Before I sold all my cards years ago and had some vintage decks I just loved gifts so maybe it just me wanting to get that card to work in legacy but its just such a fun card I love to play with it again and feel if any deck can make a gifts pile work it would be this one.
I might have just given myself an idea.
I used to have a deck that used gifts as a pure value card.
Off the top of my head:
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Baleful Strix
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Terastodon
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Karn Liberated
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Phyrexian Tower
I can't remember the SB unfortunately, I think it was full of Thoughtseizes, FoWs etc. It was a blast to play and more powerful than I expected really.
Question about your Scapewish list, Why only one huntmaster? Most lists I see seem to have 2 or more. Also, why the Coursers? Have they been good for you? I used to run them in my modern Jund scapshift list and I cut them from there because they did not do enough. I am glad I wasn't the only one raising my eyebrows at all the MD slaughter games. I also just noticed the lack of wood elves, have they been under-preforming too? TBH your list is pretty different than alot of lists out there and I just wanted to know why you are making some of the choices you are.
Courser could be wrong, but hes seems pretty good so far. The synergy with top is nice and his body and lifegain are not irrelevant. Scapewish has to play the most situationally bad cards. Course is one them, but wood elves is not any better. I always preferred Tribe elder to wood elves anyways.
I do not like huntmaster. He is almost always worse than tarmogoyf. Elves, and against a PW are the only times I am really happy to have huntmaster. I actually would not mind swapping the huntmaster for a 2nd thragtusk. I feel often like the only reason I was running HM was cause I felt like I was supposed run some cards and I had to have a 4 drop. Those are not good reasons to run a card. If you think the decks needs a back up beat down plan. HM is not the card to do that. Goyf or Ooze are much better choices.
How do you make a good sideboard with this deck? There are so many cards to consider individually and you also have to consider how they work together...how do you go about doing it?
As noted above, I haven't played legacy in months. But when I was actively playing, some SB cards were auto-includes. (I play Punishing NicFit)
Surgical Extraction
Red Elemental Blast
Thoughtseize
Toxic Deluge/Perish
These are all intended to give you an edge against combo (as that is PFit's weakest matchup). I also enjoyed Carpet of Flowers considering the majority of the meta is Blue.
FINALLY~
BUG Pod gets a good GSZ-able top of the curve creature.
Sagu Mauler: 4GU
Trample, Hexproof
Morph: 3GU
6/6
I am going back to the drawing board in case something better than Junk Pod comes out of it.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Courser has been heavily tested by a couple of posters (including me).
It was essentially tested in Punishing version, so its role may be different in Scapeshift.
Courser is not bad BUT @CMC 3 you will likely never waste a GSZ for him. It does not impact the board and does not allow you to play an additional land per turn like say Oracle of Mul Daya -> He got the axe.
By extension, I would say its role would be very much the same in Scape:
Pros:
- Provide a better body than wood elves
- Provide life gain
- Provide more CA in the long term
- Good synergy with Top
Cons:
- Does not let you ramp.
- CA is conditional = your library's top card must be a land and you must not have already played a land this turn. It means the following logical consequence:
1) Playing him by T3= NO CA
2) GSZing for him T4= NO CA
=> which makes it finally very bad (potential CA from T4 if you have it in hand OR T5 if you GSZ for it)
- You MUST play with the top card of your library revealed. And if you are concern, YES it does matter.
All in all, if I had to state, he would not replace "wood elves" in scapeshift.
The real deal is to be able to scape as fast as possible and courser does not let you ramp.
My 2 cents.
A new clone that can copy any nonland permanent. I could see him as a one-off in BUG pod lists.
![]()
What about the BUG explorer with B pod and Food chain in maindeck? this decklist:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13164&iddeck=96585
Its still viable? or we need to change something?
