You know what they say, I'm just a steel town girl on a Saturday night..Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac
-Matt
I concur with everything you said pertaining to stifle; it is amazing right now in the present metagame and has so many tangible uses.
However, i categorically disagree with playing any number of spell snare. it is way too narrow and compared to spell pierce, daze, FOW and other better more versatile options, it is pretty subpar. With FOW, daze and spell pierce already in the deck, I would much rather have more burn or cantrips rather than playing any number of spell snare. Indeed, spell snare was good back in the day because there was a lot less playable options available and the metagame was significantly different back then as well.
If you peruse the deck lists of the major legacy events in the last three (3) to four (4) months where this deck has had a top 8 finish, 85-90% are not sporting any spell snare. In my view, there are better more versatile cards to play and the top pilots of this deck seem to agree with me in this particular regard.
To be the man, you gotta beat the man!
Depeding on the meta, Spell Snare can be way better than pierce. In an unkown field, pierce is likely the right call.
Oh, the Snare vs. Pierce argument? Joining in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...
We all know why is Snare worse than Pierce (or Daze) and we all know the usual situations when it's the other way around, like Snaring a Hymn with one mana free, or hitting the Goyf. While there are arguments why this really doesn't matter that often, I still think that Snare has applications that Pierce never has.
First of all, Snare is hardcounter no matter the turn.
Second, we must not run our creatures into a (threat of the) imminent death, which is especially annoying when they counter the Bolt that should have got rid of Goyf after it ate our Mongoose.
Also, unlike Pierce it can hit creatures that either change the game due to etb effect (SFM, Duress Guy) or by their continuous effect (Eidolon, Cannonist) or both (Strix). Yeah, we may kill them with burn, but I really dislike when clever guys forge the Jitte instead of BSkull and then simply lay it down with additional mana open and take over the game by equipping an unending stream of 1/x dudes.
Also, there are quite some spells that are really hard to get with Pierce (say Sylvan Library, CBalance, PoP or Jitte), as they are mid/lategame bombs and/or played with (Gaea's Cradle's) mana open. As such, they are hard to Daze even if we kept the Dazes in, which is pretty unlikely against say Miracles. And yep, REBs we've brought are good against CB, but far less daunting against e.g. RiP.
It's also pretty solid in some more obscure situations like when Storm pilots exchange spare ITs for more gas/Therapies, etc., but these situations hardly warrant a very special mention.
I know that the basic RUG theorem is to avoid mid-late game, but we cannot ignore the fact that it doesn't always happen. That Snare is live even when Daze/Pierce isn't, and that it hits spells that the latter cannot, shouldn't be overlooked. I for one will never leave without at least one, as I was severely punished the last time I played Snare-less build.
The overrepresentation of TC decks and similar abominations might be a reason to play more Pierces than usual, and maybe even cut the Snares at all - although I dislike to force my way through the most usual Legacy's 4/5 two-drop -, but I must be convinced first. And when we're at it:
Speaking of Treasure Cruise, and all the possible Cantrip Into Cantrip Into Cantrip decks that will emerge...
If I'd be in a mood to play a Durdle.dec that tries to break the Thought Scour - Treasure Cruise minicombo, I'd still be tempted to start with a three copies of Predict and be done with the thing. It's not like TC is completely without drawback and while it may be played foron turn 4+, Predict is always a cmc2 spell that may randomly stop an Entreat/Terminus and draw two, or at least it works well with mere Brainstorms, Ponders and also with some less thrilling Delver triggers like midgame Daze, a second Force to one already in hand, or Forked Bolt against creatureless decks.
Morevoer it has beautiful art in old frame. TC has none of it while eating from Mongoose's bowl.
If you really want to go deep, just run Vision Charm, Treasure Cruise, Tombstalker, and Phyrexian Dreadnought ;)
-Matt
is this getting playeD?
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
I'm playing it and I liked it so far, with my limited testing.
-Matt
Why dont people just substitute mongoose for DRS ? Burg tempo seams to be a great shell for cruise, and stifle would still be active in our old strategy.
Dunno. I just tried to imagine playing against it as bug control player.
For all guys that haven't tested TC, please do. Card is INSANE!
If we want to include Treasure Cruise I think Monastery Swiftspear is the best card to replace our dear mongoose (I want to continue using them) , even over Young Pyromancer (creature I dislike). It fits perfectly in a tempo strategy and would make our deck more resistant to graveyard hate.
This list took first place at the french Legacy Championship :
3 Volc
2 Trop
1 Taiga
8 Fetch
4 Waste
4 Mongoose
4 Delver
2 GSZ
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Ooze
4 Daze
4 Force
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Bolt
3 pierce
3 snare
2 dismember
2 forked bolt
SB :
2 submerge
3 pyroblast
2 fluster
2 surgical
2 R/T
2 destructive revelry
1 lib
1 Life from the loam
No cruise. Won in a heavy UR-Cruise Metagame. The level was very good (Lejay -on Painter- , Maxime Gilles -on Miracle- were there, among others), even if there were only 60 players.
Last edited by JosephK; 10-08-2014 at 01:30 PM.
Jemand musste Joseph K. verleumdet haben, denn ohne dass er etwas Böses getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet.
Looks really sweet! Seems good to have 6 Goose :p
Once the dust settles and the metagame adapts to TC, it wouldn't surprise me if it's basically just a 4x in UR decks, and maybe a 2x in other strategies. It looks like RUG can possibly just ignore the card for the most part, seeing as the overall strategy is mana denial. Who cares if they've drawn a bunch of cards if they cant even cast them? Or if they can't even kill your threats with said cards.
Main deck Scooze + GSZ is nice tech and something I've actually played around with before.
I play tested using vanilla RUG 54 +1 pithing, 3 pierce, 1 snare, 1 forked bolt against UR Cruise using PoP over Sulfuric Vortex and I went 4-2. There's very little they can do against a Goyf and when Mongoose hits Threshhold. Killing Young Pyromancer early or preventing it from hitting the board kills a big part of their plan to neutralize Goyf and Mongoose. Their Gitaxian Probes really put pressure on their life total and works to our benefit without a young pyromancer in play. Running 10 fetchlands also make Stifle very effective against their deck. A turn one swiftspear is pretty hard to race if we don't have Goyf down early though. I'm looking at my foil mongeese (?) wistfully though. I still think they have their day in the sun as our hard to remove threat against removal-heavy decks, and our mana-denial game plan still gives us free wins over most other decks.
It seems crazy and pretty nice, but I think this list is incomplete.
don´t like Spell Snare and I would include 4 Stifles
Last edited by SORO; 10-07-2014 at 11:32 AM.
4 Brainstorm and 1 SB card (?)
Fixed :)
Jemand musste Joseph K. verleumdet haben, denn ohne dass er etwas Böses getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet.
Actually, that's not bad. Vision Charm is kinda hotsauce now.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I still dislike the new trend of adding more and more do-nothings into the deck, it's not like Ponder into Vision Charm into Thought Scour into Treasure Cruise will move oyu any further if you'll draw Vision Charms and Thought Scours only. But yeah, I'm open to discussion, moreover the Dreadnought builds might be pretty different form the usual 54RUG builds.
But I'd fear to DNought in any Decay meta... and there's no other meta afaik.
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