it'll be hard for you to resolve it even if they offer the target for you. Diabolic Edict will likely help -- you'll just have to try to keep the board as clear as you possibly can.

[heat_wave]

About all you can really do is run some kind of bounce or exile removal, neither of which really existed in jund. You -can- still run Karakas, it's just awkward in jund colors.

Uh...you could try some sort of exile target land removal, like Sowing Salt -- it would just be rough for them to actually extend into it, and SS is a sorcery (as is most land destruction), so it'll be hard for you to resolve it even if they offer the target for you. Diabolic Edict will likely help -- you'll just have to try to keep the board as clear as you possibly can.

Yeah, LD just seems too slow and narrow; there was a black spell in Theros block which exiled 1 or more creatures, but it costs 4 mana and only helps vs Marit Lage. Karakas is a good answer which helps against both, I had it in my mind, but yeah, having it in Jund is awkward. IIRC, I also have 2 Pithing Needles in my SB, so I might try to use those aggressively against KotR/Hexmage/lands.

Well, thanks for the ideas. I'll do my best tomorrow, maybe even post results.


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[Arianrhod]

Yeah, LD just seems too slow and narrow; there was a black spell in Theros block which exiled 1 or more creatures, but it costs 4 mana and only helps vs Marit Lage. Karakas is a good answer which helps against both, I had it in my mind, but yeah, having it in Jund is awkward. IIRC, I also have 2 Pithing Needles in my SB, so I might try to use those aggressively against KotR/Hexmage/lands.

Well, thanks for the ideas. I'll do my best tomorrow, maybe even post results.


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Slaughter Games usually wraps up Sneak and Show in a nice, neat little bow. I would be much less worried about that matchup and much more worried about Merit Lage, especially since whatever answers you can run can also be Decayed (Pithing Needle, Bridge, etc).

What about some kind of threaten effect? Act of Treason etc? I mean you'd have to tank a hit which is kind of awkward (or force him to make the Merit during your mainphase 1 somehow), but it would certainly work.

Alternatively, you could do something very unexpected and Blood Moon them. You probably sideboard out your Explorers if you're going to run that plan out of the board, but it would answer any and all Merit Lage related problems. The funny thing about Blood Moon in Nic Fit is that your opponents never fetch basics because they know we don't play Wasteland and they want value out of our Explorers -- and we fetch basics anyway because we don't want to get Wasted out, so we could both catch them with their pants down -and- act like everything is normal while setting up the Moon.

Just a thought.

[heat_wave]

Slaughter Games usually wraps up Sneak and Show in a nice, neat little bow. I would be much less worried about that matchup and much more worried about Merit Lage, especially since whatever answers you can run can also be Decayed (Pithing Needle, Bridge, etc).

What about some kind of threaten effect? Act of Treason etc? I mean you'd have to tank a hit which is kind of awkward (or force him to make the Merit during your mainphase 1 somehow), but it would certainly work.

Alternatively, you could do something very unexpected and Blood Moon them. You probably sideboard out your Explorers if you're going to run that plan out of the board, but it would answer any and all Merit Lage related problems. The funny thing about Blood Moon in Nic Fit is that your opponents never fetch basics because they know we don't play Wasteland and they want value out of our Explorers -- and we fetch basics anyway because we don't want to get Wasted out, so we could both catch them with their pants down -and- act like everything is normal while setting up the Moon.

Just a thought.

Threaten is fine, plus they probably won't have other fliers to block. I'm usually sitting at a comfortable 22-25 life when Marit Lage comes, so taking a hit is possible. I really like the Blood Moon route, though. We have good and diverse threats, so I should just play it as usual after landing Moon, right? Or is there any difference?

I've also just recalled Sarkhan the Mad. I tested him on Cockatrice earlier, and he provides CA with Top while also solving the unkillable monster problem.


