I think..say welcome to swiftspear
BUGdelver
Delver
- I enjoy doing broken stuff. I don't care if you're having fun as long as I am -
I don't think so.
Yes, this guy _can_ be better than GG. The problem, however, is that you need to play additional spells pre-combat-damage-step. In a 4 Probe-Build this might be "okay", but you really don't want to tap out or waste your spells just to get the damage in GG would have provided anyway.
I was trying to think of the perks of this guy over GG.
He, at first, appeared to be decent in a 4 Stifle 4 Wasteland build that plays more to the style of RUG, but then it's slow damage that isn't useful. UR Delver that is essentially counter burn wants faster damage and he doesn't always deliver, especially in top deck mode. He also doesn't trade with many creatures as cleanly as GG does so... I'm not entirely sure.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
What you think about a version with 4 standstill?
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I played this deck with standstills... Sometimes with delver/GG turn one into turn 2 standstill, you just win. But sometimes it sits there in hand with an even or unfavorable board and you die a little on the inside. Too inconsistent.
I have also played both versions, I think the U/R Burn list is just that, a burn deck with play. I was never impressed with the deck when it didn't have the first 2 turns taken by playing Goblin Guides. For that reason, I much prefer the Delverstill version of the list. The 11th place at the last SCG open was piloted by my cousin and he felt it was very good in the current meta. We have some work to do with the SB, I think on the advice of Nedleeds, we will add a Crucible to the board as well as revisit our elves match. The deck gives you much more play, and is overall much more powerful in the wide spectrum of decks.Originally Posted by thefreakaccident
Soldier Stompy
I like this list with Standstills a lot.Creatures (9)
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 True-Name Nemesis
Lands (19)
2 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Spells (32)
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Forked Bolt
Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Pyroclasm
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
The fact that Swiftspear plays a lot better with Daze than Goblin Guide would make it possible to emphasize a Mana Denial Strategy and build a deck similar to RUG. While this might be just building a worse version of a successful deck - besides the advantages of being two colors - not using the graveyard could be good. This fact as well as the need for a lot of cheap cantrips to use with Young Pyromancer and Swiftspear could make the deck the perfect spot to abuse Treasure Cruise. Was thinking about some list like the following one:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Stifle
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Ponder
3x Treasure Cruise
4x Wasteland
4x Scalding tarn
4x Volcanic Island
2x Flooded Strand
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Island
1x Mountain
There are some additional cards to consider. Faithless Looting could fit right in, filling the graveyard and being two spells in one. Dack Fayden could be a nice 1-2 of, the 12 creatures being all human one could give cavern a shot, maybe even fitting Snapcaster in, despite it having a poor synergy with delve. What do you think?
Hey Everyone!
I decided to put a UR delver list together last night. I had always thought that all UR Delver lists played Goblin Guide. As I was looking through, it seems that lists either play Young Pyromancer or Guide and that the guide lists are more focused on Burn.
Is this always the case? I am sure there are pros an cons to each.
Playing both the swiftspear and pyromancer I think you should focus on playing proactive spells on your turn. Chain lightning seems a must and lava dart is something I think should be tested for the enormous synergy with the cards mentioned.
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Think of the number of turns you're going to spend durdling around with that list and the likely payoffs for all the durdling. Fill your GY for two effective plays and a lot of card selection in the process and then draw 3. Does that sound like a winning strategy?
The RUG lists have Goyf as a finisher once they've done their two turn durdle and disrupt routine. They have a 3/3 with shroud. This list has a bunch of guys that can be removed and no big hitter to finish with.
UR needs more burn than this. It needs Price of Progress to finish with. It has to have a way to end the game on turn 4 or 5 at the outside. Not that it has to do that every time but it needs to be able to do it.
I think the idea of the deck seams right, however, I am not positive that stifle would fit in a pyromancer-cantrip shell. Here we are looking to cantrip and deploy treats and make dudes. We cannot only hold mana for stifle, otherwise our creatures wont grow.
With that said, I am more inclined to -4stifle for 2 chain/2pierce
Also, i think 2 cruise should be enough.
I think you guys are right with stifle, it seems awkward. More gas in the form of Chain Lightning really seems like the way to go. Lava Dart I am not so sure about... Might be too cute. But then again you go through a lot of cards and therefore enough lands to sac. There's also synergy with looting, if you wanna go down that route.
Is Wasteland / Stifle / Pyro better then Price of Progress / Goblin Guide / Snapcaster ? Why try to play the mana denial game with Pyro and jam black for Cabal Therapy and DRS?
Soldier Stompy
I really like the UR lists that build like they are RUG except no Green. Stifle can be fantastic with the right build around it.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
Anyone have any thoughts about adding Monastery Swiftspear into a traditional burn list to put the deck at 9 one drops? Maybe cut a main deck ponder? I always feel like my best starts involve a one drop hitting the table.
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
2 Treasure Cruise
2 Rift Bolt
3 Daze
2 Fireblast
1 Forked Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
1 Price of Progress
4 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
1 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Flooded Strand
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 2 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Plateau
I goldfished this list a lot, and it actually looks promising. There is a lot of synergy (and some awakwardness with the basics and Daze/Fireblast) and the speed is ridiculous, especially decks without one mana removal (aka BUG) should have big problems with this.
Not sure if Daze belongs in the same list as Goblin Guide. Why not go all the way and cut it for even more burn?
In my experience, UR has two routes it can take. You can go the burn/aggro route or the tempo route.
In a tempo shell you want wasteland, pyromancer, daze, and probably stifle. You can also run snapcaster.
In a burn shell you want goblin guide, price of progress, snapcaster, and you specifically DON'T want stifle and wasteland because your main wincon is price of progress. This list also doesn't want daze because daze's main strength is its synergy with mana denial. Between 4 force, 2 spell pierce, and sometimes 2 spell snare I never really miss daze in these kind of lists. Daze is also bad here because you want to have lots of mana open for snapcaster mage.
The tempo shell is the "better" deck because it has good matchups against most of the meta. The issue here is that the only advantage that UR tempo has over RUG or BUG or 4 color delver is that it's cheaper to build. However, if your meta has a lot of BUG (especially shardless BUG), the burn list will absolutely stomp at local tourneys. I think in that regard, UR delver with price of progress is the only list worth running since there's no deck that does quite the same thing, so it actually fits a niche in the meta. Although you're trying to build RUG and you can't afford it yet, UR tempo is worth building since it plays the same.
Uh no it does not, I don't think you have seen what Young Pyromancer can do. In the right deck it is a better and faster finisher than Goyf anyway.
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