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Thread: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

  1. #7441
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Before I sold all my cards years ago and had some vintage decks I just loved gifts so maybe it just me wanting to get that card to work in legacy but its just such a fun card I love to play with it again and feel if any deck can make a gifts pile work it would be this one.

  2. #7442
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom4ik View Post
    Before I sold all my cards years ago and had some vintage decks I just loved gifts so maybe it just me wanting to get that card to work in legacy but its just such a fun card I love to play with it again and feel if any deck can make a gifts pile work it would be this one.
    Then, you should also consider straight BUG Control.

  3. #7443
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    I might have just given myself an idea.

  4. #7444
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    I used to have a deck that used gifts as a pure value card.

    Off the top of my head:

    4 Veteran Explorer
    4 Baleful Strix
    2 Eternal Witness
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Terastodon

    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Tamiyo
    1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
    1 Karn Liberated

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Pernicious Deed
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Recurring Nightmare
    3 Gifts Ungiven

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    1 Island
    1 Phyrexian Tower

    I can't remember the SB unfortunately, I think it was full of Thoughtseizes, FoWs etc. It was a blast to play and more powerful than I expected really.

  5. #7445

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    I haven't played Nic Fit in a tournament in over a year now. I have turned to the dark side of casting Tezzerets, Stoneforges or Counterbalances, but I still skim through this thread from time to time and I have kept updated Nic Fit lists which I test occasionally. I have been thinking about Nic Fit more lately cause its a really fun deck and it seems like it is decently positioned right now, with elves being the combo deck of choice, a resurgence of mid-range GBx decks, and D&T and miracles also being not-terrible matchups. This post is basically just a collection of my (hopefully constructive) criticisms of the deck, and ways I think you guys can improve it. I'll be honest though, I probably won't be playing nic fit again too soon and I probably won't continue trying to develop these ideas too much past this post.

    I agree with BWG (Askaban?) being pretty bad. Rector is not what it used to be, and no offense Kevin, but even your list where you trimmed Scuttles, there are still too many cute things. Your assessment about why fighting blues late game are spot on though.

    As someone who has been on the opposite end of the table for a while, I can tell you, I always feel great when a veteran explore dies and I get to even closer to doing silly things like Snapcastering a FoW. The main issue is against the blue deck, basically all of their cards do something relevant late game. Land, STPS on an empty board, or countermagic on a losing board might be THE ONLY draws that suck. They also have ways to improve the card quality. Nic Fit has a lot more situationally terrible cards and less deck manipulation. The late game cards are not that much better than UWx decks lategame cards. Like is Thragtusk even better than a SFM? A lot of the time no. Batterskull, will in the end, overcome thrag and be more impactful. If you want to beat blue decks, you need to 1. go way over their head with value or power, (pod, pfire, PW, or scapeshift) and 2. not have so many situationally bad cards that the blue player only has to actually care about 1/3rd of the cards you draw.

    1. You guys know how to do this. Pod, Pfire, Jaces/garruk/karn or scapeshift are the engines.

    2. Is what I think a lot of people need to improve the most.

    Its little things that add up. Here are just a few examples of specific card choices:

    Play 4 tops in non-brainstorm versions that want top. I was crazy to think 3 was ok, back in the day. Top is never a bad draw, even in drawing 2-3 of them is fine. They cantrip next time you shuffle.

    Maximize, your fetchlands in scapeshift. 10 mountains is fine. Yes, you'll lose 1 in 100 games because you NEEDED 11 mountains but when you draw a fetch instead of a stomping ground every 1 in 3 games, you will be much happier.

    If you are playing blue play 4 brainstorms, 4 probes, 2-4 Jace, is non-negotiable. These cards are too good. About probe: Probe is secretly the best card in legacy right now. It's not about making a 56 card deck, counting as a blue card, or making therapies better (although the later is very nice). It's good because it lets you operate under prefect information. Imagine all the times you primitively blew a deed gambling their hand was just dead cards, the times you take the more aggressive play and force them to have it (which they do), all those moments where you said, "I did the right play that anyone would have done, it just wasn't the best play", cause who would have guessed his hand was his 1-of Supreme Verdict and you zenithed for Sigarda instead of thrag/thrun? I'll tell you who could have guessed: the guy with gitaxian probes in his deck.

