[Deck] 12 Post

[sauce]

With all the flavor in KTK pointing towards Ugin and a return of the Eldrazi, I know I can't be the only one excited about the possibilities of getting some powerful new toys for our favorite archetype -- especially new incarnations of the legendary Eldrazi to tutor up. More immediately, I also would not be surprised to see Ugin himself show up by the end of this block, likely as a large colorless planeswalker at a power level on par with Karn or Bolas. Obviously this is pure speculation, but if we do in fact get Ugin, what kind of abilities do y'all think would be most useful here?

+1: Fog for next turn
-X: Tutoring for a colorless card from your library into your hand.
-Y: Reveal any number of colorless cards from your hand, make 1 colorless mana for each card revealed
-Ultimate: Play colorless card from hand for free & Timewalk

That would make me so happy.

[lotushead666]

Looking to start playing this deck as I am sick of playing OmniTell, and since I already have FoWs and Show and Tells, figured this might be a good transition. Plus I hate losing to Miracles, and from what I gather this has a decent Miracles matchup. What would be a good list to start with? I saw Sauce's list a few pages back, and it seems like that person has been playing it for quite some time and has had moderate success. The questions I was having as I was going through the main were a) why the one Khalni Garden and b) what is the MD Explosives mainly for? As far as the SB, I can tell you expected quite a bit of burn, which is something I want to be prepared for since a lot of people play it online.

[Zotmaster]

Looking to start playing this deck as I am sick of playing OmniTell, and since I already have FoWs and Show and Tells, figured this might be a good transition. Plus I hate losing to Miracles, and from what I gather this has a decent Miracles matchup. What would be a good list to start with? I saw Sauce's list a few pages back, and it seems like that person has been playing it for quite some time and has had moderate success. The questions I was having as I was going through the main were a) why the one Khalni Garden and b) what is the MD Explosives mainly for? As far as the SB, I can tell you expected quite a bit of burn, which is something I want to be prepared for since a lot of people play it online.

Good lists to start with would generally be a Rock Lee or Tim Harding list. Before his most recent post, my list was what Rock was running. I'm too lazy to find his post, but here it is on TappedOut: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/12-post-09-03-14-1/

Khalni Garden is a toolbox land. Its main purpose is to bring out by surprise via Crop Rotation to either block something (thereby functioning as pseudo-lifegain) or to sacrifice to, say, Liliana of the Veil, which means the creature they wanted you to sacrifice can now be used to smash face. I've also used it against Sneak and Show as an additional permanent to sacrifice to Emrakul, the Aeons Torn's annihilator.

As far as I know, Tim Harding has been running Engineered Explosives pretty much forever, and I used to run his list. Explosives on zero wipes out goblin tokens, Germs and flipped Delvers...or convinces a Delver player to not flip his Delvers into it. On one, it wipes out stuff like unflipped Delvers, Nimble Mongoose, Aether Vial, Deathrite Shaman, and Goblin Guide. On two, you can get rid of annoying permanents like Counterbalance and Tarmogoyf. In a pinch, the deck can produce four colors (or all five if you're running Rock's RUG or Nic Fit variants) which enables you to get rid of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Sneak Attack. Tim's list also ran Trinket Mage to go get it when needed. You can also overpay for Explosives to sneak it in under a Counterbalance: you could, say, use two colors of mana and throw five colorless mana into casting it. Unless they have CMC 7, Counterbalance can't counter it.

[caw_86]

Looking to start playing this deck as I am sick of playing OmniTell, and since I already have FoWs and Show and Tells, figured this might be a good transition. Plus I hate losing to Miracles, and from what I gather this has a decent Miracles matchup. What would be a good list to start with? I saw Sauce's list a few pages back, and it seems like that person has been playing it for quite some time and has had moderate success. The questions I was having as I was going through the main were a) why the one Khalni Garden and b) what is the MD Explosives mainly for? As far as the SB, I can tell you expected quite a bit of burn, which is something I want to be prepared for since a lot of people play it online.

the 2 vesuvas act as additional copies of any land you might need more then once when it comes to utility lands. which comes up almost every game. Zotmaster kinda went over this and EE, which can do everything and is tutorable with mage. dont think of the deck like a toolkit deck, this is deck has power tools, a table saw, a woodshed and 3 or 4 of those big red multi level tool boxes. the woodshed is where we take miracles for whoopins

the BEB are more relevant then just for burn.
sneak attack
through the breach
blood moon
magus of the moon
past in flames
price of progress
burning wish
rite of flame
sulfuric vortex

a lot of these cards can be back breaking if they resolve

[Rock Lee]

The list Zot posted is a good stock list. I think it is very similar to what Sauce runs in his youtube series. The moment's peace is the flex slot for meta variance, which could be EE. Read up though. All this is covered in previous pages.