Regards!! :D
Here's my rough draft of a 'standard' BUG Nic Fit (no gimmicks like Pod, Food Chain, etc):
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
2 Notion Thief
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 The Mimeoplasm
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Frost Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Future Sight
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower
sb::
1 Bribery
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cranial Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
----------------
Breakdown:
3/1 split between Strix and Oracle is mostly for GSZ considerations, plus Oracle can randomly be slightly better when Future Sight is out or in other corner case scenarios. It's Zenithable. etc. Might be better just as a 4th Strix, but I dunno. Worth testing.
Empath is back. This is primarily so you can tutor up Frost Titan when vs Show and Tell, but also gives you a hair bit more threat density and enables bomb access via Zenith...same thing it's always done. Note that the inclusion of Empath makes me feel better about running Diabolic Intent, because I have no issues sacrifice this thing once it's done its job.
2 maindeck Notion Thief -- I've said before that this thing is underplayed, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is. It's both a draw engine and effective hate for opposing blue decks, as well as randomly enabling blowouts vs some combo decks (High Tide comes immediately to mind....nice Time Spiral bro).
Venser is still ludicrous tempo. Jace bouncing him can enable a limited amount of abuse....obviously nothing like the Deadeye decks, but he's still a reasonable card without potential for too much abuse.
Master of the Wild Hunt is simply the most threatening 4-drop green creature currently in existence. He's better than Reaper, and he's better than Chameleon Colossus. He's not better than Spike Weaver per se, but fulfills a different purpose.
Mimeoplasm allows you to rebuy any of your bombs that have been killed already, and sometimes lets you take a True-Name and make it huge on your side. Good value creature that can be either answer or threat depending on what you need. He's also impervious to graveyard hate -- his ability doesn't target, which means that opposing Deathrites need to do their thing while he's on the stack. If you Zenith him up, they don't get the opportunity to stop you from getting the juiciest of goods.
Shriekmaw is my concession to wanting both another removal spell and another creature.
Thrag is Thrag, ConSphinx is ConSphinx. Nothing to see here.
Frost Titan gets my nod for the 2nd best 6-drop in BUG colors. It has a limited amount of protection (spell pierces everything hostile that would target it), and can lock down basically any problem while simultaneously punching. Also, lolshowandtell.
2 Zeniths because there's a lot of non-green creatures in this deck, as always with BUG-colored nic fits.
Diabolic Intent because Demonic Tutor is broken. 19 creatures+2 Zenith in this list, and with the amount of card advantage present, you should be able to reliably fire it off. Also, not revealing what you tutor for enables sick blowouts with Notion Thief. It can also just get a land (more on this later).
2 Decays because Delver of Secrets exists. Blah. If I feel I can get away with it, I might try these slots as Sultai Charms post-Khans. I fully recognize that that's greedy as fuck though.
2 Jace, 2 Kiora. I have no idea if Kiora is actually good enough. I'm going to try her and find out. My gut says that she won't be good enough here, and needs to be in a full-on planeswalker control builds to actually pull her weight.
Deed, yay. Nightmare, yay. Future Sight is broken in fucking half. I shouldn't have to explain why that's here.
Tops, yay. Only two because this list has a lot of card draw // potential card draw.
Lands, yay.
Mikokoro is sick tech with Notion Thief + ConSphinx. I do this to people in vintage, and it's both amazing and hilarious -- the exact confluence of things that I desire to be at. Even if you're not breaking it, we're back to Selvala here -- usually your things should be worth more than their things. When you've got a Thief or a Sphinx, though, you're either drawing 2 for 2, or drawing 3 they draw 1 for 2 ... both of which are completely "reasonable."
Sideboard's kind of a clusterfuck.
Bribery is amazing at shoring up random matchups (12post, MUD, etc), can take Miracles' Keranos, good vs Reanimator and Sneak...etc. Lol mirrors.
Haunting Echoes is because I couldn't really think of anything else for a good fair.dec bomb to bring in. It performed reasonably for me when I tried it in Scape, and I think it could be better here. Worth testing, not holding my breath.
3rd Decay because Delver exists.
Glen Elendras shit on most combo decks + Miracles.