    Please, stop playing slaughter games in the MD. Just play thoughtseize or something that actually is guaranteed to effect the game. Yes, games can actually just beat S&T, and it can kinda hurt miracles, but then its bad like 95% of the rest of the time you see it. Goodstuff like thoughtseize, or abrupt decay are probably only bad closer to 30% of the time you see them.

    TL;DR: In general, play more of the stuff that decent regularly, and less of the stuff that's rarely awesome and frequently lame.


    ------------


    The below list is not perfect, but I think it a step closer to the right direction. I still think Scapewish is one of the most fun decks I have ever played in magic (thanks Kevin), and I think it is actually decently positioned right now. If I were to play it tomorrow I would run this:

    3 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    3 Forest
    2 Mountain
    1 Stomping Ground
    2 Swamp
    4 Taiga
    2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Wooded Foothills
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Thoughtseize
    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Abrupt Decay
    4 Burning Wish
    1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Courser of Kruphix
    1 Eternal Witness
    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Huntmaster of the Fells
    2 Scapeshift
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Primeval Titan

    #60

    1 Innocent Blood
    1 Reanimate
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 From the Ashes
    1 Scapeshift
    1 Slaughter Games

    I have not tested as much with BUG, so take this more of a grain of salt, but again I think something like this good starting place for the "BUG goodstuff" approach which Kevin mentioned. I also think BUG Pod is a great approach (possibly the best approach), I just have not had time to test it really.


    2 Bayou
    2 Creeping Tar Pit
    3 Forest
    2 Island
    1 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Swamp
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Verdant Catacombs

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Baleful Strix
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Courser of Kruphix
    1 Eternal Witness
    3 Pernicious Deed
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    2 Force of Will
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Primeval Titan

    #60

    3 Carpet of Flowers
    3 Negate
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Toxic Deluge
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Force of Will
    2 Garruk, Primal Hunter

    Another option which is possibly better for goodstuff, the above MD, but dropping titan, 1 tarpit, 1 GSZ for a 2nd Thrag and bringing the 2 Garruks MD. Titan, isn't great, but I dont think there is a better option yet. It is also possible Nissa is better than Primal Hunter. I have not tried her yet.

    EDIT: A few things I forgot: BUG SB probably should have Swan Songs, and Notion Thief. Maybe wolf run in scapeshift. Maybe Stronghold in BUG. Maybe reclaimation sage in the 75 of both.
    Question about your Scapewish list, Why only one huntmaster? Most lists I see seem to have 2 or more. Also, why the Coursers? Have they been good for you? I used to run them in my modern Jund scapshift list and I cut them from there because they did not do enough. I am glad I wasn't the only one raising my eyebrows at all the MD slaughter games. I also just noticed the lack of wood elves, have they been under-preforming too? TBH your list is pretty different than alot of lists out there and I just wanted to know why you are making some of the choices you are.

  6. #7446
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfkatt View Post
    Question about your Scapewish list, Why only one huntmaster? Most lists I see seem to have 2 or more. Also, why the Coursers? Have they been good for you? I used to run them in my modern Jund scapshift list and I cut them from there because they did not do enough. I am glad I wasn't the only one raising my eyebrows at all the MD slaughter games. I also just noticed the lack of wood elves, have they been under-preforming too? TBH your list is pretty different than alot of lists out there and I just wanted to know why you are making some of the choices you are.
    Courser could be wrong, but hes seems pretty good so far. The synergy with top is nice and his body and lifegain are not irrelevant. Scapewish has to play the most situationally bad cards. Course is one them, but wood elves is not any better. I always preferred Tribe elder to wood elves anyways.

    I do not like huntmaster. He is almost always worse than tarmogoyf. Elves, and against a PW are the only times I am really happy to have huntmaster. I actually would not mind swapping the huntmaster for a 2nd thragtusk. I feel often like the only reason I was running HM was cause I felt like I was supposed run some cards and I had to have a 4 drop. Those are not good reasons to run a card. If you think the decks needs a back up beat down plan. HM is not the card to do that. Goyf or Ooze are much better choices.