[Togores]

Looking to start playing this deck as I am sick of playing OmniTell, and since I already have FoWs and Show and Tells, figured this might be a good transition. Plus I hate losing to Miracles, and from what I gather this has a decent Miracles matchup. What would be a good list to start with? I saw Sauce's list a few pages back, and it seems like that person has been playing it for quite some time and has had moderate success. The questions I was having as I was going through the main were a) why the one Khalni Garden and b) what is the MD Explosives mainly for? As far as the SB, I can tell you expected quite a bit of burn, which is something I want to be prepared for since a lot of people play it online.

I know its off topic but couldnt stand to say something :D

If u hate loosing vs miracles just slam 2-3 boseijus in your omni side and wreck them. Played them in sneak and was just to op.

Welcome to turbo eldrazi^^

[maCHOOga]

Plus I hate losing to Miracles, and from what I gather this has a decent Miracles matchup.

It's very difficult to loose to miracles with 12 post. It's happened to me once, but that's because I got blood mooned with the inferior mono green version.

Against miracles if they go turn 1 island, SDT. You literally can go turn one cloudpost and then laugh manically as they try to figure out how to beat you.

And don't worry, no one enjoys loosing to miracles.

[endqwerty]

I generally win even after a turn 3 blood moon

[lotushead666]

Played 2 daily events online today with the following list:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin

4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

4 Crop Rotation
4 Repeal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
3 Show and Tell
2 Moment's Peace

SB:
4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
1 Blue Elemental Blast

I didn't end up doing so well, but a lot of that was inexperience playing with the deck in general, and against Wasteland decks. I lost some pretty close games, and the majority of games I won were blowouts. Like I lost a game to elves because I decided not to give him enough respect to Craterhoof me on turn 3 and tapped out with a Rotation in hand, then died the following turn. I also lost a game to Deathblade because I was running low on time and forgot to precombat an Ulamog that would kill his only flying blocker for my lethal Emrakul. Lost to lands as well, and while the matchup felt horrible, you do have 4 Repeal, 4 Rotation for Karakas, and a Venser so it's hard for them to 20/20 you.

As far as the decklist goes, I liked most of it, but there were a couple things I could see changing. 1) is the MD Bog really necessary? It's obviously nice to have access to it, but you don't want it in every matchup, and I feel like the deck is pretty tight on colored sources, I did find myself more than once with a Titan in hand but no second green source. 2) how good is Venser? It felt like it was fine most of the time, but it seems very slow and you already have 4 Repeal so it's kind of redundant. Obviously the lock with Karakas is nice though. 3) 2 MD Moment's Peace seems unnecessary, probably just a metagame call. Also, if anyone has time I would greatly appreciate a small SBing guide, for the most part I can figure out what to cut, but I'm not sure if I should be bringing in FoWs more aggressively/if I should even have them in my SB. Any help would be awesome as I'm still new to this archetype, but I will definitely jam a ton of games tomorrow and try to get used to it some more.

[endqwerty]

1 yes. It doesn't hurt much and is easily useful. Drs. Snap caster. Etc. 2. He's fine but I cut him in favor of the engineered explosives plan. I really like explosives and moments peace against creature decks. Sideboard guides are on page 1. Rock lee was amazing and added tons of notes. They're current too. I'm not sure about the FoW plan as I don't use them myself. I'm on the mix of fluster, swan song, and mind break trap plan.

[Rock Lee]

Added in 3 more matchups on the first page.

Ichorid, Food Chain, and Lands.

I had thought those were all up already but apparently not. If you can think of any matchups I don't have listed, please throw them my way.


Also listed a caveat concerning how often I change the deck, and if you are getting into the deck and prefer a static list, that this might not be the best deck for you.

[lotushead666]

I appreciate the new SBing guides, and I've gone over them a couple times so that will definitely help. As far as constantly changing the deck, it makes sense that you change to adapt to your metagame and possibly try out some new things, I just wanted to find a nice stock list so I can get used to playing the deck, and after a couple of days I'll likely move some things around. I did have one card in mind that would have been nice to have access to yesterday: one Tabernacle. Likely in the SB, but it seems like a nice one of to have when you have Crop Rotation.

[Rock Lee]

I appreciate the new SBing guides, and I've gone over them a couple times so that will definitely help. As far as constantly changing the deck, it makes sense that you change to adapt to your metagame and possibly try out some new things, I just wanted to find a nice stock list so I can get used to playing the deck, and after a couple of days I'll likely move some things around. I did have one card in mind that would have been nice to have access to yesterday: one Tabernacle. Likely in the SB, but it seems like a nice one of to have when you have Crop Rotation.

Tabernacle will rise in likelihood of sideboarding based on these meta factors:

Rise in popularity of Goblins, Empty the Warrens, Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry, Merfolk.
Increased power of Elephant Grass. Should Deathrite get banned, this would become highly likely as a maindeck or sideboard card. The conjunction of Elephant Grass and Tabernacle is backbreaking to streamlined decks.
Should Armageddon/Cataclysm make more appearances than currently, this is the best response that isn't a counterspell.
If an exploration-Crucible/control-lands shell become stronger.