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[Tom4ik]

I have been running 2 blood moons in my SB for about 6 months now and I love it. Lands type decks can be a big problem and blood moon either buys tons of time or in some cases keep them locked out. I rarely bring it in against delver type decks but reserve it as a card for shardless bug type mana bases that play a slow control game or against the marit lage decks. My Sb the last few tournements has been 2 blood moon, 2 surgical, 3 reb, 2 golgari charm, 1 chains of meph, 2 slaughter games, 1 abrubt decay, 2 duress.

[tescrin]

If looking at Doom Engine, can't we compare to Grave Titan and hand it to him?
-Still bigger than goyf, and basically unblockable against S&T. Kills anything in Legacy that isn't TNN
-More permanents makes him nigh-unkillable for walkers and help with S&T
-His chumps and attacking chumps help get through the garbage they could block with

Scuttling Doom Engine seems best as a free-attack "GOTCHA!" with a sac outlet for 12, but again, you could've just attacked for 10 with Titan in Magical Christmas Land and Titan can attack through a Nimble Mongoose or Delver. Swords doesn't make titan quite as sad.

EDIT:
I should note that getting around TNN and such by simply swarming is a nice advantage compared to just not getting chumped by Souls. Souls stops *maybe* one Titan attack but TNN is nothing. TNN still chumps Doomy-doomson all day.

[Elfkid]

Today I found this sweet but probably not totally nic fit decklist: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/241734#online

What do you think about it guys? I dont know why is not running Karakas, but the Stoneforge Package is swweeet :P

Regards! ^^

[Firepaw3]

Went 6-3 at eternal extravaganza today with scapewish
2-1 Junk
2-0 merfolk
2-0 U/W stoneblade
1-2 Miracles (Garrett Fehon)
2-1 Shardless bant thopter foundry
2-1 UR delver (Brett Schmuckler)
1-2 Burn
2-0 Shardless BUG
1-2 BUG Pod Fit (Zackery Shulz)

Always nice to see a fellow nic fit player, unfortunate we had to play
I used the same 75 from Baltimore

[Barook]

The following Junk list did pretty well, 4-0 two times in the last few days in MODO daily events:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/241795#online

Since I owned already a good chunk of the cards, I bought the rest and made the following changes:

-4 Misty Rainforest (probably a budget choice for that player)
+4 Windswept Heath

Any tips for a Nic Fit newbie? I want to use it in some daily events after getting some practice.

Edit: Didn't saw Elfkid was talking about the same list. How about replacing one Plains with a Karakas?

[Elfkid]

Edit: Didn't saw Elfkid was talking about the same list. How about replacing one Plains with a Karakas?

I think Karakas is necesary now, but the problem is that we can´t search it vs show and tell matchups

Speaking about Nic Fit variants I was very interested in the Punishing Fire version, but probably I will try the BUG or the Junk, but the Scapewishfit is very interesant too.

(In MODO Karakas is so cheap, so I think the guy prefer not play it)

[Barook]

One thing I already feared and which also reared its ugly head against Miracles is the inability of the build to deal with Planeswalkers in its current form.

I think Maelstrom Pulse/Vindicate is necessary.

[Elfkid]

One thing I already feared and which also reared its ugly head against Miracles is the inability of the build to deal with Planeswalkers in its current form.

I think Maelstrom Pulse/Vindicate is necessary.

Probably Maelstrom Pulse is more polivalent, vs empty, lingerings and more than 1 tarmogoyf/ fattie

I like the stonefroge package, and the deathrite shaman is good, but not trhun? I think thrun is so good now, probably better than courser...

@HoneyT: I will finish to buy your decklist and I will play it in a few weeks on a 30+ Player tournament, if u have time, can u explain how to sideboard vs diferent matchups? there are thing that are logic, but others... haha

Regards!!

[Barook]

Now I just said "Fuck it" and bought the missing parts of Punishing Nic Fit as well. I'll give this list a spin:

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Primeval Titan
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Cabal Therapy

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Slaughter Games
2 Golgari Charm
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
3 Pyroblast

I don't have Lilianas nor can I afford them right now, so I'm sticking with Edicts for now. What's the reasoning for Carpet of Flowers over Choke in the board? And against what is Extraction normally used?