  7. #7447

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    Courser could be wrong, but hes seems pretty good so far. The synergy with top is nice and his body and lifegain are not irrelevant. Scapewish has to play the most situationally bad cards. Course is one them, but wood elves is not any better. I always preferred Tribe elder to wood elves anyways.

    I do not like huntmaster. He is almost always worse than tarmogoyf. Elves, and against a PW are the only times I am really happy to have huntmaster. I actually would not mind swapping the huntmaster for a 2nd thragtusk. I feel often like the only reason I was running HM was cause I felt like I was supposed run some cards and I had to have a 4 drop. Those are not good reasons to run a card. If you think the decks needs a back up beat down plan. HM is not the card to do that. Goyf or Ooze are much better choices.
    Can you provide a deck list? Talk of more Thrag makes me happy.


    Also, I've been out of the legacy loop for a while. For Punishing players, what are your sideboards holding these days? Anyone running maindeck Surgical?

  8. #7448

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    How do you make a good sideboard with this deck? There are so many cards to consider individually and you also have to consider how they work together...how do you go about doing it?

  9. #7449

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by pfiremc13 View Post
    How do you make a good sideboard with this deck? There are so many cards to consider individually and you also have to consider how they work together...how do you go about doing it?
    As noted above, I haven't played legacy in months. But when I was actively playing, some SB cards were auto-includes. (I play Punishing NicFit)

    Surgical Extraction
    Red Elemental Blast
    Thoughtseize
    Toxic Deluge/Perish

    These are all intended to give you an edge against combo (as that is PFit's weakest matchup). I also enjoyed Carpet of Flowers considering the majority of the meta is Blue.

  10. #7450
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    FINALLY~

    BUG Pod gets a good GSZ-able top of the curve creature.

    Sagu Mauler: 4GU
    Trample, Hexproof
    Morph: 3GU
    6/6

    I am going back to the drawing board in case something better than Junk Pod comes out of it.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  11. #7451

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    FINALLY~

    BUG Pod gets a good GSZ-able top of the curve creature.

    Sagu Mauler: 4GU
    Trample, Hexproof
    Morph: 3GU
    6/6

    I am going back to the drawing board in case something better than Junk Pod comes out of it.
    Have you had success against Miracles with any version of Pod?

  12. #7452
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
    Courser could be wrong, but hes seems pretty good so far. The synergy with top is nice and his body and lifegain are not irrelevant. Scapewish has to play the most situationally bad cards. Course is one them, but wood elves is not any better. I always preferred Tribe elder to wood elves anyways.

    I do not like huntmaster. He is almost always worse than tarmogoyf. Elves, and against a PW are the only times I am really happy to have huntmaster. I actually would not mind swapping the huntmaster for a 2nd thragtusk. I feel often like the only reason I was running HM was cause I felt like I was supposed run some cards and I had to have a 4 drop. Those are not good reasons to run a card. If you think the decks needs a back up beat down plan. HM is not the card to do that. Goyf or Ooze are much better choices.
    Courser has been heavily tested by a couple of posters (including me).
    It was essentially tested in Punishing version, so its role may be different in Scapeshift.

    Courser is not bad BUT @CMC 3 you will likely never waste a GSZ for him. It does not impact the board and does not allow you to play an additional land per turn like say Oracle of Mul Daya -> He got the axe.

    By extension, I would say its role would be very much the same in Scape:

    Pros:
    - Provide a better body than wood elves
    - Provide life gain
    - Provide more CA in the long term
    - Good synergy with Top

    Cons:
    - Does not let you ramp.
    - CA is conditional = your library's top card must be a land and you must not have already played a land this turn. It means the following logical consequence:
    1) Playing him by T3= NO CA
    2) GSZing for him T4= NO CA
    => which makes it finally very bad (potential CA from T4 if you have it in hand OR T5 if you GSZ for it)
    - You MUST play with the top card of your library revealed. And if you are concern, YES it does matter.

    All in all, if I had to state, he would not replace "wood elves" in scapeshift.
    The real deal is to be able to scape as fast as possible and courser does not let you ramp.

    My 2 cents.