At the moment though, it is on the list of cards for strong consideration, but not currently on the list.

[Mockingbird]

So I've been cruising the Khans of Tarkir spoilers, and although I'm not entirely sure what to make of it yet, the card Dig Through Time grabbed my attention.

Dig Through Time
Instant

Delve

Look at the top seven cards of your library. Put two of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

I like the idea of a card that digs for answers that 1) we can pay for, and 2) with Delve, can also be cheapened.

It's not going to replace Brainstorm or Top because I will admit, it's a dead early game card, but as a 1 of or even two of seems like it could be useful.

[Rock Lee]

So I've been cruising the Khans of Tarkir spoilers, and although I'm not entirely sure what to make of it yet, the card Dig Through Time grabbed my attention.

Dig Through Time
Instant

Delve

Look at the top seven cards of your library. Put two of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

I like the idea of a card that digs for answers that 1) we can pay for, and 2) with Delve, can also be cheapened.

It's not going to replace Brainstorm or Top because I will admit, it's a dead early game card, but as a 1 of or even two of seems like it could be useful.

I saw it, and asked myself when it would be better than ponder. Couldn't come up with any times.

[nodahero]

Times when it is better than ponder? Any time you have a ton of mana? Or times when you need two cards at once .

I could see the value of it as a singleton for games that have gone long and you somehow failed to find/keep around your Eye of Ugin. Also when you just need to throw threats at an opponent until one sticks. While not often I can think of tons of times where knowing I could dig for two threats at once has provided me a few wins.

[maCHOOga]

Tabernacle will rise in likelihood of sideboarding based on these meta factors:

Rise in popularity of Goblins, Empty the Warrens, Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry, Merfolk.
Increased power of Elephant Grass. Should Deathrite get banned, this would become highly likely as a maindeck or sideboard card. The conjunction of Elephant Grass and Tabernacle is backbreaking to streamlined decks.
Should Armageddon/Cataclysm make more appearances than currently, this is the best response that isn't a counterspell.
If an exploration-Crucible/control-lands shell become stronger.


At the moment though, it is on the list of cards for strong consideration, but not currently on the list.

My meta is currently light on Combo and heavy on "fair" decks. Tabernacle is an Allstar against goblins, Merfolk, affinity and death and taxes. I personally don't think I would ever leave home without it at this point.

[TheBoozeCube]

Tabernacle will rise in likelihood of sideboarding based on these meta factors:

Rise in popularity of Goblins, Empty the Warrens, Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry, Merfolk.
Increased power of Elephant Grass. Should Deathrite get banned, this would become highly likely as a maindeck or sideboard card. The conjunction of Elephant Grass and Tabernacle is backbreaking to streamlined decks.
Should Armageddon/Cataclysm make more appearances than currently, this is the best response that isn't a counterspell.
If an exploration-Crucible/control-lands shell become stronger.


At the moment though, it is on the list of cards for strong consideration, but not currently on the list.

I'd also add RUG Delver (although not any other flavor Delver) to this list. If you drop Tabernacle early, they play so few lands that they are usually unable to play spells (other than Daze/FoW) if they want to keep their threats on the table. And if you can neutralize the tempo from their threats (i.e., Glimmerposts, Glacial Chasm, removal), you have plenty of time to set up without interference.

[Rock Lee]

I'd also add RUG Delver (although not any other flavor Delver) to this list. If you drop Tabernacle early, they play so few lands that they are usually unable to play spells (other than Daze/FoW) if they want to keep their threats on the table. And if you can neutralize the tempo from their threats (i.e., Glimmerposts, Glacial Chasm, removal), you have plenty of time to set up without interference.

I listed this already. tempo and rug are the same. I used to run both tabernacle and Elephant grass when RUG was THE deck to beat.

Times when it is better than ponder? Any time you have a ton of mana? Or times when you need two cards at once .

I could see the value of it as a singleton for games that have gone long and you somehow failed to find/keep around your Eye of Ugin. Also when you just need to throw threats at an opponent until one sticks. While not often I can think of tons of times where knowing I could dig for two threats at once has provided me a few wins.

When Eye of Ugin gets hymn'd away your next plan is to discard an eldrazi, but that withstanding, decks that run hymn have issues with 6/6 giants. So you transition. Getting 2 cards won't help with that. Now this card as a hate card against bug is very interesting and could merit some investigation. I still say impulse is a better card.

[203995014]

I generally agree with Rock Lee on Dig Through Time. At that point where you're casting it, you should probably be casting Primeval Titan and Kozilek instead. If you really want that extra hand manipulation you probably should be using Ponder instead. You shouldn't ever need 2 cards at once.

A small nitpick on the primer, you warned people in bold letters that the core is set in stone but I'm pretty sure Vesuva is no longer considered a 4-of and that people generally only run 2 eldrazi now.