Grip because Miracles, Stoneblade, random.dec.
Flusters are good vs a lot of things...generic good sideboard card. Same with Thoughtseize and Cranial.
Cliques are primarily for combo and Miracles (clique away the miracle in resp to trigger).
Deluge is for Elves and TNN decks.
Charm is basically Deluge but has random upside when you get to regen a Verdict or blow up an enchantment.
--------
Again, this is just a rough sketch before I start working on it. Thoughts/comments/etc welcome as always, unless you suggest Grave Titan.
So where is Grave Titan? he is 10 power for 6!?!?!
kidding.
A few comments:
-First and formost, I do not agree with the lack of Brainstorm. I know it reduces your deck size which you are firmly against but I cant see that being a good enough reason to not play it. Just make sure your deck is powerful enough in what it runs that you dont need to jam multiple bombs to be winning. Take it for what thats worth....
- I do not like oracle, you should never be gsz for that effect. if you want that many 2 mana cantrips strix is better. Both the flying and deathtouch are relevant but the oracle is not.
- I do not believe you need empath, master of the hunt nor mimeoplasm. They are all situational and/or slow. If you added bstorm you wouldnt need empath anyway. I would replace mimeo plasm with smth else that is more consistently a big beater too.
- In this build with way more creatures I like the intent. You run enough late game bombs that are variable in how powerful they are that the tutor will be broken if it resolves
- I think Kiora is not right for this deck. I think the best thing about her is that she is blue so in builds with force (md/sb) that she helps with that count while being another walker with utility. I would rather see a garruk which helps make tokens for sacrifice, or the beatdown plan that this deck will be employing more often than it seems. veil cursed seems the right one as the tutor effect will be powerful here.
- I dont think mikokoro is the land to run for your colorless land. I know it has certain synergy but I dont think its worth its spot. but There is a lot of ways to abuse it here so let me know how it goes.
- I am for sure interested to see where you take this tho.
- If you do use mimeoplasm any thought on some type of intuition/gifts pile to try to make him insane?
I hope I dont sound to negative on this original deck list idea and I dont assume my thoughts are right but just some food for though on your main deck choices at first glance.
Oh god...maindeck Lotion Theif?
You might have just convinced me to try this deck again.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
I actually originally had 3 Brainstorms along with the 2 Tops, but ended up cutting them for space when I realized that I was cutting into my creature base too much.
I can agree with Oracle probably not being good enough. I tend to like to fire off my Zeniths asap so that they can shuffle back in and be re-used...but this may just be a deck where it's wiser to sandbag them for a few turns.
I can agree with trimming Empath because I generally hate that card and am always looking for an excuse to ditch it. Can't agree with Master and Mimeo. There isn't a better 4-drop green than Master of the Wild Hunt -- if you have any suggestions I'll happily hear them and offer my reasoning. Mimeo doesn't need help to be good, actually. Against some decks he'll be average to subpar in the early game (Miracles comes to mind), but he recovers value in those matchups as the clock ticks on. He'll usually be fine in most matchups.
Kiora is probably not correct for this build. I do want to test a few games with her and make up my mind off of actual games rather than just theorycrafting and pontificating, though.
Mikokoro is 150% good enough in vintage, which is basically this exact deck except you get Dack and to be a lot more broken. I'm for sure going to test it before dismissing it.
tl;dr: -1 Empath, -2 Kiora, +3 Brainstorm; -1 Oracle, +1 ??? (2-3 drop creature)
During the brief period when I tested the BUG planeswalker deck I really liked Garruk Relentless. That deck had to lean on Garruk a lot more to pump out creatures which this might not need as much. But the synergy with deed is still there, and it still is a nice way to kill an unflipped(or flipped in a pinch) delver or stoneforge and get value. You even have good creatures to tutor for. I think it would be quite good instead of Kiora.
Not including a scavenging ooze when you're playing any number of GSZ just seems bizarre to me. It would improve your game 1 against several decks with just 1 slot.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)