  13. #7453
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    A new clone that can copy any nonland permanent. I could see him as a one-off in BUG pod lists.


  14. #7454
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmans View Post
    A new clone that can copy any nonland permanent. I could see him as a one-off in BUG pod lists.
    Mythics continue to not make sense to me, but I wouldn't be overly surprised to see this in a 75 sometime in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    tits.

  15. #7455
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    What about the BUG explorer with B pod and Food chain in maindeck? this decklist:

    http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13164&iddeck=96585

    Its still viable? or we need to change something?

    Regards!! :D

  16. #7456
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Here's my rough draft of a 'standard' BUG Nic Fit (no gimmicks like Pod, Food Chain, etc):

    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Baleful Strix
    1 Coiling Oracle
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Fierce Empath
    2 Notion Thief
    1 Venser, Shaper Savant
    1 Master of the Wild Hunt
    1 The Mimeoplasm
    1 Shriekmaw
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Consecrated Sphinx
    1 Frost Titan

    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Diabolic Intent

    2 Abrupt Decay

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave

    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Future Sight
    1 Recurring Nightmare

    2 Sensei's Divining Top

    3 Underground Sea
    3 Tropical Island
    2 Bayou
    2 Forest
    2 Island
    2 Swamp
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
    1 Phyrexian Tower

    sb::
    1 Bribery
    1 Haunting Echoes
    1 Abrupt Decay
    2 Glen Elendra Archmage
    1 Krosan Grip
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Cranial Extraction
    2 Vendilion Clique
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Golgari Charm

    ----------------

    Breakdown:

    3/1 split between Strix and Oracle is mostly for GSZ considerations, plus Oracle can randomly be slightly better when Future Sight is out or in other corner case scenarios. It's Zenithable. etc. Might be better just as a 4th Strix, but I dunno. Worth testing.

    Empath is back. This is primarily so you can tutor up Frost Titan when vs Show and Tell, but also gives you a hair bit more threat density and enables bomb access via Zenith...same thing it's always done. Note that the inclusion of Empath makes me feel better about running Diabolic Intent, because I have no issues sacrifice this thing once it's done its job.

    2 maindeck Notion Thief -- I've said before that this thing is underplayed, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is. It's both a draw engine and effective hate for opposing blue decks, as well as randomly enabling blowouts vs some combo decks (High Tide comes immediately to mind....nice Time Spiral bro).

    Venser is still ludicrous tempo. Jace bouncing him can enable a limited amount of abuse....obviously nothing like the Deadeye decks, but he's still a reasonable card without potential for too much abuse.

    Master of the Wild Hunt is simply the most threatening 4-drop green creature currently in existence. He's better than Reaper, and he's better than Chameleon Colossus. He's not better than Spike Weaver per se, but fulfills a different purpose.

    Mimeoplasm allows you to rebuy any of your bombs that have been killed already, and sometimes lets you take a True-Name and make it huge on your side. Good value creature that can be either answer or threat depending on what you need. He's also impervious to graveyard hate -- his ability doesn't target, which means that opposing Deathrites need to do their thing while he's on the stack. If you Zenith him up, they don't get the opportunity to stop you from getting the juiciest of goods.

    Shriekmaw is my concession to wanting both another removal spell and another creature.

    Thrag is Thrag, ConSphinx is ConSphinx. Nothing to see here.

    Frost Titan gets my nod for the 2nd best 6-drop in BUG colors. It has a limited amount of protection (spell pierces everything hostile that would target it), and can lock down basically any problem while simultaneously punching. Also, lolshowandtell.

    2 Zeniths because there's a lot of non-green creatures in this deck, as always with BUG-colored nic fits.

    Diabolic Intent because Demonic Tutor is broken. 19 creatures+2 Zenith in this list, and with the amount of card advantage present, you should be able to reliably fire it off. Also, not revealing what you tutor for enables sick blowouts with Notion Thief. It can also just get a land (more on this later).

    2 Decays because Delver of Secrets exists. Blah. If I feel I can get away with it, I might try these slots as Sultai Charms post-Khans. I fully recognize that that's greedy as fuck though.

    2 Jace, 2 Kiora. I have no idea if Kiora is actually good enough. I'm going to try her and find out. My gut says that she won't be good enough here, and needs to be in a full-on planeswalker control builds to actually pull her weight.

    Deed, yay. Nightmare, yay. Future Sight is broken in fucking half. I shouldn't have to explain why that's here.

    Tops, yay. Only two because this list has a lot of card draw // potential card draw.

    Lands, yay.

    Mikokoro is sick tech with Notion Thief + ConSphinx. I do this to people in vintage, and it's both amazing and hilarious -- the exact confluence of things that I desire to be at. Even if you're not breaking it, we're back to Selvala here -- usually your things should be worth more than their things. When you've got a Thief or a Sphinx, though, you're either drawing 2 for 2, or drawing 3 they draw 1 for 2 ... both of which are completely "reasonable."

    Sideboard's kind of a clusterfuck.

    Bribery is amazing at shoring up random matchups (12post, MUD, etc), can take Miracles' Keranos, good vs Reanimator and Sneak...etc. Lol mirrors.

    Haunting Echoes is because I couldn't really think of anything else for a good fair.dec bomb to bring in. It performed reasonably for me when I tried it in Scape, and I think it could be better here. Worth testing, not holding my breath.

    3rd Decay because Delver exists.

    Glen Elendras shit on most combo decks + Miracles.

    Grip because Miracles, Stoneblade, random.dec.

    Flusters are good vs a lot of things...generic good sideboard card. Same with Thoughtseize and Cranial.

    Cliques are primarily for combo and Miracles (clique away the miracle in resp to trigger).

    Deluge is for Elves and TNN decks.

    Charm is basically Deluge but has random upside when you get to regen a Verdict or blow up an enchantment.

    --------

    Again, this is just a rough sketch before I start working on it. Thoughts/comments/etc welcome as always, unless you suggest Grave Titan.

  17. #7457
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    So where is Grave Titan? he is 10 power for 6!?!?!

    kidding.

    A few comments:
    -First and formost, I do not agree with the lack of Brainstorm. I know it reduces your deck size which you are firmly against but I cant see that being a good enough reason to not play it. Just make sure your deck is powerful enough in what it runs that you dont need to jam multiple bombs to be winning. Take it for what thats worth....
    - I do not like oracle, you should never be gsz for that effect. if you want that many 2 mana cantrips strix is better. Both the flying and deathtouch are relevant but the oracle is not.
    - I do not believe you need empath, master of the hunt nor mimeoplasm. They are all situational and/or slow. If you added bstorm you wouldnt need empath anyway. I would replace mimeo plasm with smth else that is more consistently a big beater too.
    - In this build with way more creatures I like the intent. You run enough late game bombs that are variable in how powerful they are that the tutor will be broken if it resolves
    - I think Kiora is not right for this deck. I think the best thing about her is that she is blue so in builds with force (md/sb) that she helps with that count while being another walker with utility. I would rather see a garruk which helps make tokens for sacrifice, or the beatdown plan that this deck will be employing more often than it seems. veil cursed seems the right one as the tutor effect will be powerful here.
    - I dont think mikokoro is the land to run for your colorless land. I know it has certain synergy but I dont think its worth its spot. but There is a lot of ways to abuse it here so let me know how it goes.
    - I am for sure interested to see where you take this tho.
    - If you do use mimeoplasm any thought on some type of intuition/gifts pile to try to make him insane?

    I hope I dont sound to negative on this original deck list idea and I dont assume my thoughts are right but just some food for though on your main deck choices at first glance.

  18. #7458
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Oh god...maindeck Lotion Theif?



    You might have just convinced me to try this deck again.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  19. #7459
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom4ik View Post
    So where is Grave Titan? he is 10 power for 6!?!?!

    kidding.

    A few comments:
    -First and formost, I do not agree with the lack of Brainstorm. I know it reduces your deck size which you are firmly against but I cant see that being a good enough reason to not play it. Just make sure your deck is powerful enough in what it runs that you dont need to jam multiple bombs to be winning. Take it for what thats worth....
    - I do not like oracle, you should never be gsz for that effect. if you want that many 2 mana cantrips strix is better. Both the flying and deathtouch are relevant but the oracle is not.
    - I do not believe you need empath, master of the hunt nor mimeoplasm. They are all situational and/or slow. If you added bstorm you wouldnt need empath anyway. I would replace mimeo plasm with smth else that is more consistently a big beater too.
    - In this build with way more creatures I like the intent. You run enough late game bombs that are variable in how powerful they are that the tutor will be broken if it resolves
    - I think Kiora is not right for this deck. I think the best thing about her is that she is blue so in builds with force (md/sb) that she helps with that count while being another walker with utility. I would rather see a garruk which helps make tokens for sacrifice, or the beatdown plan that this deck will be employing more often than it seems. veil cursed seems the right one as the tutor effect will be powerful here.
    - I dont think mikokoro is the land to run for your colorless land. I know it has certain synergy but I dont think its worth its spot. but There is a lot of ways to abuse it here so let me know how it goes.
    - I am for sure interested to see where you take this tho.
    - If you do use mimeoplasm any thought on some type of intuition/gifts pile to try to make him insane?

    I hope I dont sound to negative on this original deck list idea and I dont assume my thoughts are right but just some food for though on your main deck choices at first glance.
    I actually originally had 3 Brainstorms along with the 2 Tops, but ended up cutting them for space when I realized that I was cutting into my creature base too much.

    I can agree with Oracle probably not being good enough. I tend to like to fire off my Zeniths asap so that they can shuffle back in and be re-used...but this may just be a deck where it's wiser to sandbag them for a few turns.

    I can agree with trimming Empath because I generally hate that card and am always looking for an excuse to ditch it. Can't agree with Master and Mimeo. There isn't a better 4-drop green than Master of the Wild Hunt -- if you have any suggestions I'll happily hear them and offer my reasoning. Mimeo doesn't need help to be good, actually. Against some decks he'll be average to subpar in the early game (Miracles comes to mind), but he recovers value in those matchups as the clock ticks on. He'll usually be fine in most matchups.

    Kiora is probably not correct for this build. I do want to test a few games with her and make up my mind off of actual games rather than just theorycrafting and pontificating, though.

    Mikokoro is 150% good enough in vintage, which is basically this exact deck except you get Dack and to be a lot more broken. I'm for sure going to test it before dismissing it.

    tl;dr: -1 Empath, -2 Kiora, +3 Brainstorm; -1 Oracle, +1 ??? (2-3 drop creature)

  20. #7460

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    I actually originally had 3 Brainstorms along with the 2 Tops, but ended up cutting them for space when I realized that I was cutting into my creature base too much.

    I can agree with Oracle probably not being good enough. I tend to like to fire off my Zeniths asap so that they can shuffle back in and be re-used...but this may just be a deck where it's wiser to sandbag them for a few turns.

    I can agree with trimming Empath because I generally hate that card and am always looking for an excuse to ditch it. Can't agree with Master and Mimeo. There isn't a better 4-drop green than Master of the Wild Hunt -- if you have any suggestions I'll happily hear them and offer my reasoning. Mimeo doesn't need help to be good, actually. Against some decks he'll be average to subpar in the early game (Miracles comes to mind), but he recovers value in those matchups as the clock ticks on. He'll usually be fine in most matchups.

    Kiora is probably not correct for this build. I do want to test a few games with her and make up my mind off of actual games rather than just theorycrafting and pontificating, though.

    Mikokoro is 150% good enough in vintage, which is basically this exact deck except you get Dack and to be a lot more broken. I'm for sure going to test it before dismissing it.

    tl;dr: -1 Empath, -2 Kiora, +3 Brainstorm; -1 Oracle, +1 ??? (2-3 drop creature)
    During the brief period when I tested the BUG planeswalker deck I really liked Garruk Relentless. That deck had to lean on Garruk a lot more to pump out creatures which this might not need as much. But the synergy with deed is still there, and it still is a nice way to kill an unflipped(or flipped in a pinch) delver or stoneforge and get value. You even have good creatures to tutor for. I think it would be quite good instead of Kiora.
    Not including a scavenging ooze when you're playing any number of GSZ just seems bizarre to me. It would improve your game 1 against several decks with just 1 slot.

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